RE: PH Service History: To lease or not to lease

RE: PH Service History: To lease or not to lease

Author
Discussion

wemorgan

3,578 posts

177 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
treeroy said:
do you know where I can find a copy of the guidelines? Can't find anything other than general info on the bvrla website, the details it asks you to pay a fee to have a hard copy of the rules. surely they must be public?
here's one example from Arval:

https://www.arval.co.uk/sites/uk/files/media/docum...


PorkRind

3,053 posts

204 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Audemars said:
"The positive is that this puts a choice of tempting new machinery within the reach of those who wouldn't otherwise stand a chance of affording it."

PCP in a nutshell and 99% of pistonheaders.

They however will fight to the grave justifying how they can afford it despite living in crap houses with crap furniture and decor.
laughthumbup


PistonBroker

2,406 posts

225 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
PorkInsider said:
There seems to be a lot of presumption around end of lease checks.

The acceptable condition guidelines are far more generous than I am.
Agreed. Mrs PB rolled our last lease car into a wall and had scratched through the paint hitting a bush when entering our drive. I got charged £75 which was less than it would have cost me in smart repairs.

The chap from BCA commented on how nice it was. I probably should have saved myself the best part of £100 I spent having it valeted.

PistonBroker

2,406 posts

225 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Midgster said:
when they (BCA) took the car back, we tracked it on the BCA website and found it was gonna be auctioned at Blackbushe (about 5 miles up the road). We turned up on the day and paid just shy of £15k for it.
I got an offer letter from BCA when my VWFS lease was near it's end as I guess they try to avoid collecting it if they can. I could have bought our 2-year-old Tiguan for about £4k less than it appeared to be worth on a quick scan of AT. A no-brainer if I'd been in the position to take them up on it.

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
PistonBroker said:
Midgster said:
when they (BCA) took the car back, we tracked it on the BCA website and found it was gonna be auctioned at Blackbushe (about 5 miles up the road). We turned up on the day and paid just shy of £15k for it.
I got an offer letter from BCA when my VWFS lease was near it's end as I guess they try to avoid collecting it if they can. I could have bought our 2-year-old Tiguan for about £4k less than it appeared to be worth on a quick scan of AT. A no-brainer if I'd been in the position to take them up on it.
When I worked for someone else, we often got that with company cars. Email went round as any car was coming to the end of it's lease with the cost to buy it - always a bargain. One of the often bought, did up and sold privately. He earned more than we paid him.

Deep

2,064 posts

242 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Ares said:
1) you are comparing new with old
2) you're not working hard enough to find great lease deals
You're sort of correct on point 1). That was definitely the case with my current car as that was about 18 months old when I bought it.

The car I have just shaken hands on today to replace it with is 6 months old demo car. So strictly speaking not brand new but hardly old ie still has 2.5 years of warranty left.

The car E43 is the car I want. I don't want a e220d or bmw 3xxd just because the lease deal is good and it has 6 months more warranty.

On point 2) you may well be right but I've looked each time I've come to change my car and never found a lease deal that makes sense on a desirable car.

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Deep said:
Ares said:
1) you are comparing new with old
2) you're not working hard enough to find great lease deals
You're sort of correct on point 1). That was definitely the case with my current car as that was about 18 months old when I bought it.

The car I have just shaken hands on today to replace it with is 6 months old demo car. So strictly speaking not brand new but hardly old ie still has 2.5 years of warranty left.

The car E43 is the car I want. I don't want a e220d or bmw 3xxd just because the lease deal is good and it has 6 months more warranty.

On point 2) you may well be right but I've looked each time I've come to change my car and never found a lease deal that makes sense on a desirable car.
Where have you looked for deals on an E43? £6,000 down and £1,000/mth?

A quick 2 minutes search more than halves your quotes:



OK, You'll have to stick on VAT if you can't reclaim, but thats still under £600/mth.

PorkInsider

5,877 posts

140 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
wemorgan said:
treeroy said:
do you know where I can find a copy of the guidelines? Can't find anything other than general info on the bvrla website, the details it asks you to pay a fee to have a hard copy of the rules. surely they must be public?
J
here's one example from Arval:

https://www.arval.co.uk/sites/uk/files/media/docum...
Another one here: https://www.leaseplan.co.uk/dcview.asp?documentid=...

Scroll down in that document and there are some photos of what they will/won’t accept, too.

Deep

2,064 posts

242 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Ares said:
Where have you looked for deals on an E43? £6,000 down and £1,000/mth?

A quick 2 minutes search more than halves your quotes:



OK, You'll have to stick on VAT if you can't reclaim, but thats still under £600/mth.
Thanks.

However I don't think any of those deals have the premium package plus do they?

Cheers

talksthetorque

10,815 posts

134 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Deep said:
Ares said:
Where have you looked for deals on an E43? £6,000 down and £1,000/mth?

A quick 2 minutes search more than halves your quotes:



OK, You'll have to stick on VAT if you can't reclaim, but thats still under £600/mth.
Thanks.

However I don't think any of those deals have the premium package plus do they?

Cheers
It would add a maximum of £120 a month to the price.
£3895/(23+9)

Considered1

7 posts

96 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
I compared a Cupra 300 ST DSG recently PCP v PCH over 2yrs
Using the GFV on the PCP as what the car will be worth (dont let them kid you otherwise is my personal experience)

So a £32,580 car will be worth just £16,119 in 2 years! that's a cost of roughly £16k without financing it!

To rent (PCH) with same deposit of £1,750 was £298pm so cost over 2 years (same 10,000 miles pa) was just £8,604
In short I dont buy what goes down in value when I can rent it for less! Work some of the time, sometimes PCP works better if you want a lot of options for example and want to keep it a very very long time.
hope this helps

Deep

2,064 posts

242 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
talksthetorque said:
It would add a maximum of £120 a month to the price.
£3895/(23+9)
Apologies if I've misunderstood but

£120 a month onto the price of £480 = £600 .
£600 + vat = £720 per month

Upfront payment = £6480.

Total cost over two years = £23040.

I've just paid £46k for a 6 month old car. I doubt the car will lose 50% of its value in 2 years to equal the £23k in rental payments.

I admit there is an opportunity cost though.

Once again apologies if I have misunderstood.

Deep

2,064 posts

242 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Considered1 said:
I compared a Cupra 300 ST DSG recently PCP v PCH over 2yrs
Using the GFV on the PCP as what the car will be worth (dont let them kid you otherwise is my personal experience)

So a £32,580 car will be worth just £16,119 in 2 years! that's a cost of roughly £16k without financing it!

To rent (PCH) with same deposit of £1,750 was £298pm so cost over 2 years (same 10,000 miles pa) was just £8,604
In short I dont buy what goes down in value when I can rent it for less! Work some of the time, sometimes PCP works better if you want a lot of options for example and want to keep it a very very long time.
hope this helps
Was £32k the RRP? If so who on earth would pay full sticker for a Seat?

You should do the maths again based on whatever the best discounted price is.

talksthetorque

10,815 posts

134 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Deep said:
talksthetorque said:
It would add a maximum of £120 a month to the price.
£3895/(23+9)
Apologies if I've misunderstood but

£120 a month onto the price of £480 = £600 .
£600 + vat = £720 per month

Upfront payment = £6480.

Total cost over two years = £23040.

I've just paid £46k for a 6 month old car. I doubt the car will lose 50% of its value in 2 years to equal the £23k in rental payments.

I admit there is an opportunity cost though.

Once again apologies if I have misunderstood.
The cost of the option is with VAT, but other than that, yes the used car is cheaper than the new car.
By Contrast, the S4 I lease in September is costing 10,500. One size down, but not too different a proposition.

But you highlight an important point, If you're going to stuff options in a car, then you will not benefit from paying for them on a lease.
You've added 4k of cost to the lease, which is 20% extra to the cost. you get no benefit except using them for the duration of the lease. It usually does not uplift the residuals. ( some manufacturers throw in Metallic paint for free so they benefit from the residual)

It's fairly early days for the Personal lease market, so as competition increases and the finance companies get more spohisticated, I expect that to change.




Edited by talksthetorque on Tuesday 23 January 22:51

Smitters

3,995 posts

156 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
Yet another tedious article designed solely as clickbait for the classifieds.

I was actually interested in a sensible piece, as commented by one of the early posters. Instead I get an inane bit of writing, failing even to note the difference between spreading and upfront cost. I suspect people don't spunk the cost of a second hand m3 in one go, but make a downpayment and monthly payments because they don't have £23k sitting about. But that means the link to the classifieds are pointless, so let's ignore that...

Lil'RedGTO

667 posts

142 months

Tuesday 23rd January 2018
quotequote all
The article is just a variation on the well-trodden "look what interesting metal you can get used for the same money as something newer" theme. Until recently I subscribed to that credo, but I have recently "given in" to the lure if leasing. I offer a few points to consider for those weighing up the pros and cons.

Sometimes what you want is not really available used. I was looking for a petrol auto family SUV, and there was almost nothing in the used market of any interest (mostly the devil's fuel), so I ended up making the leap to a lease to access the latest generation of small capacity turbo petrol SUV's, enabling me to benefit from the big strides in economy and emissions in the last couple of years.

You can live a little and add a couple of options if you want. Being particular about my cars, I had to spend an extra £40 or so a month on the right wheels, paint etc. Whilst this was not good financial sense, it was money well spent for me, because I couldn't spend 3 years looking at a car on my driveway with the wrong wheels in an unflattering colour.

It's nice to have a car that just works. At my particular stage of life (young kids, no time to myself) the hassle factor of breakdowns has increased. Also I moved recently and haven't found a trusted local indy mechanic - essential when running older cars (unless you do your own spannering).

It can help with budgeting. As others have mentioned, fixed monthly costs are useful. Sure, it's a fairly high monthly cost, but certainty has a value. I had grown tired of finances being periodically derailed by £800 garage bills. (I can, however, see the argument that the only certainty I have is that I will definitely be spunking a few hundred pounds in lease payments each month.)

It could tide you over. There is nothing available just now (new or used) that I really love, so I'll lease for a bit. Also technology is in a state of flux just now, with rapid changes likely over the next 3 years and much more choice in terms of hybrids and EV's available by 2020. Leasing for 3 years now will take me to 2021 and then I will see what is available, both lease and used.

Speccing a new car is fun. I enjoy browsing the classsifieds as much as the next PHer, but perusing brochures and speccing a brand new lease car is another level of fun.

It can reign in OCD. For me, having a lease car makes me more relaxed about it because it is not "my" car.

Just a few points to consider. Ultimately probably just an attempt by me to justify an imprudent financial decision.

Deep

2,064 posts

242 months

Wednesday 24th January 2018
quotequote all
talksthetorque said:
The cost of the option is with VAT, but other than that, yes the used car is cheaper than the new car.
By Contrast, the S4 I lease in September is costing 10,500. One size down, but not too different a proposition.

But you highlight an important point, If you're going to stuff options in a car, then you will not benefit from paying for them on a lease.
You've added 4k of cost to the lease, which is 20% extra to the cost. you get no benefit except using them for the duration of the lease. It usually does not uplift the residuals. ( some manufacturers throw in Metallic paint for free so they benefit from the residual)

It's fairly early days for the Personal lease market, so as competition increases and the finance companies get more spohisticated, I expect that to change.




Edited by talksthetorque on Tuesday 23 January 22:51
Thanks.

£10500 over two years for an S4 is very good. However I drove a s4 estate last year and didn't like it. It also comes with pretty poor standard spec, I would have to spend quite a bit on options to make it right for me.

So I think for somebody like me who wants a particular car, is happy to buy nearly new/ ex demo and wants it well (but not ridiculously) specced leasing probably doesn't make sense.

Cheers

Pommy

14,229 posts

215 months

Wednesday 24th January 2018
quotequote all
For everyone unhappy about the quality of the article email PH and get a refund?

Smitters

3,995 posts

156 months

Wednesday 24th January 2018
quotequote all
Pommy said:
For everyone unhappy about the quality of the article email PH and get a refund?
It's a fair point, but the articles are supposed to bring us in and then we help generate the revenue via the adverts we all so love. If PH is going to write pointless clickbait articles, then I'm going to come less, read less, see less ads, help generate less revenue etc etc. Though we consume a free product, we the user are an essential part of the business model.

Pommy

14,229 posts

215 months

Wednesday 24th January 2018
quotequote all
Smitters said:
Pommy said:
For everyone unhappy about the quality of the article email PH and get a refund?
It's a fair point, but the articles are supposed to bring us in and then we help generate the revenue via the adverts we all so love. If PH is going to write pointless clickbait articles, then I'm going to come less, read less, see less ads, help generate less revenue etc etc. Though we consume a free product, we the user are an essential part of the business model.
Perhaps the best way to engage in discontent is to not engage and actually add to the post count.

Its like going in to Maccas, buying a big mac and whilst you have a gob full of food loudly complaining how Maccas are bds for making you fat.

Voluntarily reading an article, whining about it and then joining in the discussion is somewhat ironic.

Frankly, who cares if it really is clickbait? I have read an article, gained something from it and the discussion thereafter and its cost me NOTHING. What is there to complain about?!