When will you own an electric car?
Discussion
pay walled article...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/electric-cars-r...
"Electric cars rise in value after year’s use amid growing demand"
Second-hand electric cars are selling for more than they were bought for because of a rise in demand for green vehicles, according to research.
Amid a shortage in the number of eco-friendly vehicles on the market, experts said that drivers could run cars for a year and add thousands of miles to the clock but still sell the vehicle for more than the purchase price.
The trend flies in the face of the rest of the car market where uncertainty over new pollution charges in cities combined with increases in vehicle excise duty has hit sales.
Recent figures published by the motor industry showed that new car sales dropped by more than 6 per cent last month, with the number of diesels being purchased falling by a quarter year-on-year. Sales of alternatively fuelled vehicles, including pure electric cars and hybrids, rose over the period by 24 per cent but still account for only 5.5 per cent of the overall market.
However, researchers said that demand for green cars has reached such a level that it is also driving a rise in prices for second-hand vehicles.
Analysis from Cap HPI, the automotive data company, found that some models increased in value after being bought at one year old, accumulating 10,000 miles and then being resold 12 months later. It found the Peugeot Ion rose in value by 8.6 per cent between January 2017 and January 2018, adding £425. The Vauxhall Ampera, a petrol-electric hybrid, increased by an average of 5.3 per cent or £725 while the Nissan Leaf, the most popular electric car on the market, rose by 4 per cent or £456.
The Toyota Yaris hybrid had an average of 2.6 per cent or £292 added to its value and the Lexus GS hybrid increased in value by 0.7 per cent or £178.
Cap HPI said that, as well as demand, the move was likely to be partly driven by a rise in the number of roadside chargers, making it easier for drivers to travel long distances, combined with concerns over pollution charges. The government has already said that it wants to ban the sale of new petrol or diesel cars by 2040. In London, a £10-a-day toxicity charge has been levied on drivers of older diesel and petrol cars entering the centre. Councils in other parts of the country are under pressure to introduce their own measures to improve air quality.
Chris Plumb, editor of Cap HPI’s black book valuation guide, said: “Sales continue to soar in the [electric vehicle] market. Our analysis shows that drivers who buy the right EV can still make money on a sale after running it for a year and adding 10,000 miles.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/electric-cars-r...
"Electric cars rise in value after year’s use amid growing demand"
Second-hand electric cars are selling for more than they were bought for because of a rise in demand for green vehicles, according to research.
Amid a shortage in the number of eco-friendly vehicles on the market, experts said that drivers could run cars for a year and add thousands of miles to the clock but still sell the vehicle for more than the purchase price.
The trend flies in the face of the rest of the car market where uncertainty over new pollution charges in cities combined with increases in vehicle excise duty has hit sales.
Recent figures published by the motor industry showed that new car sales dropped by more than 6 per cent last month, with the number of diesels being purchased falling by a quarter year-on-year. Sales of alternatively fuelled vehicles, including pure electric cars and hybrids, rose over the period by 24 per cent but still account for only 5.5 per cent of the overall market.
However, researchers said that demand for green cars has reached such a level that it is also driving a rise in prices for second-hand vehicles.
Analysis from Cap HPI, the automotive data company, found that some models increased in value after being bought at one year old, accumulating 10,000 miles and then being resold 12 months later. It found the Peugeot Ion rose in value by 8.6 per cent between January 2017 and January 2018, adding £425. The Vauxhall Ampera, a petrol-electric hybrid, increased by an average of 5.3 per cent or £725 while the Nissan Leaf, the most popular electric car on the market, rose by 4 per cent or £456.
The Toyota Yaris hybrid had an average of 2.6 per cent or £292 added to its value and the Lexus GS hybrid increased in value by 0.7 per cent or £178.
Cap HPI said that, as well as demand, the move was likely to be partly driven by a rise in the number of roadside chargers, making it easier for drivers to travel long distances, combined with concerns over pollution charges. The government has already said that it wants to ban the sale of new petrol or diesel cars by 2040. In London, a £10-a-day toxicity charge has been levied on drivers of older diesel and petrol cars entering the centre. Councils in other parts of the country are under pressure to introduce their own measures to improve air quality.
Chris Plumb, editor of Cap HPI’s black book valuation guide, said: “Sales continue to soar in the [electric vehicle] market. Our analysis shows that drivers who buy the right EV can still make money on a sale after running it for a year and adding 10,000 miles.”
whp1983 said:
Cobalt...key material for lithium ion batteries- not masses of it about so battery tech needs to improve a lot.
Cobalt is not really a "key material" for Li-Ion batteries - it's a consistuant of some of the possible electrode chemistries but not all contain it. Some of the better options use it currently, but there's viable ones which don't. For example I don't think the gen 1 Nissan Leaf uses it. kambites said:
Cobalt is not really a "key material" for Li-Ion batteries - it's a consistuant of some of the possible electrode chemistries but not all contain it.
It is though expensive if you choose to use it. Imo Sulphur will likely take over in a few years.
As for lithium the US survey puts lithium reserves at 14 billion tons.
In 2016 we used 66000 tons, 2 percent of which went to car batteries..
M4cruiser said:
pits said:
98elise said:
pits said:
As soon as this is released and I can afford one
https://www.micro-mobility.com/en/experience-micro...
That's fhttps://www.micro-mobility.com/en/experience-micro...
king brilliant. If I needed a station car that would be it 
98elise said:
M4cruiser said:
pits said:
98elise said:
pits said:
As soon as this is released and I can afford one
https://www.micro-mobility.com/en/experience-micro...
That's fhttps://www.micro-mobility.com/en/experience-micro...
king brilliant. If I needed a station car that would be it Too Drunk to Funk said:
98elise said:
M4cruiser said:
pits said:
98elise said:
pits said:
As soon as this is released and I can afford one
https://www.micro-mobility.com/en/experience-micro...
That's fhttps://www.micro-mobility.com/en/experience-micro...
king brilliant. If I needed a station car that would be it Actually scrap using it, just make it a garden ornament and fence it off so no one can trip over it accidentally
ETA: I wondered about the headlamp position and checked the IVA manual, interestingly there seems to be no stipulation on how far from the front of the vehicle they need to be. It looks like providing they meet the viewing angle requirements you could make a combined 'wing' mirror headlamp pod!
Edited by Toltec on Tuesday 20th February 16:21
I am going to keep running my Citroen BX GTI until I can get a Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle, which will ultimately depend on how fast the refuelling network is established ( you can currently drive an FCEV from Norway to Southern Italy, but I live in Surrey, so it's promising but a way off yet)
Sparkyb69 said:
I am going to keep running my Citroen BX GTI until I can get a Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle, which will ultimately depend on how fast the refuelling network is established ( you can currently drive an FCEV from Norway to Southern Italy, but I live in Surrey, so it's promising but a way off yet)
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Is it that the infrastructure exists to drive that route or the vehicle has the range?You can, and people have, managed journeys in EV of a similar length. You'd be right that there'd be a difference in time though.
I won't be owning an electric car any time soon.
Leaving aside the fact that none of the existing cars appeal to me, currently my 6 month old apartment building in London has no charging points, and I can't run a cable from my 4th floor apartment to my car 50 metres away! My office (built in 2015) has car parking for around 600 cars, and just 4 car charging bays.
I also need the car to be able to cope with driving between London and Scotland without needing a lengthy stop or having any range anxiety near the end of the journey.
If I go electric, my only option for the forseeable future is a petrol/electric hybrid.
Leaving aside the fact that none of the existing cars appeal to me, currently my 6 month old apartment building in London has no charging points, and I can't run a cable from my 4th floor apartment to my car 50 metres away! My office (built in 2015) has car parking for around 600 cars, and just 4 car charging bays.
I also need the car to be able to cope with driving between London and Scotland without needing a lengthy stop or having any range anxiety near the end of the journey.
If I go electric, my only option for the forseeable future is a petrol/electric hybrid.
Dutch looking to ban sales of ice from 2025 on..
https://m.csmonitor.com/Environment/2016/0414/Neth...
https://m.csmonitor.com/Environment/2016/0414/Neth...
vsonix said:
The answer is out of town car parks and issue parkers with a Segway. Or they can bring their own.
Not sure if you are taking the piss or not but.. The ev revolution is far wider than cars. So many small personal vehicles.I've noticed in the last 2/3 years that commuting bikes have gone from almost no ev powered to being the majority.
Each to their own, but not for me.
I've had experience of only 3 electric cars. All Tesla's. Each one owned by a friend. I have driven all three and find them really dull. Impressively engineered, but dull. Lacking completely in what cars for me are about. I have much more fun in my work truck, a v6 pick up. A truck which is neither fast, nor technologically advanced, but sounds great and is heaps of fun to drive.
My personal car runs a big block v8, and that beats anything on earth for smiles per mile!!
0-60 times, large touch screens, autopilot. You can keep it. Does nothing for me! V8's, slot mags, sound, feeling and smell wins hands down! Plus, nothing like being able to work on your own vehicles, keeping them running nice. Listening to that sweet, sweet engine at idle! Not to mention how impressive a detailed engine bay looks! I like cars from the days when vehicles looked amazing, sounded even better, and provided the driver with pure driving pleasure.
Electric cars will work superbly for some, just not me! Alas, I feel that there aren't many folks now that will side with me these days!!
I've had experience of only 3 electric cars. All Tesla's. Each one owned by a friend. I have driven all three and find them really dull. Impressively engineered, but dull. Lacking completely in what cars for me are about. I have much more fun in my work truck, a v6 pick up. A truck which is neither fast, nor technologically advanced, but sounds great and is heaps of fun to drive.
My personal car runs a big block v8, and that beats anything on earth for smiles per mile!!
0-60 times, large touch screens, autopilot. You can keep it. Does nothing for me! V8's, slot mags, sound, feeling and smell wins hands down! Plus, nothing like being able to work on your own vehicles, keeping them running nice. Listening to that sweet, sweet engine at idle! Not to mention how impressive a detailed engine bay looks! I like cars from the days when vehicles looked amazing, sounded even better, and provided the driver with pure driving pleasure.
Electric cars will work superbly for some, just not me! Alas, I feel that there aren't many folks now that will side with me these days!!
Too Drunk to Funk said:
98elise said:
M4cruiser said:
pits said:
98elise said:
pits said:
As soon as this is released and I can afford one
https://www.micro-mobility.com/en/experience-micro...
That's fhttps://www.micro-mobility.com/en/experience-micro...
king brilliant. If I needed a station car that would be it austinsmirk said:
I’ll give you some honest costs.
So £205 a mth is it for the car-leaf, Plus tuppence for electric. Given I’m £120 up on fuel costs, basically there’s £80 a mth in it.
Depreciation can be thus ignored as the dealer and govt grant must be taken into account.
So just £80 a mth buys a brand new, worry free car. Yes you can run a shed, but yr still slinging fuel in it and repairing it, taxing it, et al.
I assume this is for a second hand Leaf. If not, I'd love to know how you've done it! So £205 a mth is it for the car-leaf, Plus tuppence for electric. Given I’m £120 up on fuel costs, basically there’s £80 a mth in it.
Depreciation can be thus ignored as the dealer and govt grant must be taken into account.
So just £80 a mth buys a brand new, worry free car. Yes you can run a shed, but yr still slinging fuel in it and repairing it, taxing it, et al.
With a £2000 deposit (/trade-in / scrappage), I'm being quoted around £200 per month for 36 months (on a 2 - 3 year old Leaf), then around £4500 end payment (which or course one could pay by taking a bank loan and carrying on at £200 per month for about another 2 years). By which time the Leaf would be 8 years old.
RobDickinson said:
vsonix said:
The answer is out of town car parks and issue parkers with a Segway. Or they can bring their own.
Not sure if you are taking the piss or not but.. The ev revolution is far wider than cars. So many small personal vehicles.I've noticed in the last 2/3 years that commuting bikes have gone from almost no ev powered to being the majority.
RobDickinson said:
Not sure if you are taking the piss or not but.. The ev revolution is far wider than cars. So many small personal vehicles.
I've noticed in the last 2/3 years that commuting bikes have gone from almost no ev powered to being the majority.
Really? A CG125 can be had for £300 and will last until the cockroaches expire. I've noticed in the last 2/3 years that commuting bikes have gone from almost no ev powered to being the majority.
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