RE: Prior Convictions: Fuelling the fire

RE: Prior Convictions: Fuelling the fire

Author
Discussion

GibsonSG

146 posts

42 months

Sunday 18th February
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Some good points there. I do a lot of motorway miles and the GTD was alright in that environment, but it was those moments off it (the trip from the M5 to my house is a B road blazer) where I craved for a good petrol car.

Ultimately, I realised that petrol is where I’m at. The GTD’s replacement is a Meg RS and it entertains where the Golf frustrates. However it does only average 27 mpg and needs super unleaded. Still it’s only money eh?

Escort Si-130

2,261 posts

111 months

Sunday 18th February
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The quicker we get rid of diesels the better. I cant stand the many idiots that go out and buy a "deezul" thinking its good for the environment mpg etc.
If we had turbo petrol engines in the early 2000's and late 90's with direct injection that the diesels were getting then people wouldn't have been flocking to diesels in the way they did.

Diesels should only have been on buses, vans, trucks, tractors etc. I find it a pointless waste on a car.
Gaining a million miles doesn't necessarily mean its cleaner. You could use coal powered steam and possibly gain around 300mpg (or mile per lump) doesn't mean its clean.

Escort Si-130

2,261 posts

111 months

Sunday 18th February
quotequote all
+1 hope it dies a painful death
Wills2 said:
I have no idea why anyone without having some specialist needs that only a diesel engine can cope with would want to drive one on a daily basis, the clatter alone is enough to say no, couple that with a vanishingly small power band and NOx emissions and why would you want to?

Every time I'm in LA I'm always astounded by the sound of the cars, everything is melodic and smooth even the old Japanese sheds sound great, walk through any major city in the UK and it's just an awful combination clatter and soot in the main.

I hope diesel dies.







tjlees

1,349 posts

168 months

Sunday 18th February
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Diesel is not really specialist - 99% of goods around the world are powered by Diesel engines.

It’s perfect for efficient load lugging duties and the straight six minimises the clatter and mated to 8 ZF auto gearbox removes any powerband problems. Ultimately it down to running costs - my frIend with his m135i get 400 miles out of a tank (low 30s mpg) and I get 600 miles in a 35d (50+mpg).

While I’m the first to admit petrol sounds better, until someone taxes diesel to death or makes emissions impossible, I’ll be driving the next 300k miles with the oily stuff.


(But weekends will be petrol only cloud9)


Chestrockwell

698 posts

88 months

Monday 19th February
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I’m not sure about everybody here’s salaries but it always boils down to cost, I wanted a 435i but after a test drive in one and a 430d, I picked the 430d because

A - it’s cheaper to buy
B - just as quick, probably feels quicker because of the torque and the 8 speed ZF
C - spirited test drive in the oil burner got 28mpg vs 15 in the 435i
D - tax is cheaper

Yes the 435i sounds nicer, revs higher and what not but on a day to day basis, the benefits of a diesel win it over for me, call me crazy! It doesn’t actually sound bad either.

And before someone mentions 428i/430i, I’d never ever even think about paying 30 plus k for a 4 cylinder BMW, it’s just sacrelgious, regardless of the power, say what you want but drive a 30d and 28i/30i back to back and my money will be on you going for the diesel.

It’s obviously a no brainer going for a petrol small family hatchback over a diesel like the Kia, however with a big heavy car like the 4 series or a 5 series, it just makes sense to comprise and go for a 3.0 diesel. You should mention that in the article, surely a comparasion between a 530i and 530d would be more of a decent debate as this is pistonheads after all!

If money was no object you’d find me in a M6 GranCoupe...but I’m not rich so I settled for a 430d.
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blearyeyedboy

4,538 posts

110 months

Monday 19th February
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TooMany2cvs said:
Oh, I dunno...

hehe

I guess I asked for that one. wink

I realise I'm arguing against the tide here, but over time I wonder if this might genuinely change. You know what else remote areas of Africa have? Sunlight.

It would take at least a couple of decades but if solar power's storage issues might be solved, you might find those Jerry cans replaced with battery packs and solar panels on the roof. Is that more likely than the continuation of diesel in remote areas? Not for the near future (before I sound like a nutjob), but for a couple of decades time it might not be as Looney Tunes as it seems now.

TooMany2cvs

25,930 posts

57 months

Monday 19th February
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blearyeyedboy said:
I realise I'm arguing against the tide here, but over time I wonder if this might genuinely change. You know what else remote areas of Africa have? Sunlight.
Yes, they do. Quite a lot of it.

blearyeyedboy said:
It would take at least a couple of decades but if solar power's storage issues might be solved, you might find those Jerry cans replaced with battery packs and solar panels on the roof.
You might like to do some sums on that.

Let's assume 100kWh battery pack - Tesla-scale. In the Model S, that's just shy of 400 mile official range, call it 250 real world.
Let's say 18hrs of daylight on some kind of ground-based array that you can drive up to and plug in to, because that's going to be WAY too big to have on the roof. But, obviously, that's not all for the car, is it? Let's be really optimistic, and say a third of that, six hours-worth - so you want about 17kWh, so you're probably looking for around 25kWp panels. Quick google suggests that in Seth Effrika, they'd be installing 15m2 for 2kWp, so we're looking at around 190m2 of panel... Mmm. OK...

Now, obviously, that's current solar panel and motor tech...

Oh, and people overlanding in 4x4s tend not to do it alone, for fairly obvious reasons.

blearyeyedboy

4,538 posts

110 months

Monday 19th February
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^ Point entirely taken, and agreed.
I doubt that electricity alone would suffice. But petrol hybrid... Perhaps. But as your sums demonstrate, it's certainly not viable yet and may never be.

Even the fervent optimist in me recognises we're decades away from what I describe, if it's possible at all.

Slb89

63 posts

70 months

Monday 19th February
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going to also stick up for the diesel, i've owned a 123d E82 coupe for 2 and a bit years now as a daily driver, at the time of buying i tried the 120i vs 123d, and it was day and night how much quicker the diesel felt, and in terms of handling both felt more or less the same, both have near 50/50 distribution and handle very well, but the diesel just got going so much quicker and didn't run out of puff, given the twin sequential turbo setup and after both day tests, i got 33mpg from the 123d on a spirited day and as low as 21 mpg from the petrol, thrashing them both equally down b roads, my weekly commute i get around 40mpg and on a 2 hour motorway jaunt can get as high as 53mpg. plus the tax was only £130 and the petrol was one band higher........

but if it wasn't for the fact i could jump into my k series lotus on a weekend, i would definitely get pretty depressed driving the diesel all the time. diesels provided a choice, it was up to us as consumers to decide what suited.



Edited by Slb89 on Monday 19th February 14:27

e30m3Mark

10,949 posts

104 months

Monday 19th February
quotequote all
I simply don't enjoy the driving characteristics of a diesel compared to a petrol. They also sound rubbish and clouds of soot aren't a winner for me either.

Perfectly acceptable for tractors, busses, lorries and Audi's but I'll pass thanks.

tjlees

1,349 posts

168 months

Monday 19th February
quotequote all
e30m3Mark said:
I simply don't enjoy the driving characteristics of a diesel compared to a petrol. They also sound rubbish and clouds of soot aren't a winner for me either.

Perfectly acceptable for tractors, busses, lorries and Audi's but I'll pass thanks.
Dpf and egr equipped cars don’t produce soot - or at least mine doesn’t - it’s an mot failure for those types of cars.

For driving charactistics, DCT type auto is little or no different for petrol v diesel apart from diesel has usually got more low down torque and tends to be better at towing because of it.

However for the manual equivalent with a low rent 1.6TD it’s terrible. The powerband is so narrow and relatively low that overtaking takes two gear changes and a county hehe

Diesel never going to win on sound regardless of cylinder count v anything remotely sporty and petrol.

At least with ASD I can pretend I have a petrol straight 6.

unsprung

2,101 posts

55 months

Monday 19th February
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For many, but not all, passenger car applications, I empathise with those who dislike the sound and the narrow power band of diesel.

But on a mid-sized truck like the Ranger Raptor or its nemesis over at General Motors, the Colorado ZR2, the gentle clickety-clack of diesel is part of the aesthetic. Part of the experience. And the power band, even if narrow, is served up at a very useful RPM.

In rural areas or out in the snow or off road, these kind of trucks and diesel are like, well, fish and chips.



drpep

1,172 posts

99 months

Tuesday 20th February
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Amen to this. Diesel is an abhorrent fuel-stock and should be confined to vehicles which desperately need the torque curve. So sick of stty 2.0L lung diseasel rental cars in Europe. Utterly miserable transport. US has the right idea (at least on the petrol vs diesel front). The onward slog toward electric should hopefully render diesel a thing of the past.