RE: Audi?S8: PH Buying Guide

[snapdragon69]

EPB fault. Even to replace both motorised calipers with breand new TRW units would be £300. The control unit £75 used. Wiring £16 Button £10. That leaves a lot (too much) for labour.

[AC43]

culpz said:

JimbobVFR said:

culpz said:

Huge performance Audi barge with eye-watering running costs shocker. For a car that was as expensive as these were from new, it should't be much of a surprise really.

Yes, they can be bought cheap but that's only the beginning and only tells one side of the story. It does pay to have these buying guides though. Go in eyes-open indeed!

To an extent I kind of agree but some of the points (for example needing to drop the engine to replace spark plugs or remove it completely for a starter motor) just smack of poor design to me.

I appreciate cramming in 10 cylinders and 4 wheel drive isn't easy but still...

It could very well be down to poor design but it's just something you'd need to consider when buying one. I'd say that it's par for the course when it comes to cars having huge engines. Sometimes, there's no other way it can be done or else such performance versions would cease to exist.

I can only assume that there's no cheap way of fixing it, so a very much like it or lump it scenario. There will be a goof few cars out there that struggle with similar issues. Unfortunately, this just happens to be a premium branded car with premium parts prices to match and alot of labour.

The various V8's in my last 4 Merc have fitted just fine - plenty of room to get to all the service items.

In the case of the S8 one of the issues is presumably that the V10 is just that bit too long for the engine bay and, as other posters have pointed out, it's also got the 4WD gubbins stuffed in there.

Anyway, mine has the same performance and greater simplicity, albeit RWD. But that's never bothered me. I've never struggled with traction with knocking on for 400 bhp and 400 lb/ft.

[LP670]

j90gta said:

Not just cars like this. Wife had a Citroen C3; it was recommended that the front wing was removed to change a headlamp bulb! Manufacturers of all types of vehicles design them to make basic home maintenance as difficult as possible. Audi A2 anyone; weren't they designed so that you could only open the front flap to check levels?

I think the A2's bonnet was more about saving weight from the latch and hinges. The bonnet was removable by two pins behind the flap so everything could be worked on easily enough.

[daniel1920]

snapdragon69 said:

EPB fault. Even to replace both motorised calipers with breand new TRW units would be £300. The control unit £75 used. Wiring £16 Button £10. That leaves a lot (too much) for labour.

In Sainsbury's 2.5kg of potatoes cost £1.60 so my 35g bag of walkers should 2.24p

[firesafetydave]

i think you may have your facts wrong for the starter motor change - to remove the engine will be £4000.00 in labor alone - even an independent charging £100.00 per hour, that equates to 40 hours - 1 whole week - just to remove and replace an engine - i doubt that very much. Most indepenadants charge nearer £50.00 per hour - thats two weeks. Really?

[JohnGoodridge]

Esceptico said:

This is the odd thing with bangernomics. It is somehow okay to lose £50k on a £100k car in depreciation over 3 years and yet if you buy a secondhand luxury barge at £15,000 and possibly loss £10,000 because of bug bills you are seen as profligate and mad.

Exactly.

Repairs are a risk. Depreciation is a certainty. Make your choice and make sure you can cover it.

P.S. where do I sign up for a Doctorate in Shedology?

[popeyewhite]

Esceptico said:

I think what should have been written was "in the real world the 4.2 TDI would be faster 95% of the time". Yes the V10 would be quicker on a drag strip or on the Autobahn but on UK roads where most time is spent below 80 mph you don't get the benefits of the V10.

The V10 is quicker to 60. If you're a torque fan then get the 4.2 and chip it... in standard form I think there's only a modest 80 lbft difference. The S8 is quicker in all conditions, but the extra torque of the 4.2 makes the dash seem less frantic. All subjective I suppose.

Esceptico said:

Not to mention that on long journeys the TDI would be faster because you would be stopping for fuel less frequently

Do you mean a long journey may be slightly shorter in the diesel?

Esceptico said:

With respect to cost of ownership over three years then unless something miraculous happened, the depreciation you suffered was several times the cost of tyres, fuel and any other consumables put together.

I wasn't addressing cost of ownership, just that the biggest cost to me in consumables was tyres. HTH.

Esceptico said:

This is the odd thing with bangernomics. It is somehow okay to lose £50k on a £100k car in depreciation over 3 years and yet if you buy a secondhand luxury barge at £15,000 and possibly loss £10,000 because of bug bills you are seen as profligate and mad.

I bought at £25K and sold at £14.5K three years later. I thought it quite reasonable. I wouldn't buy new though.

[EGTE]

Lovely car (how has no-one mentioned the awesome noise once the exhaust valves open up?), but costs are scary (I ran one for 3 years and luckily everything that failed was covered by warranty).

Not all that quick to be honest, but has a real sense of occasion. B&O stereo absolutely amazing; highly recommended option.

[GranCab]

JohnGoodridge said:

Esceptico said:

This is the odd thing with bangernomics. It is somehow okay to lose £50k on a £100k car in depreciation over 3 years and yet if you buy a secondhand luxury barge at £15,000 and possibly loss £10,000 because of bug bills you are seen as profligate and mad.

Exactly.

Repairs are a risk. Depreciation is a certainty. Make your choice and make sure you can cover it.

P.S. where do I sign up for a Doctorate in Shedology?

Someone who can shell out £100K on a new barge can probably stand the depreciation whereas the one buying a £15K old barge probably can't afford £10Ks-worth of bills ....

[SpunkyM]

£4k to change the starter is all bolx in the real world of non-main dealer servicing or home spannering. Yes, Audi will try and charge you for an engine removal but any Audi enthusiast forum will advise you just need a long extension bar (approx 1 meter) and approach it from the back end of the gearbox. The other bolt is easy but you do need to remove the oil filter. It's certainly not an easy job but it's defo not an engine out one.

I would have expected a little better research from PH here....

[Esceptico]

popeyewhite said:

Esceptico said:

I think what should have been written was "in the real world the 4.2 TDI would be faster 95% of the time". Yes the V10 would be quicker on a drag strip or on the Autobahn but on UK roads where most time is spent below 80 mph you don't get the benefits of the V10.

The V10 is quicker to 60. If you're a torque fan then get the 4.2 and chip it... in standard form I think there's only a modest 80 lbft difference. The S8 is quicker in all conditions, but the extra torque of the 4.2 makes the dash seem less frantic. All subjective I suppose. Actually I should have said that there is no real difference. Both have more than enough power to make progress/overtake. Except on the autobahn.

Esceptico said:

Not to mention that on long journeys the TDI would be faster because you would be stopping for fuel less frequently

Do you mean a long journey may be slightly shorter in the diesel? Yes - real world advantage is that you are not spending time filling up. We used to drive back from Switzerland to the UK. When I swapped from a 520d to a 530XD it took my longer because I had to refuel in the 530 but could get back to the UK on a single tank with the 520d. 530 was nicer to drive though. Less frantic.

Esceptico said:

With respect to cost of ownership over three years then unless something miraculous happened, the depreciation you suffered was several times the cost of tyres, fuel and any other consumables put together.

I wasn't addressing cost of ownership, just that the biggest cost to me in consumables was tyres. HTH.

Esceptico said:

This is the odd thing with bangernomics. It is somehow okay to lose £50k on a £100k car in depreciation over 3 years and yet if you buy a secondhand luxury barge at £15,000 and possibly loss £10,000 because of bug bills you are seen as profligate and mad.

I bought at £25K and sold at £14.5K three years later. I thought it quite reasonable. I wouldn't buy new though.

I think you did well there. £3k a year is definitely reasonable. Especially compared to what it lost in its first three years.

[kainedog]

Surely when the car was designed someone may have queried that the starter motor could prove tricky to change in the future . Swear these companies do it on purpose . Did hear once that on a Range Rover sport not sure which model , that to change a supercharger / turbo required the body to be lifted of the chassis (10 grand ) ouch

[Valgar]

GranCab said:

Someone who can shell out £100K on a new barge can probably stand the depreciation whereas the one buying a £15K old barge probably can't afford £10Ks-worth of bills ....

This

I think you'd be bonkers to buy one with the amount of things that can go wrong

[lord trumpton]

I just can't see the appeal tbh.

It's not particularly fast, has potential eye watering running costs, it looks st inside n' out and no doubt goes around corners like a balloon.

[popeyewhite]

It's quite quick, corners surprisingly well, it's the most comfy car I've ever been in and it's very quiet inside, very luxurious. It's very big though.

[QuattroDave]

Faz50 said:

Not an S8 but I had the 4.2 v8 A8 and loved it. Hit 60 in under 6 so happy enough in a big motor. Absolutely loved it.

Would like an s8 but those bills are scary!

An A8 3.0tdi with a remap to 290bhp and close to 450 lb/ft would make us a great family bus I think.

I too had the V8 petrol D3 A8.

Very nice car with lots of toys. Sounded great after I had the crossflow silencer removed for stainless straight through (there were still 4 silencers even after removing it!).

Mine had coil packs go - £500, followed by the parking brake ecu (yes a separate brain just for the handbrake!) - £500 then the engine cut out one day - faulty fuel control module (another brain) £300. Only for the problem to resurface so secondary fuel pump replaced only for it to happen again - primary fuel pump. All in another £1,200. Car sold the very next day (but not before new rubber fitted - £600!) as three consecutive strandings on the side of the road shot my confidence in the car.

Made a few quid versus what I paid for it but all in all it cost me £1,500 net after 8 months ownership.

Would I have another.... possibly!

[culpz]

AC43 said:

culpz said:

JimbobVFR said:

culpz said:

Huge performance Audi barge with eye-watering running costs shocker. For a car that was as expensive as these were from new, it should't be much of a surprise really.

Yes, they can be bought cheap but that's only the beginning and only tells one side of the story. It does pay to have these buying guides though. Go in eyes-open indeed!

To an extent I kind of agree but some of the points (for example needing to drop the engine to replace spark plugs or remove it completely for a starter motor) just smack of poor design to me.

I appreciate cramming in 10 cylinders and 4 wheel drive isn't easy but still...

It could very well be down to poor design but it's just something you'd need to consider when buying one. I'd say that it's par for the course when it comes to cars having huge engines. Sometimes, there's no other way it can be done or else such performance versions would cease to exist.

I can only assume that there's no cheap way of fixing it, so a very much like it or lump it scenario. There will be a goof few cars out there that struggle with similar issues. Unfortunately, this just happens to be a premium branded car with premium parts prices to match and alot of labour.

The various V8's in my last 4 Merc have fitted just fine - plenty of room to get to all the service items.

In the case of the S8 one of the issues is presumably that the V10 is just that bit too long for the engine bay and, as other posters have pointed out, it's also got the 4WD gubbins stuffed in there.

Anyway, mine has the same performance and greater simplicity, albeit RWD. But that's never bothered me. I've never struggled with traction with knocking on for 400 bhp and 400 lb/ft.

V8's fitted to big saloons cars are the norm though and has been the case for some time now. V10's are a completely different ball game and the lack of them shows a certain level of complexity, which is highlighted in this particular example and it's drawbacks, even in a car as big as an Audi A8.

Does BMW's E90 M5 suffer with similar issues, do we know?

[C7 JFW]

Expensive performance audi costs lots to keep running. Not surprising.

I think these are incredibly good value for money, so long as they have a rock solid history, it's a go anywhere tool with great discretion. What's not to like.

[British Beef]

culpz said:

V8's fitted to big saloons cars are the norm though and has been the case for some time now. V10's are a completely different ball game and the lack of them shows a certain level of complexity, which is highlighted in this particular example and it's drawbacks, even in a car as big as an Audi A8.

Does BMW's E90 M5 suffer with similar issues, do we know?

RS6 had V10 engine, 4WD AND 2 x turbo chargers With all Associated plumbing.
Although that car was slatted for understeer tendency due to having most of the engine infront of front axle.
Does the A6 and A8 share the same front end ?

Too much to go wrong for me, and my fathers has had the 4.2 tdi A8 for 9 years and plenty has gone wrong on that, including problems that main dealers cannot fix without "rebuilding the engine to diagnose", so personally would not touch even with a fooking long barge pole.

[Motorsport3]

Esceptico said:

This is the odd thing with bangernomics. It is somehow okay to lose £50k on a £100k car in depreciation over 3 years and yet if you buy a secondhand luxury barge at £15,000 and possibly loss £10,000 because of bug bills you are seen as profligate and mad.

That is so true. I guess it's because most people assume that when spending £15k on a car expect 15k car like bills, while the person with capacity to pay bills for the 100k car, will always buy new.

But I don't think there is anything wrong if consciously you buy second hand to avoid depreciation or maybe because you just like that V10 which is not offered new any more...