RE: Porsche confirms the death of diesel
Discussion
This wasn’t a massive surprise - particularly as there was no Cayenne Diesel when the new one was launched & would have made the most sense of all the Porsche diesels.
Diesel is becoming less & less acceptable/attractive/viable for more & more of the population (personally it was only the tax advantages that made it appealing). I have a colleague who’s looking at a new Mercedes C class & they think hey should go diesel because they don’t rate the petrol options - but they do less than 10k a year, are a private buyer, drive into the city (who knows what the cost/rules will be within the life cycle of the car) & I’ve tried my best to convince them otherwise.
Modern petrol engines have most of the advantages of diesel without the disadvantages - my 1.4ACT Leon does 55+mpg on a long run, has most of the torque but a nicer power band as well as riding & handling better due to less weight over the front (the diesel aquivelent courtesy car I had didn’t ride or flow anywhere as nicely)
Diesel is becoming less & less acceptable/attractive/viable for more & more of the population (personally it was only the tax advantages that made it appealing). I have a colleague who’s looking at a new Mercedes C class & they think hey should go diesel because they don’t rate the petrol options - but they do less than 10k a year, are a private buyer, drive into the city (who knows what the cost/rules will be within the life cycle of the car) & I’ve tried my best to convince them otherwise.
Modern petrol engines have most of the advantages of diesel without the disadvantages - my 1.4ACT Leon does 55+mpg on a long run, has most of the torque but a nicer power band as well as riding & handling better due to less weight over the front (the diesel aquivelent courtesy car I had didn’t ride or flow anywhere as nicely)
The anti-diesel thing right now is bloody odd. We don't all live in London. In the city fine I agree, get rid of them, but for everyone else you use 50% less fuel. Going back to petrol because of its perceived cleanliness... Crazy.
Plug in hybrids - fine - but a diesel plug in hybrid is surely better?!
Odd.
Porsche I get - I understand why they released the diesels, but I totally get why they wouldn't keep them going.
Plug in hybrids - fine - but a diesel plug in hybrid is surely better?!
Odd.
Porsche I get - I understand why they released the diesels, but I totally get why they wouldn't keep them going.
unpc said:
I just spent some time recently in both London and New York and the difference in air quality is palpable. London reeks of diesel fumes whereas New York doesn't so any move away from diesel is only a good thing IMO.
This is a good point, I doubt the diesel versions were selling very well outside of Europe, the lands of the Luxury SUV are America, the Middle East and China (to a lesser degree) and these places rarely by diesel passenger cars. Europe is an anomaly due to historical tax regimes favouring diesels. Outside of Europe, a diesel Golf is as rare as hens teeth (but still reeks as bad).
Dale487 said:
This wasn’t a massive surprise - particularly as there was no Cayenne Diesel when the new one was launched & would have made the most sense of all the Porsche diesels.
Diesel is becoming less & less acceptable/attractive/viable for more & more of the population (personally it was only the tax advantages that made it appealing). I have a colleague who’s looking at a new Mercedes C class & they think hey should go diesel because they don’t rate the petrol options - but they do less than 10k a year, are a private buyer, drive into the city (who knows what the cost/rules will be within the life cycle of the car) & I’ve tried my best to convince them otherwise.
Modern petrol engines have most of the advantages of diesel without the disadvantages - my 1.4ACT Leon does 55+mpg on a long run, has most of the torque but a nicer power band as well as riding & handling better due to less weight over the front (the diesel aquivelent courtesy car I had didn’t ride or flow anywhere as nicely)
There's no telling some people though.Diesel is becoming less & less acceptable/attractive/viable for more & more of the population (personally it was only the tax advantages that made it appealing). I have a colleague who’s looking at a new Mercedes C class & they think hey should go diesel because they don’t rate the petrol options - but they do less than 10k a year, are a private buyer, drive into the city (who knows what the cost/rules will be within the life cycle of the car) & I’ve tried my best to convince them otherwise.
Modern petrol engines have most of the advantages of diesel without the disadvantages - my 1.4ACT Leon does 55+mpg on a long run, has most of the torque but a nicer power band as well as riding & handling better due to less weight over the front (the diesel aquivelent courtesy car I had didn’t ride or flow anywhere as nicely)
A significant number of my colleagues at work have diesels for very short commutes, and I mean very short. One starts up his newish Audi 2.0 TDi, drives a straight road for about a mile and a half then reaches the works car park and shuts it down. I shudder to think the damage he'll be doing to that car, never mind the crap economy.
The winner by a country mile though (actually a quarter of a mile
), is my BIL, who drives the 400yds or so to work, because "it beats walking". Car of choice? A Merc A180d 
Nanook said:
nickfrog said:
Based on my experience, petrol turbo have a very different power delivery to a diesel.
I've just bought a new 2.0 petrol turbo. It makes peak torque from 1400rpm to 3900rpm.Peak power is from 4000rpm to 6200rpm.
It revs more than a diesel, but it feels much more like a diesel than it feels like my 3.5 NA V6, which doesn't even make peak torque til about 4800rpm IIRC.
If you get a turbo petrol designed for performance, it still feels like its meant for performance. It'll still accelerate constantly until you hit the rev limiter but you get about 22 MPG from a 3L.
Jual Mass Flywheel said:
I wonder how many of the diesel haters have to do nearly 20K a year, support 3 kids and pay a mortgage on an average wage? For some people every penny counts. Now of course with regards to new Porsches and their price point that doesn't really hold water but for many of us a daily barge needs to be cheap to run.
I wish I could live in petrol eutopia but I can't.
When you compare the cost of ownership between many diseasals and petrols, there isn't that much in it to be fair.I wish I could live in petrol eutopia but I can't.
Diseasals 'were' often higher priced on the forecourt.
Diseasal fuel is more expensive at the pump.
MPG comparison to good performing petrols showed a saving but not fantastic enough to mean you'd get your money back within 12 years.
(I think I read 12 years in an article a while back being the length of time an owner had to keep the vehicle to 'break' even against a good performing petrol equivalent - based on annual average milage of 12,000)
If you can then extrapolate those cost to somebody doing 24,000 miles per year, then you break even at 6 years of ownership.
But even then, how many people own run around work-horse cars for 6 years these days, when everything is buy now pay later, upgrade after 3 years etc.
V88Dicky said:
There's no telling some people though.
A significant number of my colleagues at work have diesels for very short commutes, and I mean very short. One starts up his newish Audi 2.0 TDi, drives a straight road for about a mile and a half then reaches the works car park and shuts it down. I shudder to think the damage he'll be doing to that car, never mind the crap economy.
The winner by a country mile though (actually a quarter of a mile), is my BIL, who drives the 400yds or so to work, because "it beats walking". Car of choice? A Merc A180d
the masses are conned! cheap deals on diesels so the manufacturers can shift old stock while the whole industry is moving towards hybrid/electricA significant number of my colleagues at work have diesels for very short commutes, and I mean very short. One starts up his newish Audi 2.0 TDi, drives a straight road for about a mile and a half then reaches the works car park and shuts it down. I shudder to think the damage he'll be doing to that car, never mind the crap economy.
The winner by a country mile though (actually a quarter of a mile
), is my BIL, who drives the 400yds or so to work, because "it beats walking". Car of choice? A Merc A180d Very good news. Porsche and Diesel are two words that should have kept apart. When one thinks about all the hassle these car markers went through to build "competition" engine such as the V12 for Audi that raced in Le Mans ... when the common sense was as said above "Diesel belongs to the farm yard."
The funny thing is that again as everyone liked to get scr3wed in the UK, the price of Diesel (which was the most expensive in the world in the UK) is going to be taken over by Petrol.
The funny thing is that again as everyone liked to get scr3wed in the UK, the price of Diesel (which was the most expensive in the world in the UK) is going to be taken over by Petrol.
V88Dicky said:
Dale487 said:
This wasn’t a massive surprise - particularly as there was no Cayenne Diesel when the new one was launched & would have made the most sense of all the Porsche diesels.
Diesel is becoming less & less acceptable/attractive/viable for more & more of the population (personally it was only the tax advantages that made it appealing). I have a colleague who’s looking at a new Mercedes C class & they think hey should go diesel because they don’t rate the petrol options - but they do less than 10k a year, are a private buyer, drive into the city (who knows what the cost/rules will be within the life cycle of the car) & I’ve tried my best to convince them otherwise.
Modern petrol engines have most of the advantages of diesel without the disadvantages - my 1.4ACT Leon does 55+mpg on a long run, has most of the torque but a nicer power band as well as riding & handling better due to less weight over the front (the diesel aquivelent courtesy car I had didn’t ride or flow anywhere as nicely)
There's no telling some people though.Diesel is becoming less & less acceptable/attractive/viable for more & more of the population (personally it was only the tax advantages that made it appealing). I have a colleague who’s looking at a new Mercedes C class & they think hey should go diesel because they don’t rate the petrol options - but they do less than 10k a year, are a private buyer, drive into the city (who knows what the cost/rules will be within the life cycle of the car) & I’ve tried my best to convince them otherwise.
Modern petrol engines have most of the advantages of diesel without the disadvantages - my 1.4ACT Leon does 55+mpg on a long run, has most of the torque but a nicer power band as well as riding & handling better due to less weight over the front (the diesel aquivelent courtesy car I had didn’t ride or flow anywhere as nicely)
A significant number of my colleagues at work have diesels for very short commutes, and I mean very short. One starts up his newish Audi 2.0 TDi, drives a straight road for about a mile and a half then reaches the works car park and shuts it down. I shudder to think the damage he'll be doing to that car, never mind the crap economy.
The winner by a country mile though (actually a quarter of a mile
), is my BIL, who drives the 400yds or so to work, because "it beats walking". Car of choice? A Merc A180d V88Dicky said:
The winner by a country mile though (actually a quarter of a mile ), is my BIL, who drives the 400yds or so to work, because "it beats walking". Car of choice? A Merc A180d
The world view of people like that is so far from my own that I just cannot comprehend it.), is my BIL, who drives the 400yds or so to work, because "it beats walking". Car of choice? A Merc A180d Is this man in any way a lean, healthy, open-minded, worldly individual?
I totally get why this is happening, I'm sure a factor of WLTP and falling customer demand.
But...... is a (new EU6 compliant) diesel actually worse for the environment than an a comparable petrol?
Whilst it's very fashionable to bash diesel at present, are we really kidding ourselves that the alternative is actually better, maybe it's just a different pollutant (higher CO2, and I believe benzine?)
But...... is a (new EU6 compliant) diesel actually worse for the environment than an a comparable petrol?
Whilst it's very fashionable to bash diesel at present, are we really kidding ourselves that the alternative is actually better, maybe it's just a different pollutant (higher CO2, and I believe benzine?)
jjwilde said:
Good news! I was in London recently and it stinks of diesel, really shocking to an outsider. Can't believe you guys who live there just accept it.
It's not much better in Manchester. I own a diesel for historical reasons, but (deliberately) very rarely drive it on short, urban journeys and will hopefully find a suitable nearly new petrol to replace it.Ps. Manhattan is an island on the coast, so the wind probably does blow away more of the fumes too.
Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 20th February 16:41
Ninja59 said:
Question is how much better are hybrids at the wltp and rde?
Interesting move, but those that think petrol fumes are that much "better" need to research the dirty secret of many direct injection petrols IMO. That still in many cases dont have GPF's.
The Golf GTE has had its order book suspended, the 330e ceases production this summer - I think the answer is they don't fare so well.Interesting move, but those that think petrol fumes are that much "better" need to research the dirty secret of many direct injection petrols IMO. That still in many cases dont have GPF's.
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