Advice on car windscreen issue with main dealer needed
Discussion
Julian Thompson said:
Which ever way you look at it someone bought a car there that should have been politely refused entry to the “bmw used cars but so good you’ll swear they were new” brigade.
Pssst.Don't mention the M3s used as track day experience cars that allegedly turned up as "Approved Used" cars in the BMW network a few years back.
I think they were ex Palmer Sport - but please don't quote me.
IME the fact that the car is at a big, shiny glass showroom with white tiled floors doesn't guarantee anything.
Misrepresenting vehicles is not on though.
Mexman said:
Unfortunately, you cannot get on with everyone, personality clashes, unrealistic demands etc, and sometimes the salesman would rather walk away from the deal but has to put on a pretend, false smile because you are the service industry.
There are idiots in every job, but there are more idiot customers out there also who think they know everything about nothing and will try and pull your pants down at every opportunity and want everything for nothing.
My attitude sells me cars and I dont pretend to like some people when they are screaming and shouting or trying to tell me how to do my job.
I am straight down the line with my customers and if they don't like it, then tough, I will decide what deals I do that make a profit and ultimately pay my mortgage.
Yes, of course.There are idiots in every job, but there are more idiot customers out there also who think they know everything about nothing and will try and pull your pants down at every opportunity and want everything for nothing.
My attitude sells me cars and I dont pretend to like some people when they are screaming and shouting or trying to tell me how to do my job.
I am straight down the line with my customers and if they don't like it, then tough, I will decide what deals I do that make a profit and ultimately pay my mortgage.
I understand what you are saying. You must deal with your fair share of idiots.
It was just your earlier reply saying you didn't care what happened in the workshop - which would not be acceptable to me should I be thinking of buying a car from you.
Agree, misrepresentation is not on.
On a telephone enquiry, I will make a habit of grabbing the hands free phone and doing a walk around description, warts and all.
Most customers will appreciate the honesty and still turn up to view, but once man's description can vary to another's.
I have had customers describe their part ex to me over the phone and a ballpark figure.
The car then turns up and you would think that they describing a different car sometimes!
This is the difficulty when you are dealing with a highly emotional , high value, complicated second hand product, there really is nothing else that you can buy which is comparible on the second hand market.
This is why the job is sometimes so difficult to get right every time.
Everyone's expectations are different.
Most cars have damage to the windscreen, that comes from facing into the wind at 60mph for 50k miles, it's too be expected, although some customers would have you think differently.
On a telephone enquiry, I will make a habit of grabbing the hands free phone and doing a walk around description, warts and all.
Most customers will appreciate the honesty and still turn up to view, but once man's description can vary to another's.
I have had customers describe their part ex to me over the phone and a ballpark figure.
The car then turns up and you would think that they describing a different car sometimes!
This is the difficulty when you are dealing with a highly emotional , high value, complicated second hand product, there really is nothing else that you can buy which is comparible on the second hand market.
This is why the job is sometimes so difficult to get right every time.
Everyone's expectations are different.
Most cars have damage to the windscreen, that comes from facing into the wind at 60mph for 50k miles, it's too be expected, although some customers would have you think differently.
Red 4 said:
Yes, of course.
I understand what you are saying. You must deal with your fair share of idiots.
It was just your earlier reply saying you didn't care what happened in the workshop - which would not be acceptable to me should I be thinking of buying a car from you.
I can only do so much with the workshop, I can put it onto a computer job card and tell them about an issue, but what happens after that, I have no control over, physically, emotionally or financially.I understand what you are saying. You must deal with your fair share of idiots.
It was just your earlier reply saying you didn't care what happened in the workshop - which would not be acceptable to me should I be thinking of buying a car from you.
If the workshop/accounts/directors do not want to replace, pay for a new screen for example, and they decided that a repair will suffice, then I have no further control over that.
That is their decision and if it comes back and bites the service department on the arse later on, then that is for them to deal with, as per the OP post about escalating to the dealer principle.
Don't moan to the salesman about it, because he will not be interested because.. See above.
Mexman said:
Crikey, 5 pages about a bloody chipped screen.!!
Can we continue this if necessary on the ask a car salesman thread?
As it seems to have gone off track a little bit and the OPs original problem has now been resolved satisfactorily.
Mods?
It isn’t just ‘a bloody chipped screen’, if it were it would have been repaired by Autoglass a week ago, at my expense, in my time with no recourse to anyone else.Can we continue this if necessary on the ask a car salesman thread?
As it seems to have gone off track a little bit and the OPs original problem has now been resolved satisfactorily.
Mods?
Given the chipped screen could not be repaired, there appears to be some debate (circa 5 pages worth) whether this is a £800+ situation that the dealer should remedy or one that I should remedy. I asked for some advice and am grateful for all perspectives provided - much food for thought.
sasha320 said:
Mexman said:
Crikey, 5 pages about a bloody chipped screen.!!
Can we continue this if necessary on the ask a car salesman thread?
As it seems to have gone off track a little bit and the OPs original problem has now been resolved satisfactorily.
Mods?
It isn’t just ‘a bloody chipped screen’, if it were it would have been repaired by Autoglass a week ago, at my expense, in my time with no recourse to anyone else.Can we continue this if necessary on the ask a car salesman thread?
As it seems to have gone off track a little bit and the OPs original problem has now been resolved satisfactorily.
Mods?
Given the chipped screen could not be repaired, there appears to be some debate (circa 5 pages worth) whether this is a £800+ situation that the dealer should remedy or one that I should remedy. I asked for some advice and am grateful for all perspectives provided - much food for thought.
2) If you pay for it then you have bought it twice, once defective and once in good order.
3) If dealer replaces it he has provided you with one screen in reasonable condition as was agreed. Next time he will try harder or price higher to cover eventualities.
sasha320 said:
Given the chipped screen could not be repaired, there appears to be some debate (circa 5 pages worth) whether this is a £800+ situation that the dealer should remedy or one that I should remedy.
Except it isn't an "£800 situation", is it? It's a £75-which-you'll-get-back-from-the-dealer situation.It's as much a "pre-existing damage" situation as any future spider in a previously repaired screen is.
I’m a windscreen fitter myself.
Repairs have no guarantee, since they repaired a screen that was already technically broken, they’ve done their best and if it’s held up, it’s satisfsctory. If you drive 5 miles and it cracks, that’s your problem unfortunately.
If you’ve got HUD and active cruise control things like that, you’ll definitely want to go through insurance as the screen will be expensive, and calibration costs for the camera in the windscreen for lane departure/active cruise etc is also expensive.
Pay excess, go through insurance.
Repairs have no guarantee, since they repaired a screen that was already technically broken, they’ve done their best and if it’s held up, it’s satisfsctory. If you drive 5 miles and it cracks, that’s your problem unfortunately.
If you’ve got HUD and active cruise control things like that, you’ll definitely want to go through insurance as the screen will be expensive, and calibration costs for the camera in the windscreen for lane departure/active cruise etc is also expensive.
Pay excess, go through insurance.
L17RMG said:
I’m a windscreen fitter myself.
Repairs have no guarantee, since they repaired a screen that was already technically broken, they’ve done their best and if it’s held up, it’s satisfsctory. If you drive 5 miles and it cracks, that’s your problem unfortunately.
If you’ve got HUD and active cruise control things like that, you’ll definitely want to go through insurance as the screen will be expensive, and calibration costs for the camera in the windscreen for lane departure/active cruise etc is also expensive.
Pay excess, go through insurance.
As a windscreen fitter encouraging insurance fraud probably isn't the wisest move. Repairs have no guarantee, since they repaired a screen that was already technically broken, they’ve done their best and if it’s held up, it’s satisfsctory. If you drive 5 miles and it cracks, that’s your problem unfortunately.
If you’ve got HUD and active cruise control things like that, you’ll definitely want to go through insurance as the screen will be expensive, and calibration costs for the camera in the windscreen for lane departure/active cruise etc is also expensive.
Pay excess, go through insurance.
Also, please explain why self-calibrating camera would need recalibrating.
Glassman said:
As a windscreen fitter encouraging insurance fraud probably isn't the wisest move.
Also, please explain why self-calibrating camera would need recalibrating.
May I ask how I’m encouraging insurance fraud? Genuine question, I may have missed something.Also, please explain why self-calibrating camera would need recalibrating.
Also didn’t see anywhere which vehicle this was relating to so was merely stating calibration costs can be expensive. If it’s self calibrating happy days.
L17RMG said:
May I ask how I’m encouraging insurance fraud? Genuine question, I may have missed something.
Also didn’t see anywhere which vehicle this was relating to so was merely stating calibration costs can be expensive. If it’s self calibrating happy days.
You buy a car and insure it. It turns out there's damage on the windscreen which was pre-existing. This would mean you asking the underwriter to cough up for something that was there before policy inception. Also didn’t see anywhere which vehicle this was relating to so was merely stating calibration costs can be expensive. If it’s self calibrating happy days.
It's a slightly grey area but ultimately it's a question of morals.
Hatson said:
sasha320 said:
Mexman said:
Crikey, 5 pages about a bloody chipped screen.!!
Can we continue this if necessary on the ask a car salesman thread?
As it seems to have gone off track a little bit and the OPs original problem has now been resolved satisfactorily.
Mods?
It isn’t just ‘a bloody chipped screen’, if it were it would have been repaired by Autoglass a week ago, at my expense, in my time with no recourse to anyone else.Can we continue this if necessary on the ask a car salesman thread?
As it seems to have gone off track a little bit and the OPs original problem has now been resolved satisfactorily.
Mods?
Given the chipped screen could not be repaired, there appears to be some debate (circa 5 pages worth) whether this is a £800+ situation that the dealer should remedy or one that I should remedy. I asked for some advice and am grateful for all perspectives provided - much food for thought.
2) If you pay for it then you have bought it twice, once defective and once in good order.
3) If dealer replaces it he has provided you with one screen in reasonable condition as was agreed. Next time he will try harder or price higher to cover eventualities.
Glassman said:
You buy a car and insure it. It turns out there's damage on the windscreen which was pre-existing. This would mean you asking the underwriter to cough up for something that was there before policy inception.
It's a slightly grey area but ultimately it's a question of morals.
Admittedly I just scanned through and see your post a couple of pages earlier. Agreed, the damage would’ve had to have occurred within the policy timeframe. Best bet then is to argue the toss with the dealer but doubt theyll cough up.It's a slightly grey area but ultimately it's a question of morals.
Apologies if I came across wrong, Glassman. Nice to know there’s fellow techs on here
L17RMG said:
Glassman said:
You buy a car and insure it. It turns out there's damage on the windscreen which was pre-existing. This would mean you asking the underwriter to cough up for something that was there before policy inception.
It's a slightly grey area but ultimately it's a question of morals.
Admittedly I just scanned through and see your post a couple of pages earlier. Agreed, the damage would’ve had to have occurred within the policy timeframe. Best bet then is to argue the toss with the dealer but doubt theyll cough up.It's a slightly grey area but ultimately it's a question of morals.
Apologies if I came across wrong, Glassman. Nice to know there’s fellow techs on here
Contrary to Loon1's suggestion (on another thread) that I have a vested interest in deterring from windscreen claims, I'm a consumer as well as a windscreen tech. Windscreen claims are not the only factor in the rising cost of motor insurance but the premium on my van has taken some pretty hefty jumps over three years. I've not claimed, and I have no convictions to add; it's the same van and the same driver.
For the benefit of anyone else in a similar situation to the OP, *some* repairs can be re-repaired successfully. The rule of thumb is that once 'filled' or alleged to have been filled you cannot repair again. This is not always true. I have re-repaired many poor attempts. It's something I do tend to bang my drum about a bit. There are too many inadequately trained repair techs out there and I wouldn't at all be surprised the damage on the OP's wasn't filled properly.
http://www.glasstecpaul.com/botched-windscreen-rep...
http://www.glasstecpaul.com/to-see-or-not-to-see/
http://www.glasstecpaul.com/helping-you-understand...
http://www.glasstecpaul.com/what-isnt-clear-about-...
Glassman said:
No need for apology, Ryan.
Contrary to Loon1's suggestion (on another thread) that I have a vested interest in deterring from windscreen claims, I'm a consumer as well as a windscreen tech. Windscreen claims are not the only factor in the rising cost of motor insurance but the premium on my van has taken some pretty hefty jumps over three years. I've not claimed, and I have no convictions to add; it's the same van and the same driver.
For the benefit of anyone else in a similar situation to the OP, *some* repairs can be re-repaired successfully. The rule of thumb is that once 'filled' or alleged to have been filled you cannot repair again. This is not always true. I have re-repaired many poor attempts. It's something I do tend to bang my drum about a bit. There are too many inadequately trained repair techs out there and I wouldn't at all be surprised the damage on the OP's wasn't filled properly.
http://www.glasstecpaul.com/botched-windscreen-rep...
http://www.glasstecpaul.com/to-see-or-not-to-see/
http://www.glasstecpaul.com/helping-you-understand...
http://www.glasstecpaul.com/what-isnt-clear-about-...
Definitely agree with you on bodged repairs. Been to many that have previously been only pitfilled and it gives me much pride to then do a proper job.Contrary to Loon1's suggestion (on another thread) that I have a vested interest in deterring from windscreen claims, I'm a consumer as well as a windscreen tech. Windscreen claims are not the only factor in the rising cost of motor insurance but the premium on my van has taken some pretty hefty jumps over three years. I've not claimed, and I have no convictions to add; it's the same van and the same driver.
For the benefit of anyone else in a similar situation to the OP, *some* repairs can be re-repaired successfully. The rule of thumb is that once 'filled' or alleged to have been filled you cannot repair again. This is not always true. I have re-repaired many poor attempts. It's something I do tend to bang my drum about a bit. There are too many inadequately trained repair techs out there and I wouldn't at all be surprised the damage on the OP's wasn't filled properly.
http://www.glasstecpaul.com/botched-windscreen-rep...
http://www.glasstecpaul.com/to-see-or-not-to-see/
http://www.glasstecpaul.com/helping-you-understand...
http://www.glasstecpaul.com/what-isnt-clear-about-...
Update: I put this windscreen saga to one side a year ago after getting distracted by other things (as well as sensing that the situation was going nowhere).
Predictably, the windscreen now has a larger ‘bullet hole’ type crack and is very visible. Main dealer said I need to get it repaired for the next MOT. As I am unable to do this due to the previous ‘repair’ I am now looking at a
Replacement OEM screen cost at £1,100
My insurance will fit a ‘pattern’ windscreen, I am reluctant to do that as there may be implications for my manufacturer’s warranty and also my insurance (due to the amount of assist tech associated with the windscreen).
The time has long gone for any remedy from the original dealer. I am now masochistically looking forward to paying the full OEM replacement cost and buying a ‘how I fell between the cracks’ (no pun) of a fully assured, warranted and insured purchase.
Predictably, the windscreen now has a larger ‘bullet hole’ type crack and is very visible. Main dealer said I need to get it repaired for the next MOT. As I am unable to do this due to the previous ‘repair’ I am now looking at a
Replacement OEM screen cost at £1,100
My insurance will fit a ‘pattern’ windscreen, I am reluctant to do that as there may be implications for my manufacturer’s warranty and also my insurance (due to the amount of assist tech associated with the windscreen).
The time has long gone for any remedy from the original dealer. I am now masochistically looking forward to paying the full OEM replacement cost and buying a ‘how I fell between the cracks’ (no pun) of a fully assured, warranted and insured purchase.
sasha320 said:
Update: I put this windscreen saga to one side a year ago after getting distracted by other things (as well as sensing that the situation was going nowhere).
Predictably, the windscreen now has a larger ‘bullet hole’ type crack and is very visible. Main dealer said I need to get it repaired for the next MOT. As I am unable to do this due to the previous ‘repair’ I am now looking at a
Replacement OEM screen cost at £1,100
My insurance will fit a ‘pattern’ windscreen, I am reluctant to do that as there may be implications for my manufacturer’s warranty and also my insurance (due to the amount of assist tech associated with the windscreen).
The time has long gone for any remedy from the original dealer. I am now masochistically looking forward to paying the full OEM replacement cost and buying a ‘how I fell between the cracks’ (no pun) of a fully assured, warranted and insured purchase.
Can you add the additional funds for your insurer to fit a genuine screen? Predictably, the windscreen now has a larger ‘bullet hole’ type crack and is very visible. Main dealer said I need to get it repaired for the next MOT. As I am unable to do this due to the previous ‘repair’ I am now looking at a
Replacement OEM screen cost at £1,100
My insurance will fit a ‘pattern’ windscreen, I am reluctant to do that as there may be implications for my manufacturer’s warranty and also my insurance (due to the amount of assist tech associated with the windscreen).
The time has long gone for any remedy from the original dealer. I am now masochistically looking forward to paying the full OEM replacement cost and buying a ‘how I fell between the cracks’ (no pun) of a fully assured, warranted and insured purchase.
I can’t see your insurance renewal rising more than the cost of a screen so not sure why you’d not want to claim?
How much Manufacturer warranty remains out of interest?
sasha320 said:
Update: I put this windscreen saga to one side a year ago after getting distracted by other things (as well as sensing that the situation was going nowhere).
Predictably, the windscreen now has a larger ‘bullet hole’ type crack and is very visible. Main dealer said I need to get it repaired for the next MOT. As I am unable to do this due to the previous ‘repair’ I am now looking at a
Replacement OEM screen cost at £1,100
My insurance will fit a ‘pattern’ windscreen, I am reluctant to do that as there may be implications for my manufacturer’s warranty and also my insurance (due to the amount of assist tech associated with the windscreen).
The time has long gone for any remedy from the original dealer. I am now masochistically looking forward to paying the full OEM replacement cost and buying a ‘how I fell between the cracks’ (no pun) of a fully assured, warranted and insured purchase.
Just get a "pattern" windscreen they are all built to a high standard.Predictably, the windscreen now has a larger ‘bullet hole’ type crack and is very visible. Main dealer said I need to get it repaired for the next MOT. As I am unable to do this due to the previous ‘repair’ I am now looking at a
Replacement OEM screen cost at £1,100
My insurance will fit a ‘pattern’ windscreen, I am reluctant to do that as there may be implications for my manufacturer’s warranty and also my insurance (due to the amount of assist tech associated with the windscreen).
The time has long gone for any remedy from the original dealer. I am now masochistically looking forward to paying the full OEM replacement cost and buying a ‘how I fell between the cracks’ (no pun) of a fully assured, warranted and insured purchase.
You sound like a very difficult customer!
sasha320 said:
I am reluctant to do that as there may be implications for my manufacturer’s warranty and also my insurance (due to the amount of assist tech associated with the windscreen).
So even after all this time you're making dramatic assumptions. Have you actually checked with either of these entities?Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff