speeding fine

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Discussion

Alexharris1981

Original Poster:

3 posts

142 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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Hi Folks,
Received a fixed penalty speeding fine for 82 in a 70 the day after boxing day.

Remember seeing the copper by his bike with hairdryer in hand and was keeping up with traffic, after seeing him, saw i was doing around 73 so slowed but didn't think anything more would result.

Asked for the evidence and got the below photos.

Illegible number plate at 500m+ and cross hairs that appear to point at the road in front of the car.
By my reckoning due to angle and distance, there's probably a good 5-10m of road in the cross-hair and around 6inches of my lower, curved and honeycombed grill in the cross-hair.
My understanding is the laser needs to point at the forward most flat surface for 3+ seconds - on the Audi this is the number plate, which its way off?

the following photos are legible but have no speed.

Any ideas if he picked up some of the road in front it would skew the reading?

Any help much appreciated.






Agent XXX

1,248 posts

106 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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Saw you coming. Estimated that you were speeding. Lined you up. Zapped you when you were 'in the target'.

Suck it up sweetheart.

Debaser

5,805 posts

261 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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This is why you should always keep your eyes on lay-bys and bridges, not on the road or traffic, when driving.

curlie467

7,650 posts

201 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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It is what it is, pay up and move on.

Pintofbest

804 posts

110 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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Debaser said:
This is why you should always keep your eyes on lay-bys and bridges, not on the road or traffic, when driving.
Not sure that's the safest advice I've seen given on here laugh

Cold

15,243 posts

90 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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Think of all the other times you've exceeded the speed limit and be thankful that you've only been pinged this once. On average you're way ahead!
It's a pain and you didn't exactly mow down a bus stop packed with school kids, but sometimes we get caught doing something that, despite being inconsequential, is still breaking a law.

DoubleD

22,154 posts

108 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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67 months and 1 post. Top lurking

No ideas for a name

2,186 posts

86 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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Alexharris1981 said:
Asked for the evidence and got the below photos.

Illegible number plate at 500m+ and cross hairs that appear to point at the road in front of the car.
By my reckoning due to angle and distance, there's probably a good 5-10m of road in the cross-hair and around 6inches of my lower, curved and honeycombed grill in the cross-hair.
My understanding is the laser needs to point at the forward most flat surface for 3+ seconds - on the Audi this is the number plate, which its way off?

the following photos are legible but have no speed.

Any ideas if he picked up some of the road in front it would skew the reading?
Not what you want to hear, but looks like a good ping to me.
Since they have sent you stills, not video, you don't know where the cross hairs were at the point of reading.
Only needs around 0.3s to get a good ping.
Good for up to 1000m, so 504m is well within range.
The fact that the plate wasn't legible at the distance the ping was made doesn't matter... you were identified when you got closer in the video...
You know it was correctly identified as you got the letter.
The following photos are just for identification only, so it doesn't matter that there is no speed displayed.
If he picked up the road in front, in theory the speed would be around zero.

There is a theoretical argument over alignment - which I have never really got to the bottom of. Laser and cross hairs need to be aligned otherwise you don't know what was being targeted. This should be done in the setting up procedure at each site, but I am not convinced this happens. I don't think that would fly as a defence though.

Did the NIP arrive within 14 days if you are the RK (only ask as today is the 18th and it could theoretically be out of time)?

EDIT: Forget that... you must have had the NIP earlier in order to reply and get the 'evidence' back today.

DaveH23

3,235 posts

170 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
quotequote all
Alexharris1981 said:
the following photos are legible but have no speed.

Any ideas if he picked up some of the road in front it would skew the reading?

Any help much appreciated.





I don't think the road was speeding.

You can contest it in court. Would be interesting to see what how it pans out but that has potential to cost you even more.

agtlaw

6,712 posts

206 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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Alexharris1981 said:
Asked for the evidence and got the below photos.
These are not photos. They are stills from a video recording. You could try to get the video and have it looked at by an expert witness.

Is a speed awareness course available to you?

havoc

30,052 posts

235 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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Alexharris1981 said:
Any ideas if he picked up some of the road in front it would skew the reading?
Yes it would, but I seem to recall attempts have previously been made to cast doubt on the accuracy or correct use of these devices and all such challenges have 'failed' (or have been deemed to have failed, IYSWIM).

So you're very likely on a hiding to nothing by even suggesting it.



For me it depends whether this is a SAC or 3 points, and if the points, how many you've got already.
- If it's a SAC, roll over and take it - any fight would be unlikely to succeed and you'd probably end up with >3 points and a much bigger fine for "wasting the court's time", or some such.
- If this will put you on 9 points with a couple of years to try and be good, I'd be tempted to fight it (in that photo, if the laser is aligned with the cross-hairs as it should be, then he's measuring the speed of the tarmac under your car).

No ideas for a name

2,186 posts

86 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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havoc said:
(in that photo, if the laser is aligned with the cross-hairs as it should be, then he's measuring the speed of the tarmac under your car).
It is a still... not necessarily showing any of the frames that the measurement was actualy taken within.


Atomic12C

5,180 posts

217 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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OP - The VW behind you is going significantly faster than your speed.
And he probably didn't get 'done' - this isn't making you feel any better, sorry.

Otherwise, it looks like the copper got you fair and square - given the images provided.

CraigyMc

16,394 posts

236 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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Go to pepipoo if you want to contest it.

Pay it if you don't want to contest it.

FWIW, it looks like you did it. I'd suggest paying it and moving on with your life.

Joeguard1990

1,181 posts

126 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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No has actually asked this yet so I will....

Where you actually going 80mph? Do you normally travel at this speed?

Or are you a saint and stick to 70mph?

I think the answer to this question will tell you if you need to fight it or not.

HantsRat

2,369 posts

108 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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How has no one commented on the hideous bonnet bra on the VW in the background?

Toltec

7,159 posts

223 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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I didn't think they were supposed to ping you with other vehicles inbetween you and the speed gun. If it was an LTi 2020 the beam would have been around 1.5m across in the first picture so it could easily have been getting return signal from the car in front and even the motorhome.

As others have said unless you have money to burn it is probably not worth fighting.

EU_Foreigner

2,833 posts

226 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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Looks like bad luck that he followed you for 12 seconds in that pack of cars, especially as the VW seemed to have gone quicker and I assume he got away (can they record more cars during those 12 seconds?).

sonnenschein3000

710 posts

90 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
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HantsRat said:
How has no one commented on the hideous bonnet bra on the VW in the background?
Surely this is a crime against fashion caught on camera? laugh

No ideas for a name

2,186 posts

86 months

Thursday 18th January 2018
quotequote all
Toltec said:
I didn't think they were supposed to ping you with other vehicles inbetween you and the speed gun. If it was an LTi 2020 the beam would have been around 1.5m across in the first picture so it could easily have been getting return signal from the car in front and even the motorhome.

As others have said unless you have money to burn it is probably not worth fighting.
I didn't believe you at first as that struck me as a wide beam... but indeed, 3 milliradians at a distance of 504m give a beam width of about 1.5m.
However, that means it is only 75cm each side... I think that is well within the target if you are on or around the centre of the vehicle.

It does obviously depend very heavily on the video cross hairs being adjusted to match the laser that you can't see. I realise there is a procedure to do this - but how do we know that it has been done?


However, as you say, I wouldn't try and run that as a defence unless I had very deep pockets.