V8 INTO A CORTINA FUTURE DVLA / MOT PROBLEMS

[InitialDave]

OverSteery said:

Does making minor changes to the say chassis legs really mean its now considered a radically altered vehicle?

When I fitted a Janspeed exhaust to my MG Midget (OK, it was a long time ago), I ended up having to 'ease' a chassis leg for clearance. I wouldn't consider that relevant let alone a radically alteration.

If he spaceframes the front end, I can see it IVA time, but how many MOT tester are going to know the contours of the underside of a cortina?

As with many things in life, if you keep your head down and get on with it, it's likely to be fine. I've had a "technically you can't do that, but if you keep your mouth shut you'll never get caught" (verbal) answer from them regarding a type approval question...

But as soon as there's evidence or a record of doing it, I'd play it straight and jump through their hoops.

[shakotan]

OverSteery said:

Does making minor changes to the say chassis legs really mean its now considered a radically altered vehicle?

In the eyes of the DVLA, yes.

In the eyes of most MOT testers, no.

As in every circumstance, a modicum of common sense is applicable.

For example, by the strict rules of the 8-point system, if I take out my junk engine and gearbox and replace them with new factory spec items, fit new coilover shocks and upgrade the rear axle to a disc brake version, I would need an IVA. But in reality, no-one is going to blink an eye at those changes.

[aeropilot]

shakotan said:

markymarkthree said:

InitialDave said:

markymarkthree said:

As for chassis mods, all I know is that he wont have to chop into the chassis rails but will have to chop into the bulkhead / tunnel area and the slam panel which I am sure is structural.
He will also be beefing up the brakes and the suspension.

This is what will send him down the path of needing an IVA.

Thanks Dave.

Which bit will send him to IVA, the chopping into the slam panel or beefing up the brakes and suspension or the combination of both?

A vehicle will require an IVA if it fails to meet the 8-point criteria under the Radically Altered Vehicle rules.

If the shell absolutely must be cut, then it'll fail the 8-point criteria straight away, as 5 point have to come from an unmodified shell.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-...

Yep, and the back axle won't likely take a Mopar V8 (odd choice of engine as well....unless the little 340ci small block, but why go that route when a Ford 302 will be a better more compact fit?)
So, points lost for shell, engine, gearbox, and back axle, and possibly steering front axle as well.
Yep, BIVA territory completely.

I find it strange that your mate is getting you to ask on here when he should really be registering on Rods n Sods or NSRA forum, as if he did, he'll have many people to help guide him through the BIVA route.

EU marked glass should be a problem for a Mk3 'tina so, building to BIVA shouldn't be too much of a hassle.
Getting him to register on Rods n Sods or NSRA forums and buy one of Kev Rooney's 'Idiots guide to BIVA' manuals - it will save him a lot of hassle trying to navigate through the official manual.

[markymarkthree]

I believe he is on Rods n Sods and other forums, I just thought I would pop the question on here as there are a lot of learned folk on here.

The engine I believe is a 1970s V8 Dodge 318 = 5.2cc, chosen I believe because of the longer stroking sound but don't quote me.
Box T5 and rear axle are coming from a 1999 Mustang, axle looks very similar to a MK3 one.

I shall pass on the info re Kev Rooney's 'Idiots guide to BIVA' manuals.
So thanks for that AERO.

[rev-erend]

Will it even fit .. I know the Mopar 440 well and its a big wide engine and I dont think it will fit. The other mopars are similar (size and weight).

How would it handle - badly I think.

Again most of the Mopars abig and heavy unless you start looking at alloy blocks and heads.

I have a Savage 3.1 MK2 when I was 18 and it have very had front springs to handle the extra weight of the V6 and did not handle all that well.

Edited by rev-erend on Wednesday 14th February 13:05

[PAUL500]

Go down the kit converted route instead of the radically altered process and you can keep an age related plate and modify the existing chassis, with no IVA required. As pointed out to me by Equus on here recently.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/kitconvert...

Edited by PAUL500 on Wednesday 14th February 13:59

[aeropilot]

rev-erend said:

Will it even fit .. I know the Mopar 440 well and its a big wide engine and I dont think it will fit. The other mopars are similar (size and weight).

How would it handle - badly I think.

Again most of the Mopars abig and heavy unless you start looking at alloy blocks and heads.

318 is Mopar's small-block, not the RB big-block.

Its quite a compact unit, but still seems a strange choice, but then why not be different, as the world and his dog has dropped in Ford and Chevy small-blocks over the years.

[markymarkthree]

rev-erend said:

Will it even fit .. I know the Mopar 440 well and its a big wide engine and I dont think it will fit. The other mopars are similar (size and weight).

How would it handle - badly I think.

Again most of the Mopars abig and heavy unless you start looking at alloy blocks and heads.

I have a Savage 3.1 MK2 when I was 18 and it have very had front springs to handle the extra weight of the V6 and did not handle all that well.

Edited by rev-erend on Wednesday 14th February 13:05

Knowing my mate he would have been quite anal about his choice in engine and stuff and would have measured and re-measured, also him being a thrifty Yorkshireman.

As for handling, Mk3s arnt called "ditchlovers" for nothing.
Although saying that my MK3 Savage handles pretty well with a bit of poly here and there, different springs and adjustable shocks.

[aeropilot]

markymarkthree said:

As for handling, Mk3s arnt called "ditchlovers" for nothing.
Although saying that my MK3 Savage handles pretty well with a bit of poly here and there, different springs and adjustable shocks.

The old boy who used to do the MOT's on my Sunbeam-Lotus back in the 90's probably built your Savage. After he finished apprenticeship at Fords, he went to work for Jeff at Hanwell in the late 60's building the Savages.

He still used to look after quite a few locally owned Savages for their owners up until his retirement around the mid 2000's.


And as an ex- Mk3 2.0GT owner, I can corroborate the ditchlovers term, although, pile of crap would be my term used

[gareth_r]

Build it (properly!), then see what the MOT tester says (don't tell the tester what's been done).




IIRC, the Ford V8 is smaller than the GM and Mopar small blocks.

[Boosted LS1]

What if the slam panel had been modified years ago? Pre IVA. Also, if the car has a subframe or chassis rails won't that support the engine and maybe save any chopping of the monocoque.

[aeropilot]

Boosted LS1 said:

What if the slam panel had been modified years ago? Pre IVA.

Mods pre-88 (supported by documentary evidence) are OK.

[markymarkthree]

aeropilot said:

markymarkthree said:

As for handling, Mk3s arnt called "ditchlovers" for nothing.
Although saying that my MK3 Savage handles pretty well with a bit of poly here and there, different springs and adjustable shocks.

The old boy who used to do the MOT's on my Sunbeam-Lotus back in the 90's probably built your Savage. After he finished apprenticeship at Fords, he went to work for Jeff at Hanwell in the late 60's building the Savages.

He still used to look after quite a few locally owned Savages for their owners up until his retirement around the mid 2000's.


And as an ex- Mk3 2.0GT owner, I can corroborate the ditchlovers term, although, pile of crap would be my term used

Interesting stuff there AERO, mine was built early 1972 so he probably was involved in building mine.
Do you still have any contact with him ?
Is there any way of contacting him ?
Sadly Jeff died before I finished restoring mine but I did speak to him and he sent me all the build history for the car.
First owner of mine was one of the Baring brothers (Baring Bank).

[shakotan]

PAUL500 said:

Go down the kit converted route instead of the radically altered process and you can keep an age related plate and modify the existing chassis, with no IVA required. As pointed out to me by Equus on here recently.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/kitconvert...

Edited by PAUL500 on Wednesday 14th February 13:59

The 'Kit Converted' route can only be gone down using a kit of new parts, or kit vehicle, already Type Approved by the DSVA.

I don't believe there is such a Kit available for converting a Mk3 Cortina to Chrysler Hemi engine?

Edited by shakotan on Thursday 15th February 08:42

[Coatesy351]

It would be easier with a ford Windsor. You can buy a kit.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...

[gareth_r]

PAUL500 said:

Go down the kit converted route instead of the radically altered process and you can keep an age related plate and modify the existing chassis, with no IVA required. As pointed out to me by Equus on here recently.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/kitconvert...

That page says: "The general appearance of the vehicle will change because of the kit.". That won't apply to an engine change.

Is it intended for a new body on a vehicle that has a separate chassis?

[aeropilot]

gareth_r said:

PAUL500 said:

Go down the kit converted route instead of the radically altered process and you can keep an age related plate and modify the existing chassis, with no IVA required. As pointed out to me by Equus on here recently.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/kitconvert...

That page says: "The general appearance of the vehicle will change because of the kit.". That won't apply to an engine change.

Is it intended for a new body on a vehicle that has a separate chassis?

Not as such.

The kit rules are on the basis, of you take a rusty old Mini, Escort, Jag etc., and strip out the mechanicals/running gear, throw away the shell, and insert all the running gear etc into a new plastic body/and or separate chassis provided by the kit manufacturer.

[Pericoloso]

The south African cars were products of Basil Green motors.

[Poshbury]

I fitted a Rover V8 with it's auto box into a 72 Mk3 2 door in 1976. The only body mods I made were the front panel, so as to fit a bigger radiator and a small alteration to the trans tunnel for the gearbox linkage to operate without snagging. Basically a 2" square hole with a 1/4" raised box welded over it, hardly noticeable.
Other than that, I fitted Cortina V6 springs with Spax adjustable shocks, a Capri 3.0 axle modified for coil springs and a remote brake servo. I had to have a custom propshaft made too, as well as modified engine mounts.
Here's a pic showing where I altered the front panel for the radiator and the remote servo location if that helps.

[Todd Bonzalez]

I put an LS3 in my E46 and have had absolutely zero issues. Plenty of people do it. I MOT'd and insured it again last week with no problems.