Tell me about British Leyland
Discussion
iSore said:
I disagree about the Princess. Compared to cars of its era - Cortina Mark 3/4, Renault 20, Alfetta 2000 etc I still think it's a good, sharp looking thing. They are quite colour sensitive - black with black and gold coachlines always looked smart, but Tara green was good too.
The 2200 was a waste of time but the 2000 O Series packed enough torque to whisk it along very well. The Princess 2 put right a lot of the ills of the original (especially fit and finish) and ours was exceptionally reliable.
Yeah, in silhouette the Princess is broadly the same as the popular Giugiaro designs of the time (think VW Scirocco, Alfa Alfetta/Sud Sprint) and even (if you want stretch the point a bit) shades of DMC-12 and Esprit. I don't think it's at all a bad-looking car, although it was unconventional for the time and its class, but it was unconventional in engineering, too. It's very much a British Citroen CX in being an 'engineering led' design - maximum ride comfort, maximum interior space, maximum stability, minimum drag, and engines designed for high-torque, low-revving slogging rather than anything zippy or dynamic. The 2200 was a waste of time but the 2000 O Series packed enough torque to whisk it along very well. The Princess 2 put right a lot of the ills of the original (especially fit and finish) and ours was exceptionally reliable.
I think the lack of a hatchback wasn't (and isn't) quite as much of a faux par as people often make it out to be. Hatchbacks were still a pretty new idea and then only on fairly utilitarian superminis and small estates (Renault 16 being the exception, but French cars of the time were known for being strange and France had a very different, much more functional and less image-focussed way of looking at cars then). The Princess was in the Victor/Granada class and a hatchback wasn't only not considered a requirement but it was still seen as potentially rather downmarket. The Rover SD1 had the same problem and was a bold design move but executed it so well that no-one seemed to care. Other large family/executive cars didn't start getting hatchbacks until the 1980s, and even then they were outliers (think Rover 800 Fastback, Citroen XM, Mk3 Granada).
Same with the Allegro. It didn't have one, but neither did the Alfasud or the Citroen GS, which were its direct comparators, while the small Ford, Vauxhall and Rootes saloons in the same class certainly didn't. Unfortunately it was just a couple of years after the Allegro was launched that the VW Golf, the Vauxhall Chevette and the Chrysler Alpine came along to make hatchbacks the new must-have for small family cars, making the Allegro seem outdated and making BL look like it had missed an obvious trick. When really it was just the last of the old guard.
2xChevrons said:
iSore said:
I disagree about the Princess. Compared to cars of its era - Cortina Mark 3/4, Renault 20, Alfetta 2000 etc I still think it's a good, sharp looking thing. They are quite colour sensitive - black with black and gold coachlines always looked smart, but Tara green was good too.
The 2200 was a waste of time but the 2000 O Series packed enough torque to whisk it along very well. The Princess 2 put right a lot of the ills of the original (especially fit and finish) and ours was exceptionally reliable.
Yeah, in silhouette the Princess is broadly the same as the popular Giugiaro designs of the time (think VW Scirocco, Alfa Alfetta/Sud Sprint) and even (if you want stretch the point a bit) shades of DMC-12 and Esprit. I don't think it's at all a bad-looking car, although it was unconventional for the time and its class, but it was unconventional in engineering, too. It's very much a British Citroen CX in being an 'engineering led' design - maximum ride comfort, maximum interior space, maximum stability, minimum drag, and engines designed for high-torque, low-revving slogging rather than anything zippy or dynamic. The 2200 was a waste of time but the 2000 O Series packed enough torque to whisk it along very well. The Princess 2 put right a lot of the ills of the original (especially fit and finish) and ours was exceptionally reliable.
I think the lack of a hatchback wasn't (and isn't) quite as much of a faux par as people often make it out to be. Hatchbacks were still a pretty new idea and then only on fairly utilitarian superminis and small estates (Renault 16 being the exception, but French cars of the time were known for being strange and France had a very different, much more functional and less image-focussed way of looking at cars then). The Princess was in the Victor/Granada class and a hatchback wasn't only not considered a requirement but it was still seen as potentially rather downmarket. The Rover SD1 had the same problem and was a bold design move but executed it so well that no-one seemed to care. Other large family/executive cars didn't start getting hatchbacks until the 1980s, and even then they were outliers (think Rover 800 Fastback, Citroen XM, Mk3 Granada).
The Ambassador never looked as good as the Princess IMHO. Still a huge amount of room inside compared with its rivals.
bobtail4x4 said:
My uncle bought a Maxi when they were first sold. he could never get the gear he wanted first time, as the cable linkage wasnt adjusted
A friend of mine had a rover 200 (can't remember which reg.) and always complained he couldn't find 3rd gear or "it didn't exist".Got rid of it for a 3 series i recall because of the gear thing.
iSore said:
I never drove one, but in 1995 I did drive a 1992 J reg (pre facelift) Vitesse that was a 2 litre Turbo. It struck me as being a pretty decent car, a nice metallic blue green colour with half leather Recaro seats.
blueg33 said:
Great car for touring Europe 4 up. Cruised autobahns at 120mph with no problem.
Wife’s car was also a Rover/Honda
The last two Rovers that my Dad has as dailys (before switching to Mercs) were a pair of Rover 800 Sterlings (the original with the 'slit' grille). Both were superb long-distance cars that did duty on our annual summer holiday to the south of France and usually one or two other bits of European driving as well. I remember (for some reason - I think the flights were cancelled) Dad and Mum driving in shifts to drive non-stop to somewhere in the Italian Alps in the first Sterling. Very, very mechancially refined and an excellent ride/handling balance (although apparently it did run out of travel on crumbly French backroads, which speaks of its Honda origins). Both were second hand and both were very dependable - the first one had done a lot of intense miles with its original owner and began suffering from rusty wheelarches while the second blew out a big end with only a few miles warning for reasons that were never determined but was otherwise faultless both before and after. Wife’s car was also a Rover/Honda
What made Dad finally ditch Rover was driving a Mk2 Sterling - build quality was generally lower, the ride had gone all soggy and he didn't like the variable-rate power steering. So he went for a secondhand Merc W124 300TE estate, which was relatively under-specced in terms of gadgets (the Sterling had heated, electric leather front seats with driver seat and mirror memory, cruise control, adjustable leather rear seats, reading lights all-round etc. For the same price as a Sterling the Merc had cloth seats, no cruise, no reading lamps, electric seat adustment only for the driver. It was also a much more wallowy old barge to drive than the Rover, but Dad liked the no-nonsense shove of the big straight six (true to form the Honda V6 in the Sterling had to be wrung right out to get the most from it). And of course the Merc's build quality and reliability was top-notch - that car did 210,000 miles in 12 years on top of the 65,000 it already had on when we bought it and it only ever needed servicing and occasional life-expired parts.
Ali G said:
That would be “this” one.....
wobert said:
Ali G said:
That would be “this” one.....P5BNij said:
Dalmahoy said:
I read once that during the 70's and early 80's, one of the largest viewing television programmes was The Professionals.
During the early episodes, the cars driven in the programme were provided by BL but at the end of every day's filming they were returned back to BL.
Problem being - when they handed the show for example a red Dolomite Sprint one day and the following, they handed over a yellow Dolomite Sprint!
The producers spat the dummy and Ford then stood in with the Granada, RS2000 and Capri and the rest is history.
Product placement at its finest.
Not quite right but you've got the general gist of it - the cars were kept at the production company's base in Middlesex but BL often wanted them back for a few days at a time to loan them out to other people, when they did return the cars they often refused to start or broke down which wreaked havoc on the production schedule. Some of the cars promised by BL never turned up, Cowley was originally supposed to have had a dark blue Daimler Double Six which never arrived which is why they ended up using the ex- New Avengers SD1 until it was replaced by the Granada. Filming started in June '77 and by October the last BL cars had been sent back, a meeting had been set up to sort things out but the BL representative who was invited couldn't give MkI Productions any guarantee that things would be any better so stunt co-ordinator Pete Brayham suggested they get in touch with his contact at Ford from his days on The Sweeney and that was the end of the contract with BL. Part of the problem had been that the contact point at BL changed almost weekly with messages not getting through to the right person.During the early episodes, the cars driven in the programme were provided by BL but at the end of every day's filming they were returned back to BL.
Problem being - when they handed the show for example a red Dolomite Sprint one day and the following, they handed over a yellow Dolomite Sprint!
The producers spat the dummy and Ford then stood in with the Granada, RS2000 and Capri and the rest is history.
Product placement at its finest.
BMC / BL never seemed to appreciate product placement!
I'm also told that the Carry on Cabby film was to use Morris 1100s as the Glamcab cars but again due to BMCs disinterest Ford Cortinas were used instead as Ford offered the use of the press fleet for filming
2xChevrons said:
brrapp said:
I hadn't realised that they were part of British Leyland too till today. Just looked it up and found it only had just over 100bhp , seemed awesome at the time.
BL had so many fingers in so many pies:Cars:
Austin (car and commercial)
Vanden Plas
Morris (car and commercial)
MG
Wolseley
Riley
Triumph
Rover (and Land Rover)
Jaguar
Daimler
Authi
Innocenti
Leyland Australia
Leykor (South Africa)
Commercials:
Leyland Trucks
Scammell
Daimler
Guy
AEC
Aveling-Barford
Bristol Commercials
Albion Motors
Charles Roe
Park Royal Vehicles
Military:
Alvis
Daimler
Body:
Pressed Steel Fisher
Autobody Dies
Industrial:
Leyland Tractors (ex-Nuffield)
Coventry Climax
Invicta Bridge & Engineering
Miscellaneous:
SU Carburettors
Butec Electrical
Prestcold Fridges
Fisholow Prefab Buildings
Nuffield Press
And that's not counting all the brands and product lines each of those firms owned within themselves!
Eyersey1234 said:
How many of these are still around? Leyland trucks are part of DAF now, Leyland bus are part of Volvo, MG and Jaguar Land Rover are still trading but are any others?
The non car bit of Wolseley still exists, ditto Triumph of course. Similarly Alvis as a military vehicle division of Bae systems. I think even Alvis split from the car division before British Leyland was formed though.Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff