Giulia. New segment leader? Would you buy one?
Discussion
RobM77 said:
This is precisely my point. I've no wish to convert an auto lovers into manual lovers, and I find the reverse tiresome and pointless. Some people just have a strong preference for one or the other - just like RWD or FWD or turbo or n/a; we all have our preferences. It's all the more weird because in mainland Europe a manual box is available. As another poster pointed out earlier, the car itself doesn't offer the variety of other marques either - unlike a 3 series there's no estate options, or GT option, coupé option etc. I guess that Alfa and Jag (the XE is the same) just don't expect to sell their cars in enough numbers to justify it?
Or they don't have the money to do so?I wonder if RHD means Alfa can't offer a manual box, or it's the market which doesn't warrant it?
tomic said:
When are they bringing out the 2 door coupe, 4 door coupe, Estate, Convertible, Gran Turismo, Manual, Hybrid and Plugin Hybrid versions then?
I'd imagine the answer to the bulk of these questions is never, same as with the Jaguar XE. It may be the segment leader, but it's a very narrow segment it's operating in. The Germans will still massively outsell it as all 3 of them offer most or all of the above.
Hopefully neverI'd imagine the answer to the bulk of these questions is never, same as with the Jaguar XE. It may be the segment leader, but it's a very narrow segment it's operating in. The Germans will still massively outsell it as all 3 of them offer most or all of the above.
Those Germans should learn from Jag and Alfa to do 1 thing well rather than many naff products
velocemitch said:
Ares said:
Rawwr said:
Someone asked earlier in the thread if the Performante and Speciale were boring cars and no, they're not boring cars but I'd argue they'd be more fun, more involving and offer a more tactile, pleasing experience with a manual gearbox. Just a shame it's not an option.
It's not an option because when it was, no-one bought them!Truth is Alfa (or FCA) can't afford the investment of engineering a RHD manual for the miniscule sales it would attract. All of whom seem to be on this forum.
It seems we are unlikely to get a Sportwagon for similar reasons, the big sales are expected to be in China and USA, who just don't do Estates. Stelvio will have to suffice for the small number of Alfa buyers who just must have a hatch....., or you could do what i did buy a Giulia and a cheapo SUV to chuck the Dog in and tow with.
And the world doesn't do estate!
akirk said:
Ares said:
What autos have you driven? Right from my 2007 330i, I've never had an auto that has done something other that what I would want?
Conversely, I do sometimes get 3rd/5th and 2nd/4th mixed up on Mrs Ares' MINI.
Lots Conversely, I do sometimes get 3rd/5th and 2nd/4th mixed up on Mrs Ares' MINI.
I own two autos - classic RR in which it is perfect - doze off in the armchair seat while reading the paper and the car blunders on... / z3 in which it is not ideal (but car was v. cheap, so kept as a fun soft-top - would prefer a manual) - can stick it in 'manual mode' but car will still make independent choices and change at times... e.g. when slowing down it will drop back to second gear - you then go to do the same and find you push into first gear which you didn't want...but in addition to those I have driven modern / old / computerised / non-computerised - pre-selectors / auto boxes / manual mode / no manual mode etc. and am still to find one which is anyway close to what I am choosing for it to do...
an example I have given above was the e63 AMG - every choice you make - even in manual - there was a feeling that it was deciding whether to let you or not - nowhere near as nice as a manual... as for modern 911s - there is a reason they build some cars with a manual gearbox - because the auto still doesn't offer the same feel
Ares said:
The scenario you describe does't happen though, except in efficiency modes. Stick a car in sport/dynamic/etc mode, and it will hold the gear if you are using any throttle.
And you have always got easily accessible manual control over and above if you want further control.
Until it chooses to change up / down And you have always got easily accessible manual control over and above if you want further control.
let's acknowledge - you like autos and think they are amazing - you can't see a reason not to have them, but I and others prefer to have manual - I have no doubt that for many drivers an auto is a far better choice - and it is great to see their capability improved so much - but if you want control / and to have input on what happens then there isn't yet an auto which matches a manual...
Try a modern one, especially a modern one with different modes. You are welcome to derive mine if you are local to Cheshire. It will give every bit of holding a gear, responsiveness etc etc as a manual.
But it would be fruitless.
You like manuals, you prefer manuals. You just don't like autos. You're allowed to just not like them. That's all. To try and justify it with 'facts', and put science behind your dislike it won't work. You just don't like them.
I don't like Audi saloons. I could try and justify it having driven dozens, but at the end of the day, I just don't like them.
I likewise don't like estate cars. I could again argue the reasons for it, but it would be to no avail. I just don't like them.
Same thing with people irrational SUV hatred, or dislike of the French. Or people with Ginger hair.
Ozone said:
Ares said:
There isn't a 'sport' mode. Sounds like you were in Advanced Efficiency by accident, that short shifts
That explains why I think it's not sporty, there isn't a 'sport' mode! 
RicksAlfas said:
RobM77 said:
This is precisely my point. I've no wish to convert an auto lovers into manual lovers, and I find the reverse tiresome and pointless. Some people just have a strong preference for one or the other - just like RWD or FWD or turbo or n/a; we all have our preferences. It's all the more weird because in mainland Europe a manual box is available. As another poster pointed out earlier, the car itself doesn't offer the variety of other marques either - unlike a 3 series there's no estate options, or GT option, coupé option etc. I guess that Alfa and Jag (the XE is the same) just don't expect to sell their cars in enough numbers to justify it?
Or they don't have the money to do so?I wonder if RHD means Alfa can't offer a manual box, or it's the market which doesn't warrant it?
There was a plan to offer manual in the US, but they likewise discovered that there was no real demand.
Richard-390a0 said:
To me an Alfa should be A) Sporty B) Manual C) A nice bright red colour.
From this thread I now know they're apparently auto, so that's A & B outta the window IMHO
& C) They all seem to be a dull dark red colour which looks even worse this time of year, so much so that they blend in with the usual small exec pack on my commute rather than standing out as I would hope an Alfa would.
TLDR - No.
the dark red is likely comp red...QV specific. interesting where you commute is that your seeing all these nondescript QV's and other Giulia's, i have seen a grand total of 5 giulias (of all the versions) in the wild. From this thread I now know they're apparently auto, so that's A & B outta the window IMHO
& C) They all seem to be a dull dark red colour which looks even worse this time of year, so much so that they blend in with the usual small exec pack on my commute rather than standing out as I would hope an Alfa would.
TLDR - No.
Its not sporty, that's why everyone who knows more than us creams their pants over how sporty it is...
moron
Ares said:
akirk said:
Ares said:
What autos have you driven? Right from my 2007 330i, I've never had an auto that has done something other that what I would want?
Conversely, I do sometimes get 3rd/5th and 2nd/4th mixed up on Mrs Ares' MINI.
Lots Conversely, I do sometimes get 3rd/5th and 2nd/4th mixed up on Mrs Ares' MINI.
I own two autos - classic RR in which it is perfect - doze off in the armchair seat while reading the paper and the car blunders on... / z3 in which it is not ideal (but car was v. cheap, so kept as a fun soft-top - would prefer a manual) - can stick it in 'manual mode' but car will still make independent choices and change at times... e.g. when slowing down it will drop back to second gear - you then go to do the same and find you push into first gear which you didn't want...but in addition to those I have driven modern / old / computerised / non-computerised - pre-selectors / auto boxes / manual mode / no manual mode etc. and am still to find one which is anyway close to what I am choosing for it to do...
an example I have given above was the e63 AMG - every choice you make - even in manual - there was a feeling that it was deciding whether to let you or not - nowhere near as nice as a manual... as for modern 911s - there is a reason they build some cars with a manual gearbox - because the auto still doesn't offer the same feel
Ares said:
The scenario you describe does't happen though, except in efficiency modes. Stick a car in sport/dynamic/etc mode, and it will hold the gear if you are using any throttle.
And you have always got easily accessible manual control over and above if you want further control.
Until it chooses to change up / down And you have always got easily accessible manual control over and above if you want further control.
let's acknowledge - you like autos and think they are amazing - you can't see a reason not to have them, but I and others prefer to have manual - I have no doubt that for many drivers an auto is a far better choice - and it is great to see their capability improved so much - but if you want control / and to have input on what happens then there isn't yet an auto which matches a manual...
Try a modern one, especially a modern one with different modes. You are welcome to derive mine if you are local to Cheshire. It will give every bit of holding a gear, responsiveness etc etc as a manual.
But it would be fruitless.
You like manuals, you prefer manuals. You just don't like autos. You're allowed to just not like them. That's all. To try and justify it with 'facts', and put science behind your dislike it won't work. You just don't like them.
RicksAlfas said:
RobM77 said:
This is precisely my point. I've no wish to convert an auto lovers into manual lovers, and I find the reverse tiresome and pointless. Some people just have a strong preference for one or the other - just like RWD or FWD or turbo or n/a; we all have our preferences. It's all the more weird because in mainland Europe a manual box is available. As another poster pointed out earlier, the car itself doesn't offer the variety of other marques either - unlike a 3 series there's no estate options, or GT option, coupé option etc. I guess that Alfa and Jag (the XE is the same) just don't expect to sell their cars in enough numbers to justify it?
Or they don't have the money to do so?I wonder if RHD means Alfa can't offer a manual box, or it's the market which doesn't warrant it?
Anyway.... when yours coming?, its time to return as what ever b
ks is being spouted on here the Giulia really is a brilliant piece of kit.Ares said:
RicksAlfas said:
RobM77 said:
This is precisely my point. I've no wish to convert an auto lovers into manual lovers, and I find the reverse tiresome and pointless. Some people just have a strong preference for one or the other - just like RWD or FWD or turbo or n/a; we all have our preferences. It's all the more weird because in mainland Europe a manual box is available. As another poster pointed out earlier, the car itself doesn't offer the variety of other marques either - unlike a 3 series there's no estate options, or GT option, coupé option etc. I guess that Alfa and Jag (the XE is the same) just don't expect to sell their cars in enough numbers to justify it?
Or they don't have the money to do so?I wonder if RHD means Alfa can't offer a manual box, or it's the market which doesn't warrant it?
There was a plan to offer manual in the US, but they likewise discovered that there was no real demand.
Ares said:
akirk said:
Ares said:
What autos have you driven? Right from my 2007 330i, I've never had an auto that has done something other that what I would want?
Conversely, I do sometimes get 3rd/5th and 2nd/4th mixed up on Mrs Ares' MINI.
Lots Conversely, I do sometimes get 3rd/5th and 2nd/4th mixed up on Mrs Ares' MINI.
I own two autos - classic RR in which it is perfect - doze off in the armchair seat while reading the paper and the car blunders on... / z3 in which it is not ideal (but car was v. cheap, so kept as a fun soft-top - would prefer a manual) - can stick it in 'manual mode' but car will still make independent choices and change at times... e.g. when slowing down it will drop back to second gear - you then go to do the same and find you push into first gear which you didn't want...but in addition to those I have driven modern / old / computerised / non-computerised - pre-selectors / auto boxes / manual mode / no manual mode etc. and am still to find one which is anyway close to what I am choosing for it to do...
an example I have given above was the e63 AMG - every choice you make - even in manual - there was a feeling that it was deciding whether to let you or not - nowhere near as nice as a manual... as for modern 911s - there is a reason they build some cars with a manual gearbox - because the auto still doesn't offer the same feel
Ares said:
The scenario you describe does't happen though, except in efficiency modes. Stick a car in sport/dynamic/etc mode, and it will hold the gear if you are using any throttle.
And you have always got easily accessible manual control over and above if you want further control.
Until it chooses to change up / down And you have always got easily accessible manual control over and above if you want further control.
let's acknowledge - you like autos and think they are amazing - you can't see a reason not to have them, but I and others prefer to have manual - I have no doubt that for many drivers an auto is a far better choice - and it is great to see their capability improved so much - but if you want control / and to have input on what happens then there isn't yet an auto which matches a manual...
Try a modern one, especially a modern one with different modes. You are welcome to derive mine if you are local to Cheshire. It will give every bit of holding a gear, responsiveness etc etc as a manual.
But it would be fruitless.
You like manuals, you prefer manuals. You just don't like autos. You're allowed to just not like them. That's all. To try and justify it with 'facts', and put science behind your dislike it won't work. You just don't like them.
I don't like Audi saloons. I could try and justify it having driven dozens, but at the end of the day, I just don't like them.
I likewise don't like estate cars. I could again argue the reasons for it, but it would be to no avail. I just don't like them.
Same thing with people irrational SUV hatred, or dislike of the French. Or people with Ginger hair.
but maybe a brand new e63 AMG has an antiquated auto system?
maybe brand new 911s have a gearbox from the 60s?
maybe you just have an idea you believe in and don't bother reading replies?
And you are wrong - I do like Autos - I like them a lot - but for when I want to actually drive a car, then I want to be in control and don't want a computer that thinks it knows better and isn't - but I don't expect you to read that anyway
I don't try and justify anything - if you actually bothered reading what I wrote you will see that I totally accept that for many people an auto is ideal - e.g. those who might put a manual gearbox into the wrong gear?!
but no, you make a whole bunch of inaccurate assumptions and keep on and on about them - for those of us on here 'defending' manual gearboxes - e.g. RobM77 and myself - we are careful to clarify that it is our personal preference and we fully accept that others may have a different perspective - for some reason though you don't seem to understand that two different people can have a different view and both be valid in that view for themselves - i.e. you are allowed to like autos and we are allowed to like manuals - there is no internet battle here, no having to prove one better than another - amazingly the world ticks along quite well with both in existence... but don't waste your effort telling us that we are wrong and that when we drive we would be better off with autos - and that an auto can do everything we want exactly like a manual - it doesn't - they are different and having spent a lot of time driving a large variety of cars including lots with brand new sophisticated autos, they do not allow me to drive as I want to - where I am in control and choose exactly what happens at what point... hence I choose to have both - as I said before (but you probably didn't bother reading it) I have a RR with an auto - perfect for it, especially off road, squirt and go - lazy driving - but the M5 I chose to buy one with a manual...TLDR? You are wrong in your assumptions
I too don't dislike autos. I'd want an auto in an S Class, 7 series or perhaps even a 5 series. I'd also have an auto if I lived in a town and drove in towns a lot. However, if a car is under 1500kg, rear drive and designed to drive well through corners (as the Alfa is), and I lived amongst twisty C, B and A roads (which I do), then I'd want a manual box every time to interact with that side of the car's character. Not because it's better, but because after 23 years of driving a variety of cars, I've decided that it's to my taste. I feel the same way about rear drive - I'd only have FWD if I lived in a town or potentially as a racing car, but never in a road car for use on twisty roads.
RicksAlfas said:
Hi Mitch 
I'd love one. It looks great. I'm in German hybrid mode at the moment.
Glad you managed to get one. What spec did you go for?
Veloce in Misano Blue, no options to keep the figures down. Still pretty much all I need really. Not on the Company books so co2 isn’t an issue, means I don’t have to go hybrid just yet. I'd love one. It looks great. I'm in German hybrid mode at the moment.Glad you managed to get one. What spec did you go for?
Picked up a cheap Honda CRV for the Dog and towing duties, worked out not much more than a Towbar for the Alfa.
RobM77 said:
That's one of the main problems I have with auto boxes - let's say you want to enjoy a corner at 3-4k revs in 3rd gear, but the auto box thinks you should be in 4th or even 5th - annoying! Then you start to accelerate from the apex onwards, when the auto box shuffles down a gear mid corner to give you the torque you need (it probably thinks you were stuck behind a tractor and are now trying to overtake it) - a complete and utter mess.
Given that the gearbox doesn't make a car noisier or less refined, why not have that joy of control that a manual gearbox gives you in a sports saloon?
That's why there's manual mode, either using the shifter where the gear lever would be in a manual or using the paddles by the wheel.Given that the gearbox doesn't make a car noisier or less refined, why not have that joy of control that a manual gearbox gives you in a sports saloon?
You therefore do as you would in a manual, stick it in 3rd gear and only change when YOU want to. Full control, like with a manual. It won't change unless you tell it to.
In fact, all autos I've had previous to the Quadrifoglio would change up if you hit the red line, even in manual mode. The Quad doesn't if you're in Dynamic or Race. Control of the gears is completely down to the driver. It will hit the rev limiter if you let it (or if you're not quick enough to change gear!).
You really should try the specific auto in the Giulia (and particularly the Quad as it is different again) then comment. It is amazing and great fun (yes, fun!). You may still prefer a manual (which is your choice obviously) but don't think all autos are the same as you've experienced previously.
Also, regarding the part about a gearbox not making a car noisier, again in the Quad it actually does. It allows you to do flat out gear changes which result in pops and bangs from the exhaust which you just don't get with the manual version. Again, great fun especially in tunnels (although, admittedly, childish).
Edited by smarty156 on Friday 19th January 18:38
Edited by smarty156 on Friday 19th January 18:40
Agent XXX said:
Would any 3 series driver considering the Guilia please reconsider, proper drivers still need to be able to easily identify the c*cks on the road and the 3 series is that ID.
Actually I think you'll find most of the group you identify are driving Audis these days (or maybe automatic tractor-engined Alfas if you have your way). 
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