Why is extra horsepower so expensive?

[Porridge GTI]

Or are people mugs?

[kambites]

Things are worth whatever people will pay for them.

[lyonspride]

Supply and demand, most of society looks down on people who try to improve their cars in any way other than fluffy dice in the mirror.
When items are of low demand, the manufacturing costs are higher per unit produced and therefore the end price much higher.

[98elise]

kambites said:

Things are worth whatever people will pay for them.

Agreed. When cars were quite basic more power meant you needed a bigger engine. That bigger engine was simply a bigger space in the engine in a lot of cases.

My current car is a bit like that. There are 3 power options which all use the same engine, but at different boost.

[HustleRussell]

Because marketing.

[MDMetal]

Is this not to do with emissions across the range as well as perceived value? Offer big engines for the prestige and reviews but guide most customers to the cheaper smaller engines.

[InitialDave]

In what sense? Higher-power versions of a car from the factory, or the cost of extracting more power from something afterwards?

[Speed addicted]

Surely horsepower is about the cheapest it's ever been, we live in a world where hot hatches have 300bhp and you can buy 500bhp estate cars.
You can get a used M5 or amg55 for relatively little cash, and if you're lucky it won't bankrupt you in the first year!

[Yipper]

Not always true.

Golf SE = 110bhp at £19k RRP = £176 per bhp.
Golf R = 310bhp at £33k RRP = £106 per bhp.

[Monkeylegend]

Yipper said:

Not always true.

Golf SE = 110bhp at £19k RRP = £176 per bhp.
Golf R = 310bhp at £32k RRP = £106 per bhp.

Stop posting sensible info, the sheeple won't like it

[Steve91]

It's not expensive though, is it?

A £300 remap can unlock huge gains on turbo cars. a MK5 Golf GTI gains around 40bhp (a 20% gain) and the BMW 330D can get huge power and torque gains from the same priced map.

[fido]

Cost vs Power is at best a linear relationship. Take an internal combustion engine - the internal forces change proportionally to the square of the engine speed. You could just make the engine bigger, then the rest of the car and components have to be made bigger as well. So then you have make weight savings which is exponentially expensive. I might have made some os this up, but you get the jist of it.

[Strudul]

Steve91 said:

It's not expensive though, is it?

A £300 remap can unlock huge gains on turbo cars. a MK5 Golf GTI gains around 40bhp (a 20% gain) and the BMW 330D can get huge power and torque gains from the same priced map.

Then there's stuff like the RS6 which can be remapped to >700bhp

[Danxr46]

HP isn’t necessarily what you want to chase but more Torque..... I had my 330d mapped to 290hp and is now putting out 600nm of torque which is 20 less than a GTR. The car 0-60 has dropped a few tenths to 5.9 and 100 in around 12.5 which is focus Rs/Golf R area but in gear the 330d due to torque will be away in no time. Torque matters more than hp

[daemon]

Steve91 said:

It's not expensive though, is it?

A £300 remap can unlock huge gains on turbo cars. a MK5 Golf GTI gains around 40bhp (a 20% gain) and the BMW 330D can get huge power and torque gains from the same priced map.

Yup.

I can get a remap done that'll take my Cooper S from 192BHP to 291BHP.

Seems like a gift to be honest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQnKVfP3Ofg

[HustleRussell]

Exactly, on modern forced induction you can remap and release greater power using the same hardware because fundamentally the hardware is often similar between the basic and the mid-range upspec version... so why don’t all the cars roll off the line with the more powerful spec which could be cheaply and easily integrated? Marketing. Package the upspec power output with some shiny bits and sportier bumpers and people will pay for it. Manufacturers make fk all money on base model cars, encouraging the consumer to pay more in order to get features which the manufacturer can cheaply an easily implement is where the margin is.

[DanCousins]

Danxr46 said:

Torque matters more than hp

No it doesn't.

Torque can be manipulated by gearing. If you want to know how fast a car is going to go from A to B, it's all about the horsies. If your car makes more power, it can do more work, more quickly and will therefore be faster.

[RobDickinson]

Usually manufacturers use more expensive parts and warrenty cover costs are higher.

Engine brakes, exhaust, transmission etc.

Not sure how that works today with just slight induction tweaks etc..

Any how people pay more because they deserve it. Many people I see driving hugely powerful amg mercs etc never use more power than the base model but they need to feel special.

[V8RX7]

Danxr46 said:

HP isn’t necessarily what you want to chase but more Torque.....

Torque matters more than hp

Really ?

What's faster a Traction Engine or a Fireblade ?

[HedgeyGedgey]

Look at the older hondas. Ep3's, dc5's etc have next to know torque. But would reel in a VXR or focus st of the same era