BMW 123D - Advice Please
Discussion
I ran one for a few years and loved it, cracking car for a diesel.
Word of advice though - get the auto. I had a manual and the final drive in the gearbox is shorter than the 120d so I was constantly changing gear due to not only the shorter ratios but also the shorter rev-range. And then in top at 'motorway speeds' (ahem) it was sitting around 3k+ rpm. Not great for fuel economy or noise!
The base stereo is s
t - I lasted about a week before I bought a set of the Pro speakers and fitted them. Oh, and if you like misbehaving on wet roundabouts, it chews through rear pads.
Word of advice though - get the auto. I had a manual and the final drive in the gearbox is shorter than the 120d so I was constantly changing gear due to not only the shorter ratios but also the shorter rev-range. And then in top at 'motorway speeds' (ahem) it was sitting around 3k+ rpm. Not great for fuel economy or noise!
The base stereo is s
t - I lasted about a week before I bought a set of the Pro speakers and fitted them. Oh, and if you like misbehaving on wet roundabouts, it chews through rear pads.I bought a 57 plate pre-reg 123d in January 2008.
Kept it for 6 and a half years and 81K miles and it was generally a great car - plenty of grunt but very economical.
It needed a new "AGM" battery after 4 years (which needs coding to the OBD so cost over £250) and a starter motor after 6 years (another £600) - so if he buys one tell him to turn the stop/start off every time he drives it!
I sold mine after reading about the cam-chain issues (Google will help with that) before BMW started the "Quality Enhancement" programme - I'm not sure of the current status of that.
And as someone said the gearing is cr*p - probably done to make the 123d seem much quicker than the 120d, but it doesn't help with motorway cruising or economy.
With the benefit of hindsight I'd go for a 120d and the 20bhp upgrade BMW offered!
Kept it for 6 and a half years and 81K miles and it was generally a great car - plenty of grunt but very economical.
It needed a new "AGM" battery after 4 years (which needs coding to the OBD so cost over £250) and a starter motor after 6 years (another £600) - so if he buys one tell him to turn the stop/start off every time he drives it!
I sold mine after reading about the cam-chain issues (Google will help with that) before BMW started the "Quality Enhancement" programme - I'm not sure of the current status of that.
And as someone said the gearing is cr*p - probably done to make the 123d seem much quicker than the 120d, but it doesn't help with motorway cruising or economy.
With the benefit of hindsight I'd go for a 120d and the 20bhp upgrade BMW offered!
I ran a new 123D M/Sport coupe for 2 years.
The good:
Incredibly effective thing and really quite quick, hand timed to 100 under 16 seconds and terrific mid-range acceleration, I was always going faster than I thought, a friend once drove while I passengered, I knew we were making progress, felt like 110 or so but when I glanced at the speedo it was showing 140.
The first time I drove it in the countryside I came up behind a tail of half a dozen cars doing 55, I overtook them on a long straight, I didn't even change out of 6th gear but when I pulled back in I was doing 120.
Well built car, simple yet thoughtful ergonomically correct interior, typically nice low BMW driving position, kind of purposeful without being aggressive, soothing when needed.
The bad:
Poor economy, blame the ever boosting turbos, low gearing doesn't help either, damping too soft when really pushing on, it never truly lit my fire, the speedo showed high numbers long before my heart rate did.
Oh, and very rattly at cold idle.
Had zero issues but I bought new and only travelled a few thousand miles, you'll get more help from others about reliability.
Accomplished car rather than exciting but don't let that put you off, I really liked it.
The good:
Incredibly effective thing and really quite quick, hand timed to 100 under 16 seconds and terrific mid-range acceleration, I was always going faster than I thought, a friend once drove while I passengered, I knew we were making progress, felt like 110 or so but when I glanced at the speedo it was showing 140.
The first time I drove it in the countryside I came up behind a tail of half a dozen cars doing 55, I overtook them on a long straight, I didn't even change out of 6th gear but when I pulled back in I was doing 120.
Well built car, simple yet thoughtful ergonomically correct interior, typically nice low BMW driving position, kind of purposeful without being aggressive, soothing when needed.
The bad:
Poor economy, blame the ever boosting turbos, low gearing doesn't help either, damping too soft when really pushing on, it never truly lit my fire, the speedo showed high numbers long before my heart rate did.
Oh, and very rattly at cold idle.
Had zero issues but I bought new and only travelled a few thousand miles, you'll get more help from others about reliability.
Accomplished car rather than exciting but don't let that put you off, I really liked it.
SebringMan said:
I like them too but the N47 engine issues would put me off unless the car had evidence of an oil changes carried out in between BMW's schedules.
The idea otherwise has always appealed to me.
I suppose I could ask about the oil changes. I do mine myself so I could probably do them inbetween. The idea otherwise has always appealed to me.
Funk said:
I ran one for a few years and loved it, cracking car for a diesel.
Word of advice though - get the auto. I had a manual and the final drive in the gearbox is shorter than the 120d so I was constantly changing gear due to not only the shorter ratios but also the shorter rev-range. And then in top at 'motorway speeds' (ahem) it was sitting around 3k+ rpm. Not great for fuel economy or noise!
The base stereo is st - I lasted about a week before I bought a set of the Pro speakers and fitted them. Oh, and if you like misbehaving on wet roundabouts, it chews through rear pads.
He is used to a manual, but I suppose he could try an auto. He was looking at an M Sport or a Sport Plus, how do I tell if these have the upgraded stereo?Word of advice though - get the auto. I had a manual and the final drive in the gearbox is shorter than the 120d so I was constantly changing gear due to not only the shorter ratios but also the shorter rev-range. And then in top at 'motorway speeds' (ahem) it was sitting around 3k+ rpm. Not great for fuel economy or noise!
The base stereo is s
t - I lasted about a week before I bought a set of the Pro speakers and fitted them. Oh, and if you like misbehaving on wet roundabouts, it chews through rear pads.rdb85 said:
He is used to a manual, but I suppose he could try an auto. He was looking at an M Sport or a Sport Plus, how do I tell if these have the upgraded stereo?
The manual box really, really doesn't suit the nature of the 123d's diesel delivery and ratios. I'd strongly encourage him to go the auto route or look at a manual 120d with a remap if he really wants to stir his own gearbox that much.'Business' audio is the standard crap. Look for Professional hifi - it upgrades the head unit, better speakers in the front doors (at least, may upgrade the rears as well), adds tweeters by the A-pillars by the door mirrors and I think an (Alpine) amp in the boot. I don't know whether the Harmon Kardon or Logic7 upgrade was available on older ones - if it says any of those things, you're good to go. Mine also had a pair of subs under the front seats (standard) but in later years BMW cut costs by reducing that to just one.
I had a 57 plate 123 coupe, remapped (270bhp) Bilstein suspension, went really well.
Don't bother with an auto if you are an enthusiastic driver, they are a bit rubbish unless you use a modern 8 speed zf box. I had a 120d auto as a loan car last week while my Exige was being serviced, it was really dull.
My car had a recall on the cam chain tensioner which I think sorts the inherent issues, would be worth checking whether this has been done on any car you are considering.
Don't bother with an auto if you are an enthusiastic driver, they are a bit rubbish unless you use a modern 8 speed zf box. I had a 120d auto as a loan car last week while my Exige was being serviced, it was really dull.
My car had a recall on the cam chain tensioner which I think sorts the inherent issues, would be worth checking whether this has been done on any car you are considering.
I bought a 123 M sport manual in 2008 as a DD. Lovely little car. Drove the door handles off of it for 8 years until the engine suffered a catastrophic failure... it had covered 250,000 miles though so it can be forgiven.
Out of the box it’s a decent little semi sports coupe. Responds well to a remap and will return high 40’s mpg. If you are looking for an engaging drive, I’d go for a manual
Out of the box it’s a decent little semi sports coupe. Responds well to a remap and will return high 40’s mpg. If you are looking for an engaging drive, I’d go for a manual
Drivers Republic drove one round the Ring in companion with a 350Z
https://youtu.be/WQn0HH9G8vU
https://youtu.be/WQn0HH9G8vU
Edited by s m on Tuesday 16th January 20:18
s m said:
Drivers Republic drove one round the Ring in companion with a 350Z
https://youtu.be/WQn0HH9G8vU
That’s superb
https://youtu.be/WQn0HH9G8vU
That’s superb
Edited by s m on Tuesday 16th January 20:18
Entirely irrelevant to making a decision but Evo did a nice 8 page spread on my 123d a few years ago comparing it against (of all things) an E30 M3, including me hand modelling on the M3 gear shifter photo! 
http://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/1-series/12225/evolutions...
I also sold up a few years ago when the cam chain issues started to become a bit too frequent for my liking but I had it for 5 years / 60k miles before that with no engine issues at all. The one issue I did have in my ownership was an intermittent but gradually worsening juddery clutch when pulling away. It's quite common on manual diesel BMWs of that era and can be a hint that either the clutch plates and/or dual mass flywheel will need some attention sooner rather than later. Mine ended up having two clutches in it under warranty, the first including a dual mass flywheel replacement at approx 25k, the second clutch another 40k later which is not something you want to be doing out of your own pocket. TBH it was liveable-with most of the time and could be temporarily rectified for a week or two by doing the classic test drive clutch test holding the car on the handbrake whilst bringing the clutch up to the bite point for a few seconds to clean up the plates, but obviously you can't do that too often!
Overall though they're good little cars other than the N47 cam chain concerns. The engine has a very wide useable power band compared to normal diesels (due to the twin turbos that cater for different rev ranges) so feels almost petrol like in it's delivery. I used to get mid 40s mpg out of it on a 20 mile each way A road commute and although 1st gear was certainly too short and a bit of a pain when pulling away with gusto I never found the rest of the ratios particularly short geared due to the aforementioned wide power band. Having said that I didn't do much motorway driving in mine so if it's a long distance cruiser your brother needs then either the auto or a 120d probably would be better.
http://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/1-series/12225/evolutions...
I also sold up a few years ago when the cam chain issues started to become a bit too frequent for my liking but I had it for 5 years / 60k miles before that with no engine issues at all. The one issue I did have in my ownership was an intermittent but gradually worsening juddery clutch when pulling away. It's quite common on manual diesel BMWs of that era and can be a hint that either the clutch plates and/or dual mass flywheel will need some attention sooner rather than later. Mine ended up having two clutches in it under warranty, the first including a dual mass flywheel replacement at approx 25k, the second clutch another 40k later which is not something you want to be doing out of your own pocket. TBH it was liveable-with most of the time and could be temporarily rectified for a week or two by doing the classic test drive clutch test holding the car on the handbrake whilst bringing the clutch up to the bite point for a few seconds to clean up the plates, but obviously you can't do that too often!
Overall though they're good little cars other than the N47 cam chain concerns. The engine has a very wide useable power band compared to normal diesels (due to the twin turbos that cater for different rev ranges) so feels almost petrol like in it's delivery. I used to get mid 40s mpg out of it on a 20 mile each way A road commute and although 1st gear was certainly too short and a bit of a pain when pulling away with gusto I never found the rest of the ratios particularly short geared due to the aforementioned wide power band. Having said that I didn't do much motorway driving in mine so if it's a long distance cruiser your brother needs then either the auto or a 120d probably would be better.
LocoBlade said:
Entirely irrelevant to making a decision but Evo did a nice 8 page spread on my 123d a few years ago comparing it against (of all things) an E30 M3, including me hand modelling on the M3 gear shifter photo!
http://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/1-series/12225/evolutions...
I also sold up a few years ago when the cam chain issues started to become a bit too frequent for my liking but I had it for 5 years / 60k miles before that with no engine issues at all. The one issue I did have in my ownership was an intermittent but gradually worsening juddery clutch when pulling away. It's quite common on manual diesel BMWs of that era and can be a hint that either the clutch plates and/or dual mass flywheel will need some attention sooner rather than later. Mine ended up having two clutches in it under warranty, the first including a dual mass flywheel replacement at approx 25k, the second clutch another 40k later which is not something you want to be doing out of your own pocket. TBH it was liveable-with most of the time and could be temporarily rectified for a week or two by doing the classic test drive clutch test holding the car on the handbrake whilst bringing the clutch up to the bite point for a few seconds to clean up the plates, but obviously you can't do that too often!
Overall though they're good little cars other than the N47 cam chain concerns. The engine has a very wide useable power band compared to normal diesels (due to the twin turbos that cater for different rev ranges) so feels almost petrol like in it's delivery. I used to get mid 40s mpg out of it on a 20 mile each way A road commute and although 1st gear was certainly too short and a bit of a pain when pulling away with gusto I never found the rest of the ratios particularly short geared due to the aforementioned wide power band. Having said that I didn't do much motorway driving in mine so if it's a long distance cruiser your brother needs then either the auto or a 120d probably would be better.
Thanks for that I will pass it on. He does about 35 miles a day. So I think it should be okay for him. Much less on the weekends but it should be okay for him. I think he mentioned that he wants to try an auto and a manual just to make his mind up. I suppose he can ask the dealer or seller whether the cam chain has been done? Is that the correct term? http://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/1-series/12225/evolutions...
I also sold up a few years ago when the cam chain issues started to become a bit too frequent for my liking but I had it for 5 years / 60k miles before that with no engine issues at all. The one issue I did have in my ownership was an intermittent but gradually worsening juddery clutch when pulling away. It's quite common on manual diesel BMWs of that era and can be a hint that either the clutch plates and/or dual mass flywheel will need some attention sooner rather than later. Mine ended up having two clutches in it under warranty, the first including a dual mass flywheel replacement at approx 25k, the second clutch another 40k later which is not something you want to be doing out of your own pocket. TBH it was liveable-with most of the time and could be temporarily rectified for a week or two by doing the classic test drive clutch test holding the car on the handbrake whilst bringing the clutch up to the bite point for a few seconds to clean up the plates, but obviously you can't do that too often!
Overall though they're good little cars other than the N47 cam chain concerns. The engine has a very wide useable power band compared to normal diesels (due to the twin turbos that cater for different rev ranges) so feels almost petrol like in it's delivery. I used to get mid 40s mpg out of it on a 20 mile each way A road commute and although 1st gear was certainly too short and a bit of a pain when pulling away with gusto I never found the rest of the ratios particularly short geared due to the aforementioned wide power band. Having said that I didn't do much motorway driving in mine so if it's a long distance cruiser your brother needs then either the auto or a 120d probably would be better.
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