A Case Study in Being a Bellend
Discussion
Krikkit said:
Bikes are a different kettle of fish altogether, but I can't believe it's hard work to nudge the lever one detent when sitting for a while.
To be clear I'm not saying that you should do it at every stop, but at a level crossing or a particularly long set of traffic lights... Why not? Even just to relieve you from having to keep the pedal pressed (assuming no auto hold) until the traffic starts moving again.
Nah at a crossing I wouldn't hold the brake (I did say that), but I'm struggling to think of another instance save for an accident. I really just see my inconvenience at doing this routinely thousands of times a year (that's not an exaggeration), being far greater than what is caused by my brake light, an issue that as road user, has never bothered me. Then again I tend to leave about a metre of visible tarmac when I stop behind a car, so perhaps that helps?To be clear I'm not saying that you should do it at every stop, but at a level crossing or a particularly long set of traffic lights... Why not? Even just to relieve you from having to keep the pedal pressed (assuming no auto hold) until the traffic starts moving again.
Nah, no autobrake on mine. It creeps. There is a "hold" button, but in all honesty I can't be arsed, I never even knew what it did until now. I do about 20K/year and I try and be a very considerate road user, but I bought a spackerbox so I could reduce the driving burden as much as possible, and this really seems unnecessary to me.
If I had a superbright rear LED set then maybe I'd reconsider, but currently if someone got out and asked me to start using neutral, it would be a flat "no, sorry, do you have sunglasses perhaps?" in response from me.
hyphen said:
Why are you so close up? Learn the "Tyres and tarmac" rule 
To be fair, people tend to bunch up to allow more cars to line up. If everyone maintained the proper distance we'd have tailbacks for miles.Judging by the OP's photo, the Audi's tail-lights are no brighter than the railway signals... are we all at risk of being blinded by railway signals?
I think the big issue here is that it took 10 minutes for a train to pass. No doubt some Jobsworth OH&S officer at National Rail has stipulated that a train that comes within 10 minutes of a crossing requires the gates to be closed for the whole time. 10 mins may be a bit of an exageration, but they are down for an inordinate amount of time, I was stuck at a railway crossing myself last night (not being blinded by brake lights as I don' stare straight into them) and it was at least 3 to 4 mins before a train appeared.
captain_cynic said:
To be fair, people tend to bunch up to allow more cars to line up. If everyone maintained the proper distance we'd have tailbacks for miles.
Judging by the OP's photo, the Audi's tail-lights are no brighter than the railway signals... are we all at risk of being blinded by railway signals?
I think the big issue here is that it took 10 minutes for a train to pass. No doubt some Jobsworth OH&S officer at National Rail has stipulated that a train that comes within 10 minutes of a crossing requires the gates to be closed for the whole time. 10 mins may be a bit of an exageration, but they are down for an inordinate amount of time, I was stuck at a railway crossing myself last night (not being blinded by brake lights as I don' stare straight into them) and it was at least 3 to 4 mins before a train appeared.
Actually, the reason many bunch up is they think they will make more progress either through lack of knowledge or just simple ignorant/impatient driving. Many recent studies have found traffic actually flows better when we do not tailgate or are right up the chuff of the car in front. Judging by the OP's photo, the Audi's tail-lights are no brighter than the railway signals... are we all at risk of being blinded by railway signals?
I think the big issue here is that it took 10 minutes for a train to pass. No doubt some Jobsworth OH&S officer at National Rail has stipulated that a train that comes within 10 minutes of a crossing requires the gates to be closed for the whole time. 10 mins may be a bit of an exageration, but they are down for an inordinate amount of time, I was stuck at a railway crossing myself last night (not being blinded by brake lights as I don' stare straight into them) and it was at least 3 to 4 mins before a train appeared.
A similar study found that traffic waiting at traffic lights it made no difference to the number of cars that got through in the same time when the cars were bunched up or following the recommended T&T (right up to being 25 feet behind the car in front when it did impact). Most of the final reasoning came from the fact that when bunched up the cars could not progress forward to get any momentum and nor could the drivers see the traffic signals fully so had to wait. (https://phys.org/news/2017-11-buffer-bumper-contradicts-traffic-tailgating.html)
Edited by Ninja59 on Tuesday 16th January 11:55
captain_cynic said:
To be fair, people tend to bunch up to allow more cars to line up. If everyone maintained the proper distance we'd have tailbacks for miles.
Judging by the OP's photo, the Audi's tail-lights are no brighter than the railway signals... are we all at risk of being blinded by railway signals?
I think the big issue here is that it took 10 minutes for a train to pass. No doubt some Jobsworth OH&S officer at National Rail has stipulated that a train that comes within 10 minutes of a crossing requires the gates to be closed for the whole time. 10 mins may be a bit of an exageration, but they are down for an inordinate amount of time, I was stuck at a railway crossing myself last night (not being blinded by brake lights as I don' stare straight into them) and it was at least 3 to 4 mins before a train appeared.
Quite regularly sit for 10 minutes at the level crossing near work. One train goes one way, then after another 6 or 7 minutes one goes the other way.Judging by the OP's photo, the Audi's tail-lights are no brighter than the railway signals... are we all at risk of being blinded by railway signals?
I think the big issue here is that it took 10 minutes for a train to pass. No doubt some Jobsworth OH&S officer at National Rail has stipulated that a train that comes within 10 minutes of a crossing requires the gates to be closed for the whole time. 10 mins may be a bit of an exageration, but they are down for an inordinate amount of time, I was stuck at a railway crossing myself last night (not being blinded by brake lights as I don' stare straight into them) and it was at least 3 to 4 mins before a train appeared.
And yes, the auto hold keeps the brake lights on. Only noticed it the other night on my Superb. Quite useful for alerting people coming up behind if you are stationary at temporary traffic lights partially round a corner...which are also on my way home from work...twice...I have a great journey home!
captain_cynic said:
I think the big issue here is that it took 10 minutes for a train to pass. No doubt some Jobsworth OH&S officer at National Rail has stipulated that a train that comes within 10 minutes of a crossing requires the gates to be closed for the whole time. 10 mins may be a bit of an exageration, but they are down for an inordinate amount of time, I was stuck at a railway crossing myself last night (not being blinded by brake lights as I don' stare straight into them) and it was at least 3 to 4 mins before a train appeared.
One crossing I know closes for 2 trains at a time a few times an house, one train in each direction. So barrier goes down, train 1 is pretty much immediate, then a long wait for train 2 and then back up again.It would be more effecient for the road users to have it up in between, but clearly not for National Rail.
Ninja59 said:
Actually, the reason many bunch up is they think they will make more progress either through lack of knowledge or just simple ignorant/impatient driving. Many recent studies have found traffic actually flows better when we do not tailgate or are right up the chuff of the car in front.
A similar study found that traffic waiting at traffic lights it made no difference to the number of cars that got through in the same time when the cars were bunched up or following the recommended T&T (right up to being 25 feet behind the car in front when it did impact). Most of the final reasoning came from the fact that when bunched up the cars could not progress forward to get any momentum and nor could the drivers see the traffic signals fully so had to wait. (https://phys.org/news/2017-11-buffer-bumper-contradicts-traffic-tailgating.html)
I think you misunderstood. If we all kept a large distance it will cause tailbacks on other roads for drivers not planning on using that intersection.A similar study found that traffic waiting at traffic lights it made no difference to the number of cars that got through in the same time when the cars were bunched up or following the recommended T&T (right up to being 25 feet behind the car in front when it did impact). Most of the final reasoning came from the fact that when bunched up the cars could not progress forward to get any momentum and nor could the drivers see the traffic signals fully so had to wait. (https://phys.org/news/2017-11-buffer-bumper-contradicts-traffic-tailgating.html)
Edited by Ninja59 on Tuesday 16th January 11:55
It's polite to bunch up for people wanting to get into turning lanes.
The problem with moving off is that few people are prepared to move off at the same time, not the distance. You always get people that create massive gaps because they were asleep with the handbrake on and car out of gear. Adding a gap in front of them wont help because that study relied on all drivers paying attention and as you said, it makes no difference to the number of cars that get through... unless you're blocking someone waiting to enter a turning lane.
hyphen said:
One crossing I know closes for 2 trains at a time a few times an house, one train in each direction. So barrier goes down, train 1 is pretty much immediate, then a long wait for train 2 and then back up again.
It would be more effecient for the road users to have it up in between, but clearly not for National Rail.
I understand for two trains travelling close together, but last night for me the opposing trains were at least 15 mins apart (it was after 8:30pm where the trains started running 1 per hour).It would be more effecient for the road users to have it up in between, but clearly not for National Rail.
captain_cynic said:
I think you misunderstood. If we all kept a large distance it will cause tailbacks on other roads for drivers not planning on using that intersection.
It's polite to bunch up for people wanting to get into turning lanes.
The problem with moving off is that few people are prepared to move off at the same time, not the distance. You always get people that create massive gaps because they were asleep with the handbrake on and car out of gear. Adding a gap in front of them wont help because that study relied on all drivers paying attention and as you said, it makes no difference to the number of cars that get through... unless you're blocking someone waiting to enter a turning lane.
If they're not paying attention, I don't see how bunching up helps either.It's polite to bunch up for people wanting to get into turning lanes.
The problem with moving off is that few people are prepared to move off at the same time, not the distance. You always get people that create massive gaps because they were asleep with the handbrake on and car out of gear. Adding a gap in front of them wont help because that study relied on all drivers paying attention and as you said, it makes no difference to the number of cars that get through... unless you're blocking someone waiting to enter a turning lane.
Its the auto hold feature on VW/Audi DSG cars, it leaves the brake lights on at a stop
My Arteon does this and I just pop the e-handbrake on if I'm stationary for longer than say 20 seconds, turns the lights off and then auto releases when you pull off....
Probably just lack of awareness by the driver of said white Audi but I can't help feeling that you are pulled up rather close, 'tyres & tarmac' rule may have alleviated the problem
My Arteon does this and I just pop the e-handbrake on if I'm stationary for longer than say 20 seconds, turns the lights off and then auto releases when you pull off....
Probably just lack of awareness by the driver of said white Audi but I can't help feeling that you are pulled up rather close, 'tyres & tarmac' rule may have alleviated the problem
captain_cynic said:
I think you misunderstood. If we all kept a large distance it will cause tailbacks on other roads for drivers not planning on using that intersection.
It's polite to bunch up for people wanting to get into turning lanes.
The problem with moving off is that few people are prepared to move off at the same time, not the distance. You always get people that create massive gaps because they were asleep with the handbrake on and car out of gear. Adding a gap in front of them wont help because that study relied on all drivers paying attention and as you said, it makes no difference to the number of cars that get through... unless you're blocking someone waiting to enter a turning lane.
It depends how you define large distances. T&T is not actually that different to being up the chuff of the car in front (I think the picture of T &T above is tad on the "extreme" side of T&T).It's polite to bunch up for people wanting to get into turning lanes.
The problem with moving off is that few people are prepared to move off at the same time, not the distance. You always get people that create massive gaps because they were asleep with the handbrake on and car out of gear. Adding a gap in front of them wont help because that study relied on all drivers paying attention and as you said, it makes no difference to the number of cars that get through... unless you're blocking someone waiting to enter a turning lane.
I understand at certain junctions and turning areas to maintain traffic flow. But, in my locality people will sit up the arse of the person in front for no good reason (which then actually translates to having seen some drive around here doing 70 - 80+ in the wet and wind like yesterday with only something similar to a tyres and tarmac distance between them).
The last bit is lack of observation though, I will admit I used to drive my MX5 with neutral and handbrake. But, I was always paying attention and did and still do follow T & T (unless like above in very select circumstances).
Clearly in the OP's circumstance I find no good reason not to follow T&T when the positives of following it are so much greater than the negatives.
Rawwr said:
If they're not paying attention, I don't see how bunching up helps either.
have you ever been trying to inches from getting into a turning lane whilst someone ahead of you maintains a 30ft gap.Thats how it helps.
Also you don't have cars spilling over blocking other roads in peak hour.
tr7v8 said:
The OP has my sympathy. Had this quite a few times. Several with Audis where the inconsiderate drivers sit with their foot on the brake. Once was after an accident on the M25 where we were stationary for 20-25 minutes. Last time was a level crossing with I think a Kia. Once I'm stopped for more than a minute or so, knock it into park & take my foot off the brake. In fact at the crossing I switched off as well. Just common courtesy which VAG drivers seem particularly bad at.
You're going to hate me, because the way I would do it is; pull up to lights, braking to a halt engages auto hold and turns the engine off. At this point I'm sat with no feet on any pedals. Radar detects car in front pulling away and turns engine back on, and all I need to do is accelerate.Bit easier than taking a car out of gear, pulling the handbrake up and turning the engine off, then vice versa.
fido said:
No one, except for rozzers or the sort of bumbling Doris who can't control her Jazz, leaves a gap that big!
Actually I have seen some terrible driving from the police around here (I will admit none were RPU though!)I think someone really needs to go and read up on T&T advantages TBH (but I do find the gap in the picture on the large side of T&T).
A couple of examples from the past year have included waiting at the lights being able to read the Alfa Romeo badge writing of a 159 from my rear parking camera. Generally TBH if anyone manages to get in the yellow portion of my parking sensors going off when waiting they are a d
head. There is no need to drive like that.
fido said:
No one, except for rozzers or the sort of bumbling Doris who can't control her Jazz, leaves a gap that big!
Sorry, I should have said- that was the first pic that came up when I put tyres and tarmac into google, it was not me getting out Microsoft Paint to draw an exact image of how much OP should always leave. 
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