RE: BMW M3 (E46) wagon: You Know You Want To

[Kitchski]

blade7 said:

How many have you driven on snow, ice, wet mud?

Why would I?

Besides, in those conditions, my wife's Saxo would be superior due to the skinnier tyres and lower mass. Your point is pointless.

An E46 M3 does not need 4wd. It's a much better car for not having it, with all the additional weight and inertia that it brings. It's not a bloody Land Rover, it's a driver's car. If it had 500bhp, then maybe, but it doesn't. It has sub-300lbft of torque, and the majority of the grunt comes in at the higher parts of the rev range. Any failure to handle that is down to the driver, not the car.

I'm not an M3 fanboy by the way. I built one, sure, but only because I was paid to. They are good cars though.

[blade7]

Not as pointless as spending 800 hours building it when an RS4 is better.. Though you got paid to do it so perhaps you're biased.

[Stuart-t4pvm]

I had this combo of E46 estate, M3 running gear all the way through with a few thoughtful upgrades and enjoyed 6 years and 80,000 miles of ownership.
A great Q-car - sad to see it go but it was getting on and a very hard act to follow.
Also had winter tyres for it and that made it an absolute joy to drive when the white stuff descended!

[blade7]

Stuart-t4pvm said:

Also had winter tyres

[Herr Schnell]

blade7 said:

Stuart-t4pvm said:

Also had winter tyres

The same could easily be said about your "BMW will be lethal in the wet/mud/snow" post.

And to add to Stuart's point here's a photo of mine after the recent bad weather. It's been in daily use for the last six years come rain, shine or snow and it hasn't even killed me once.

[blade7]

Herr Schnell said:

The same could easily be said about your "BMW will be lethal in the wet/mud/snow" post.

Quote is a figment of your imagination.

[jon-yprpe]

blade7 said:

Quote is a figment of your imagination.

Isn't the point that no-one's really sure of why you are saying an RS4 would be better in the snow/ice/mud and implying this is all a pointless exercise?

So what? You could post that in any thread about any RWD car ever made.

I love the fact someone has created something so unusual and beautiful. I'd imagine you'd be into this conversion for around £60k inc the cars - I genuinely think I'd gave this over the very boring F80 M3 I had.

[matthias73]

blade7 said:

Not as pointless as spending 800 hours building it when an RS4 is better.. Though you got paid to do it so perhaps you're biased.

Better at what?

I'd suggest the raison d'etre for any car that is superfluously fast is to provide entertainment and occasion, which is purely subjective.

Simply the delight of creating and owning something like this would be fantastic.

[blade7]

matthias73 said:

Better at what?

Most things, and then there's owning it and an M3 Coupe for a similar cost to the subject car.

Edited by blade7 on Wednesday 3rd January 22:36

[Tuvra]

[redacted]

[matthias73]

blade7 said:

matthias73 said:

Better at what?

Most things, and then there's owning it and an M3 Coupe for a similar cost to the subject car.

Edited by blade7 on Wednesday 3rd January 22:36

You completely missed my point.

[anonymous-user]

matthias73 said:

blade7 said:

matthias73 said:

Better at what?

Most things, and then there's owning it and an M3 Coupe for a similar cost to the subject car.

Edited by blade7 on Wednesday 3rd January 22:36

You completely missed my point.

The point is clearly a distant dot to him.

[gt69]

I have both RS2 and an E46 M3, so I might offer up a useful viewpoint, if somewhat singular. If I were to go the E46 Touring route, I'd either keep the RS2 or get a knockabout family car my other half would feel comfortable with either of us driving with the family in rough winter weather - for the rare occasion that is needed. The E46 would be a great family wagon apart from in rough conditions/muddy carpark (such things come around quite often when you have a family) - there are times when you don't want the family wagon to be a sports car, and at those times I'm grateful the RS2 is so surefooted - plus keeping revs below 3.3k it's like an ancient 4WD Audi 80, completely benign. So why bother with the E46? It would keep the miles off the RS2, and (personal circumstances) my wife could drive the SMG version - it would give us an interesting family car we can both drive, and such cars are pretty rare. OK, the last RS4 might combine both in DSG form, but it's just a bit too clinical for my liking, plus it has bad manners, as anyone who has driven one down a high st will know.

So I don't think as a family truck the E46 M3 is an absolute all-rounder, but it does offer something over RS Audis, particularly later ones. E46 M3s look great and are very lovely to drive, plus a "Touring" version just makes for an interesting prospect - I absolutely get the appeal, even if there are a couple of shortcomings.

[blade7]

blade7 said:

Great as the M3 engine is, the 2wd traction in slippery conditions is er challenging.

For the hard of thinking, and reading apparently

[DLR_1977]

F30 330d with a remap. More power, more torque, better driving experience, better reliability, better economy, better better better.. etc..

Or am i talking nonsense?...

Torque IS a wonderful thing.

[Patrick Bateman]

DLR_1977 said:

F30 330d with a remap. More power, more torque, better driving experience, better reliability, better economy, better better better.. etc..

Or am i talking nonsense?...

Torque IS a wonderful thing.

What's better driving experience based on?

More power and more torque do not necessarily a better car make. And for enjoyment, there will be no contest between an S54 and a 6 cylinder diesel.

[rallycross]

There is something about really fast estate cars that I love, especially if they don't look fast.

There was one of these on a track day I did at Thruxton and it was very quick but looked like a regular 330 - till you opened the bonnet to find it was an M3.

[Leins]

DLR_1977 said:

F30 330d with a remap. More power, more torque, better driving experience, better reliability, better economy, better better better.. etc..

Or am i talking nonsense?...

Torque IS a wonderful thing.

Not sure where "better driving experience" comes from. Obviously all slightly subjective, but strikes me as a bit of a strange opinion having experienced ownership of BMW Ms & diesels

I'll concede some of the other points though

[DLR_1977]

Leins said:

DLR_1977 said:

F30 330d with a remap. More power, more torque, better driving experience, better reliability, better economy, better better better.. etc..

Or am i talking nonsense?...

Torque IS a wonderful thing.

Not sure where "better driving experience" comes from. Obviously all slightly subjective, but strikes me as a bit of a strange opinion having experienced ownership of BMW Ms & diesels

I'll concede some of the other points though

I suppose what I should have said is that, in my opinion, the torque in the N57 is more easily accessible for a larger portion of the time spent driving the car than the power & torque developed by the S54 motor that I assume would be used in the swap into the Touring shell.

S54 Motor
Power : 252 kW; (338 hp) @ 7900 rpm[26]
Torque: 365 N⋅m (269 lb⋅ft) @ 4900 rpm[26]

N57D30O1 Motor
Power : 190 kW (255 bhp) @ 4,000 rpm
Torque : 560 N⋅m (413 lb⋅ft) @ 1,500-3,000 rpm

So, a significant hike in torque for the diesel (144 lb.ft) at a much lower rpm and an advantage for the S54 of 83bhp but at a rather attention grabbing 7900rpm!

The power & torque curves plotted on the same axis for both motors would paint a better picture than words alone but, certainly for the style of driving I do on a day to day basis, the ability to access torque at low speeds gives both overtaking ability and the option for some tail-out action at will!

If you're considering tracking the car however (and perhaps a touring shell might not be the best option to go for here) the petrol motor would give the stronger performance provided you keep it 'on the boil'

[Patrick Bateman]

That's all a given but you don't need to track a car to prefer one engine over the other in terms of enjoyment.