RE: PH Footnote: Mid-Engined Aston Martins
Discussion
DS240 said:
GranCab said:
can't remember said:
Palmer has already said that the new vehicle, due to arrive in 2021, will be a rival for the Ferrari 488 GTB, the car he considers to be the benchmark in the sector.
This is all sorts of wrong. A rival for what will be close to a decade old car, that's not even the market leader now. I hope this was just a clumsy quote.
488 will be SIX years old in 2021 .... This is all sorts of wrong. A rival for what will be close to a decade old car, that's not even the market leader now. I hope this was just a clumsy quote.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_488
... and will probably be replaced by the "499" that year
You have to start benchmarking somewhere, plus it won’t be the only car used for that purpose. For 2021, work will be starting now.
In addition, it’s hard to benchmark it against a future Ferrari not released yet!
Reading the angry responses pointing out how old the 488 will be by then..
DURR! no on one knows what the mid-engine'd Ferrari will be called in 6 years time...ffs.
ut from that piece we know that whatever it will be called it is intended to compete in that 'sector'....
Also, (separately) I agree, the whole branded copy-paste-corporate-face stuff is massively over done these days. There is more to a cars' design that just the grille and lights that can and should define it. The roads are littered with (and sadly have been for decades now) cars that are almost indistinguishable until you get round the front.
Corvette is going mid engined
911 has moved that way
Ttal sense to make a car...a high performance car (not some crappy e-SUV) that keeps Aston relevant.
bearing in mind that they're fast becoming badge engineered Mercs
can't remember said:
Palmer has already said that the new vehicle, due to arrive in 2021, will be a rival for the Ferrari 488 GTB, the car he considers to be the benchmark in the sector.
This is all sorts of wrong. A rival for what will be close to a decade old car, that's not even the market leader now. I hope this was just a clumsy quote.
It will be 6 years old. And they can hardly name rivals that haven't been created yet. This is all sorts of wrong. A rival for what will be close to a decade old car, that's not even the market leader now. I hope this was just a clumsy quote.
PunterCam said:
Anyone else just find everything on sale massively dull at the moment? A mid engined Aston - it'll be exactly like every other mid engined car of similar size and power.
Boring engines that make boring sounds, automatic gearboxes, total usability of even the most "extreme" cars, power that has long since passed the point of usable (and interest)... Half the bloody things seem to have the same engine, or gearbox. There is no sense of occasion to any of it - it's fake. Pops and bangs from the exhausts.. Give me a f
king break. Funny how they didn't do that 10 years ago.
The sad thing is, people seem to think it's good.
The market is bland, and it's primed for someone to do something fantastic. Lotus should design their own straight 6 naturally aspirated engine, and stick it in an Evora sized front engined GT.
It's a rare occasion when I agree with absolutely every word of another PHer's argument. The Lotus you describe sounds like it'd be a modern-day Big Healey... bring it on! For that matter, a new Aston Martin 'big six' would be welcome... N/A, manual, hydraulic steering, LSD, back to basics. Maybe base it on the new M-B straight six with 48v electrics, mild hybrid, a bit of brake regen with torque fill off the starter (if I've understood the system correctly?), but keep it fundamentally a driver's car with character and sound to match.Boring engines that make boring sounds, automatic gearboxes, total usability of even the most "extreme" cars, power that has long since passed the point of usable (and interest)... Half the bloody things seem to have the same engine, or gearbox. There is no sense of occasion to any of it - it's fake. Pops and bangs from the exhausts.. Give me a f
king break. Funny how they didn't do that 10 years ago. The sad thing is, people seem to think it's good.
The market is bland, and it's primed for someone to do something fantastic. Lotus should design their own straight 6 naturally aspirated engine, and stick it in an Evora sized front engined GT.
Also, if AM want a supercar, or a brawny V8 GT, they've got a rather good quad-cam V8 in their back catalogue, which in the V8 Zagato made 432bhp @ 6000rpm on a 10.2:1 compression ratio... that could be revived and modernised... with the stock 85mm stroke, it could be made to rev to 9000rpm... which should be good for 600bhp with room to spare. A mild hybrid/electric supercharger setup could help with emissions and power.
If they were going to go down the platform-sharing route with M-B AMG, well, there's always the M156/159. They made a big mistake when they discontinued that motor in favour of the M177 - and I understand the racing cars still use the old 6.2 instead of the 4.0 TT...
AER said:
If they're going to break new ground, then I suggest it should be a longitudinal mounted V4, turbocharged and with a hot-vee.
It's a package that can be short, lightweight, mounted low, and sound interestingly different as well as offering good fuel consumption and emissions potential through low friction and being packaging friendly to electrification and hybridization.
It's no wonder that it's a configuration chosen by Porsche for the 919. AML should pinch the configuration as a market leader in productionsville before anyone else gets their hands on it.
I don't think there is any chance of a 4 pot and honestly I don't think they should. One of the biggest complains about the new Ford GT is the V6. We all know what happened to the XJ220. Yes, that was the 90's but still. People have certain expectations when it comes to expensive supercars. It's not all about the speed for the people making the checks.;)It's a package that can be short, lightweight, mounted low, and sound interestingly different as well as offering good fuel consumption and emissions potential through low friction and being packaging friendly to electrification and hybridization.
It's no wonder that it's a configuration chosen by Porsche for the 919. AML should pinch the configuration as a market leader in productionsville before anyone else gets their hands on it.
mjk1 said:
Hope it looks something like this and not the picture in the article.
The problem is that these look dated today. In 2021 it will look 20 years old. They have to keep with trends. I also like classic designed cars. But they are not a safe bet. These days most companies play safe. Hence why every car look similar to one another.herebebeasties said:
I think there's room in the market for something beautiful. The V8 Vantage proved as much and they've basically been building derivatives of it looks-wise as their business model ever since.
Everything else out there at the moment is fast and capable and all the rest, but beautiful? I can't think when the last mid-engined supercar came out that I'd call that. F355, probably.
They're all ridiculously overly fast and large for exploiting on the roads already, so why not tone all the tech and aero down a bit and make a genuinely desirable car based on more than just how it compares to a Porsche 918's Nürburgring lap time? An anti-Senna, if you will.
I'm not sure I would say the F355 was the last pretty car. You mention the 918 for example. I think that's pretty too and I don't even like Porsches that much. There are several supercars which look very good today IMO. Everything else out there at the moment is fast and capable and all the rest, but beautiful? I can't think when the last mid-engined supercar came out that I'd call that. F355, probably.
They're all ridiculously overly fast and large for exploiting on the roads already, so why not tone all the tech and aero down a bit and make a genuinely desirable car based on more than just how it compares to a Porsche 918's Nürburgring lap time? An anti-Senna, if you will.
Quickmoose said:
Glad you posted that.
Reading the angry responses pointing out how old the 488 will be by then..
DURR! no on one knows what the mid-engine'd Ferrari will be called in 6 years time...ffs.
ut from that piece we know that whatever it will be called it is intended to compete in that 'sector'....
Also, (separately) I agree, the whole branded copy-paste-corporate-face stuff is massively over done these days. There is more to a cars' design that just the grille and lights that can and should define it. The roads are littered with (and sadly have been for decades now) cars that are almost indistinguishable until you get round the front.
Corvette is going mid engined
911 has moved that way
Ttal sense to make a car...a high performance car (not some crappy e-SUV) that keeps Aston relevant.
bearing in mind that they're fast becoming badge engineered Mercs
OK, the 911 has moved the engine a few bits forward. But they are not going mid engine, yet. Reading the angry responses pointing out how old the 488 will be by then..
DURR! no on one knows what the mid-engine'd Ferrari will be called in 6 years time...ffs.
ut from that piece we know that whatever it will be called it is intended to compete in that 'sector'....
Also, (separately) I agree, the whole branded copy-paste-corporate-face stuff is massively over done these days. There is more to a cars' design that just the grille and lights that can and should define it. The roads are littered with (and sadly have been for decades now) cars that are almost indistinguishable until you get round the front.
Corvette is going mid engined
911 has moved that way
Ttal sense to make a car...a high performance car (not some crappy e-SUV) that keeps Aston relevant.
bearing in mind that they're fast becoming badge engineered Mercs
And about AM, is it really that bad with the MB sharing? I'm not really keeping up with them. I know about the engines and some of the interior stuff. But is it really becoming that bad? Maybe MB will just buy AM in the future. Pity that soon we might have no real English cars anymore. What real British engines are still in production?
I think that is a mistake from AM. If I was out shopping for an Aston I would go for the older ones just to get the engine. Even though they are based on a Ford engine. But still enough Aston development and bits.
This is basically the reason I have no interest in any modern Lotus.
Edited by SPKR on Tuesday 16th January 00:00
SPKR said:
AER said:
If they're going to break new ground, then I suggest it should be a longitudinal mounted V4, turbocharged and with a hot-vee.
It's a package that can be short, lightweight, mounted low, and sound interestingly different as well as offering good fuel consumption and emissions potential through low friction and being packaging friendly to electrification and hybridization.
It's no wonder that it's a configuration chosen by Porsche for the 919. AML should pinch the configuration as a market leader in productionsville before anyone else gets their hands on it.
I don't think there is any chance of a 4 pot and honestly I don't think they should. One of the biggest complains about the new Ford GT is the V6. We all know what happened to the XJ220. Yes, that was the 90's but still. People have certain expectations when it comes to expensive supercars. It's not all about the speed for the people making the checks.;)It's a package that can be short, lightweight, mounted low, and sound interestingly different as well as offering good fuel consumption and emissions potential through low friction and being packaging friendly to electrification and hybridization.
It's no wonder that it's a configuration chosen by Porsche for the 919. AML should pinch the configuration as a market leader in productionsville before anyone else gets their hands on it.
SPKR said:
I don't think there is any chance of a 4 pot and honestly I don't think they should. One of the biggest complains about the new Ford GT is the V6. We all know what happened to the XJ220. Yes, that was the 90's but still. People have certain expectations when it comes to expensive supercars. It's not all about the speed for the people making the checks.;)
Then again the GT is sold out several times over and the XJ220 is being appreciated again, to say nothing of the success of the 919 in the WEC. Though one factor is likely to be all those people who wanted a Valkyrie but will never have one eying the 10k rpm V12 with great envy. If they put out something for the Boxter-Cayman niche a V4 based on the aforementioned V12 would be perfect methinks. Though perhaps a hot V might eat into any potential storage space you might have freed up with the shorter block.
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