Discussion
Hi Folks,
Received a fixed penalty speeding fine for 82 in a 70 the day after boxing day.
Remember seeing the copper by his bike with hairdryer in hand and was keeping up with traffic, after seeing him, saw i was doing around 73 so slowed but didn't think anything more would result.
Asked for the evidence and got the below photos.
Illegible number plate at 500m+ and cross hairs that appear to point at the road in front of the car.
By my reckoning due to angle and distance, there's probably a good 5-10m of road in the cross-hair and around 6inches of my lower, curved and honeycombed grill in the cross-hair.
My understanding is the laser needs to point at the forward most flat surface for 3+ seconds - on the Audi this is the number plate, which its way off?
the following photos are legible but have no speed.
Any ideas if he picked up some of the road in front it would skew the reading?
Any help much appreciated.
Received a fixed penalty speeding fine for 82 in a 70 the day after boxing day.
Remember seeing the copper by his bike with hairdryer in hand and was keeping up with traffic, after seeing him, saw i was doing around 73 so slowed but didn't think anything more would result.
Asked for the evidence and got the below photos.
Illegible number plate at 500m+ and cross hairs that appear to point at the road in front of the car.
By my reckoning due to angle and distance, there's probably a good 5-10m of road in the cross-hair and around 6inches of my lower, curved and honeycombed grill in the cross-hair.
My understanding is the laser needs to point at the forward most flat surface for 3+ seconds - on the Audi this is the number plate, which its way off?
the following photos are legible but have no speed.
Any ideas if he picked up some of the road in front it would skew the reading?
Any help much appreciated.
Think of all the other times you've exceeded the speed limit and be thankful that you've only been pinged this once. On average you're way ahead!
It's a pain and you didn't exactly mow down a bus stop packed with school kids, but sometimes we get caught doing something that, despite being inconsequential, is still breaking a law.
It's a pain and you didn't exactly mow down a bus stop packed with school kids, but sometimes we get caught doing something that, despite being inconsequential, is still breaking a law.
Alexharris1981 said:
Asked for the evidence and got the below photos.
Illegible number plate at 500m+ and cross hairs that appear to point at the road in front of the car.
By my reckoning due to angle and distance, there's probably a good 5-10m of road in the cross-hair and around 6inches of my lower, curved and honeycombed grill in the cross-hair.
My understanding is the laser needs to point at the forward most flat surface for 3+ seconds - on the Audi this is the number plate, which its way off?
the following photos are legible but have no speed.
Any ideas if he picked up some of the road in front it would skew the reading?
Not what you want to hear, but looks like a good ping to me.Illegible number plate at 500m+ and cross hairs that appear to point at the road in front of the car.
By my reckoning due to angle and distance, there's probably a good 5-10m of road in the cross-hair and around 6inches of my lower, curved and honeycombed grill in the cross-hair.
My understanding is the laser needs to point at the forward most flat surface for 3+ seconds - on the Audi this is the number plate, which its way off?
the following photos are legible but have no speed.
Any ideas if he picked up some of the road in front it would skew the reading?
Since they have sent you stills, not video, you don't know where the cross hairs were at the point of reading.
Only needs around 0.3s to get a good ping.
Good for up to 1000m, so 504m is well within range.
The fact that the plate wasn't legible at the distance the ping was made doesn't matter... you were identified when you got closer in the video...
You know it was correctly identified as you got the letter.
The following photos are just for identification only, so it doesn't matter that there is no speed displayed.
If he picked up the road in front, in theory the speed would be around zero.
There is a theoretical argument over alignment - which I have never really got to the bottom of. Laser and cross hairs need to be aligned otherwise you don't know what was being targeted. This should be done in the setting up procedure at each site, but I am not convinced this happens. I don't think that would fly as a defence though.
Did the NIP arrive within 14 days if you are the RK (only ask as today is the 18th and it could theoretically be out of time)?
EDIT: Forget that... you must have had the NIP earlier in order to reply and get the 'evidence' back today.
Alexharris1981 said:
the following photos are legible but have no speed.
Any ideas if he picked up some of the road in front it would skew the reading?
Any help much appreciated.
I don't think the road was speeding. Any ideas if he picked up some of the road in front it would skew the reading?
Any help much appreciated.
You can contest it in court. Would be interesting to see what how it pans out but that has potential to cost you even more.
Alexharris1981 said:
Any ideas if he picked up some of the road in front it would skew the reading?
Yes it would, but I seem to recall attempts have previously been made to cast doubt on the accuracy or correct use of these devices and all such challenges have 'failed' (or have been deemed to have failed, IYSWIM).So you're very likely on a hiding to nothing by even suggesting it.
For me it depends whether this is a SAC or 3 points, and if the points, how many you've got already.
- If it's a SAC, roll over and take it - any fight would be unlikely to succeed and you'd probably end up with >3 points and a much bigger fine for "wasting the court's time", or some such.
- If this will put you on 9 points with a couple of years to try and be good, I'd be tempted to fight it (in that photo, if the laser is aligned with the cross-hairs as it should be, then he's measuring the speed of the tarmac under your car).
I didn't think they were supposed to ping you with other vehicles inbetween you and the speed gun. If it was an LTi 2020 the beam would have been around 1.5m across in the first picture so it could easily have been getting return signal from the car in front and even the motorhome.
As others have said unless you have money to burn it is probably not worth fighting.
As others have said unless you have money to burn it is probably not worth fighting.
Toltec said:
I didn't think they were supposed to ping you with other vehicles inbetween you and the speed gun. If it was an LTi 2020 the beam would have been around 1.5m across in the first picture so it could easily have been getting return signal from the car in front and even the motorhome.
As others have said unless you have money to burn it is probably not worth fighting.
I didn't believe you at first as that struck me as a wide beam... but indeed, 3 milliradians at a distance of 504m give a beam width of about 1.5m.As others have said unless you have money to burn it is probably not worth fighting.
However, that means it is only 75cm each side... I think that is well within the target if you are on or around the centre of the vehicle.
It does obviously depend very heavily on the video cross hairs being adjusted to match the laser that you can't see. I realise there is a procedure to do this - but how do we know that it has been done?
However, as you say, I wouldn't try and run that as a defence unless I had very deep pockets.
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