Has anyone ever used a DSG / ZF and not liked it?

[LG9k]

I have the best of both worlds. Golf GTI with DSG and Honda S2000 with one of the finest gearshifts known to humankind.

I'll admit to never having used the paddles in the Golf, I just leave it in auto and waft around (often with the cruise control on). Most of my day-to-day driving is in either 30 limits with lots of stop-start or on motorways, as well as occasional evening trips into central London. The DSG makes for a very relaxing, easy driving experience - great for the simple job of getting from A to B.

The S2000 is marvellous for "going out for a drive", roof down with the engine singing away etc etc etc. It's bloody miserable to drive in stop start traffic in the rain.

Horses for courses.

[Fox-]

I would buy nothing but manual transmissions despite the fact the cars I liked were mostly auto. I spent months and months seeking out a 530i with a manual gearbox. 5 years later I spent 9 months waiting for a 335i M Sport with... a manual gearbox.

Now I won't buy anything that doesn't have a ZF 8 speed gearbox. It's absolutely stunning - I sought out one with the Sport Automatic Transmission to give paddles for manual control but never, ever use them - there is just no need. Fantastic.

We've got a manual box in the Mini which was great fun on deserted A and B roads but is insufferable and annoying once you got back into the daily grind...

I will never buy a car for myself with a manual transmission ever again.

[fatboy b]

GrumpyTwig said:

Jaguar steve said:

We had a new Golf GTi with a DSG 'box as a loan car for a fortnight after Mrs JS had her Pug GTi sideswiped some while ago.

I found it quite a challenge to drive smoothly and quickly as the concentration needed to rev match to get a jerk or lunge free change was distracting from everything else going on and after a couple of days playing with the paddles I just stuck it auto mode and let it get on with it.

Gearbox excepted the Golf was a nice drive and much better screwed together than the Pug but after experiencing a DSG for a few hundred miles I'd go for a normal manual, partly because I didn't like it much and partly I'd always have in mind how much wallet raping would go on when it goes pop .

Rev matching an automatic??

Correct. Some do on the paddles. But it’s done for you.

[Sticks.]

SMB said:

I went DSG 5 years ago on the daily ( I regularly drive 3 other manuals) mainly because on the commute ( stop start, m25 etc etc) I just got to my destination feeling more relaxed.

DSG is different to a traditional auto, you need to learn how to drive it, don't assume its the same as a conventional auto, thats what most people do and then complain it doesn't respond etc.

Never before have phrases such as prepare to go, be ready to stop, slow in, fast out been truer that when driving a DSG either in Auto or manual. If you drive it in the right way and give all the right signals to the electronics on arriving at a junction/bend it will be ready to drive out of it. Snatch last minute decisions will leave you hating the experience.

This sums up my experience, having had both. I'd add that getting to know when each of the range of options - Sport mode, manual or paddle change, holding in gear - makes all the difference. I'd imagine this will vary car to car.

I found they default to top a bit prematurely, though that could be me, as above.

Personally I prefer the DSG. 8 gears is too many imho in anything sporty and the paddle change of the ZF8 was a bit clunky compared to the DSG.

I'd recommend getting an extended test to try all the different functions.

[PorkInsider]

I had a 330d with the ZF8 - I really liked that and would struggle find fault with it, to be honest.

I've currently got an Audi with S-Tronic (DSG) and I'm not so keen on that. It's not as 'accurate' as the ZF in terms of deciding the right gear. It would be unfair to compare the smoothness as it's not a true auto, but it would lose there too.

I also currently have a BMW with M-DCT. That's fantastic. I tend to use it in manual and it's pretty faultless.

[Jaguar steve]

fatboy b said:

GrumpyTwig said:

Jaguar steve said:

We had a new Golf GTi with a DSG 'box as a loan car for a fortnight after Mrs JS had her Pug GTi sideswiped some while ago.

I found it quite a challenge to drive smoothly and quickly as the concentration needed to rev match to get a jerk or lunge free change was distracting from everything else going on and after a couple of days playing with the paddles I just stuck it auto mode and let it get on with it.

Gearbox excepted the Golf was a nice drive and much better screwed together than the Pug but after experiencing a DSG for a few hundred miles I'd go for a normal manual, partly because I didn't like it much and partly I'd always have in mind how much wallet raping would go on when it goes pop .

Rev matching an automatic??

Correct. Some do on the paddles. But it’s done for you.

They're meant to? I didn't realise that.

There must have been something amiss with the loan DSG GTi I had then because that certainly wasn't rev matching on the paddles which is why I was trying to do so without much success and compared to the auto mode most changes, especially big downshifts were extremely abrupt and jerky.

[Aids0G]

Having gone in the last couple of weeks from a ZF 9 speed in my old Evoque to a 6 speed manual in the i30N for the daily 70 miles or so, traffic is much more of a pain but not really the end of the world, cross country much more fun and greater interaction.

Have not had much experience of DSG so cant comment but the 8 speed ZF in my old mans 2017 XF diesel S is brilliant, I think its a better gearbox than the 9 speed by far.

[SMB]

Jaguar steve said:

They're meant to? I didn't realise that.

There must have been something amiss with the loan DSG GTi I had then because that certainly wasn't rev matching on the paddles which is why I was trying to do so without much success and compared to the auto mode most changes, especially big downshifts were extremely abrupt and jerky.

I would still say it's your driving style that causes such issues, maybe sub consciously changing throttle position as you would in a manual.

[e30m3Mark]

soad said:

e30m3Mark said:

I prefer a good old fashioned gear lever.

Three pedals too.

That's the best way as far as I'm concerned.

I had a paddle shift, all singing, dancing, rev matching M3 but nowhere near as satisfying as a proper heel and toe downshift.

[catso]

Funk said:

I disagree entirely with you about DSG.

I've got a new Golf R with the 7 speed box and it picks up instantly when pulling away, creeps perfectly in traffic or when manoeuvring and the last thing I'd describe it as is 'jerky'. It works great with the stop/start too.

Perhaps your experience is based on much older tech but I can't fault this DSG box.

Agreed, I have a 2014 Audi S4 with 7 speed DSG and it works great but I did previously have a 2004 Audi A3, 3.2 with the first generation 6 speed DSG and whilst it was good, it was grabby at low speeds, making it tricky to pull up close to something and it would sometimes 'hesitate' in traffic when slowing down and then accelerating - classic case being pulling up to a roundabout/junction, almost stopping and then deciding to go, at which point it could be in the wrong gear and take a while to sort itself out.

The later version on the S4 is far better in every respect with even 'S' mode being usable - on the A3, 'S' would always be revving too much for my liking.

[liner33]

My daily is a VAG petrol DSG and I also have a Jag XFR with the ZF8

The latter is indeed a lovely 'box, but it never feels as sporty as a dsg does , if I had to choose I'd go for the ZF8

Would not want a manual on a 600hp car , a 6 speed would need much longer gearing

[Dolf Stoppard]

Yes. Drove a Polo GTi with a DSG box and a Cayman with the PDK. I just didn't think it suited the nature of the cars. But I actually quite like the crappy CVT in my Lexus because I think it does work well with the car!

[fatboy b]

Jaguar steve said:

fatboy b said:

GrumpyTwig said:

Jaguar steve said:

We had a new Golf GTi with a DSG 'box as a loan car for a fortnight after Mrs JS had her Pug GTi sideswiped some while ago.

I found it quite a challenge to drive smoothly and quickly as the concentration needed to rev match to get a jerk or lunge free change was distracting from everything else going on and after a couple of days playing with the paddles I just stuck it auto mode and let it get on with it.

Gearbox excepted the Golf was a nice drive and much better screwed together than the Pug but after experiencing a DSG for a few hundred miles I'd go for a normal manual, partly because I didn't like it much and partly I'd always have in mind how much wallet raping would go on when it goes pop .

Rev matching an automatic??

Correct. Some do on the paddles. But it’s done for you.

They're meant to? I didn't realise that.

There must have been something amiss with the loan DSG GTi I had then because that certainly wasn't rev matching on the paddles which is why I was trying to do so without much success and compared to the auto mode most changes, especially big downshifts were extremely abrupt and jerky.

The XFR-S and F-Type do. Don’t think other XFs do.

[MrGTI6]

Jdjd1 said:

The DSG is as smooth as any other manufacturer's auto box

Totally disagree!

[liner33]

fatboy b said:

The XFR-S and F-Type do. Don’t think other XFs do.

The XFR and XKR do as well

[SMB]

MrGTI6 said:

Jdjd1 said:

The DSG is as smooth as any other manufacturer's auto box

Totally disagree!

By The very nature of a torque converter vs clutch packs , a dsg is unlikely to be smoother, as engine braking plays a part especially on down changes (3-2, 2-1) The torque converter smoothes some of that out. Actual experience will depend on engine type and gearbox specifics.

[cerb4.5lee]

PorkInsider said:

I had a 330d with the ZF8 - I really liked that and would struggle find fault with it, to be honest.

I've currently got an Audi with S-Tronic (DSG) and I'm not so keen on that. It's not as 'accurate' as the ZF in terms of deciding the right gear. It would be unfair to compare the smoothness as it's not a true auto, but it would lose there too.

This mirrors my experience of both as well, had the ZF8 in a 640d and the S-Tronic in a TTS...the ZF8 is much better overall IMO. It wouldn't surprise me if dual clutch gearboxes die out eventually, they're just too flawed.

[RobM77]

e30m3Mark said:

soad said:

e30m3Mark said:

I prefer a good old fashioned gear lever.

Three pedals too.

That's the best way as far as I'm concerned.

I had a paddle shift, all singing, dancing, rev matching M3 but nowhere near as satisfying as a proper heel and toe downshift.

It's a pleasurable part of driving as far as I'm concerned; choosing the gear to use to get at the right revs into, through and out of the corner; rev-matching on downchanges; doing smooth upchanges.

I have a racing sim on my PC where for most cars I get an open choice of 3 pedals and a 6 speed manual, or a paddle shift, and I never choose paddle shift because it detracts from the fun.

[jimPH]

Have a ZF8 in our M135i and it's a master piece. Best part of the car, really can't find fault with it. It did feel a bit hesitant from junctions for a nanosecond but that was cured with a throttle body adaption reset.

My GTR has the GR8 DTC, which has zero refinement and requires much more maintenance. I'm sure it shifts quicker and is a better box in full attack mode, but I doubt anyone would notice in day to day ownership, but you do notice the pitfalls of it. However, having a clunky noisy, race ready gearbox suits the character of the car so on this occasion it's the best big for the car.

For a daily drive though, ZF. I wouldn't go back to a manual for a daily. Quite happily have a manual for a sports car though.

[Scottie - NW]

How do they cope with tuning?

Is the DSG in the Golf Gti/R/Cupra good for 400bhp and 400 lb/ft?

Is the M135i ZF8 good for 450bhp and 500 lb/ft?

These seem realistic targets with bolt on mods.