RE: Jaguar I-PACE vs Tesla Model X
Discussion
robemcdonald said:
Must be great to live in a black and white world where you’re either a hater or fan boy. 
I am neither thanks. In fact on the recent thread on the Tesla roadster I took a fairly anti-Tesla stance.
Jag says the I pace is launching this year.
Tesla originally said the model 3 would be in the UK this year.
Who is to say Jaguars claim won’t be similarly wrong? After all Tesla have more experience in manufacturing evs than Jaguar.
When it comes to electric vehicles I’ll believe the claims about availability and performance when I can physically go and buy one.
On the subject of availability though Tesla’s UK website lists a lot of new stock available now. So if you were so inclined you could go and buy one today.
Regarding the model 3. I really wanted one as my next car, but have given up as I don’t think there will be any meaningful quantities in the UK until around 2020. Personally I’m much more interested in the VW ID now.
Providing that comes out on time.......
The VW ID doesn't start production until Nov 2019... I am neither thanks. In fact on the recent thread on the Tesla roadster I took a fairly anti-Tesla stance.
Jag says the I pace is launching this year.
Tesla originally said the model 3 would be in the UK this year.
Who is to say Jaguars claim won’t be similarly wrong? After all Tesla have more experience in manufacturing evs than Jaguar.
When it comes to electric vehicles I’ll believe the claims about availability and performance when I can physically go and buy one.
On the subject of availability though Tesla’s UK website lists a lot of new stock available now. So if you were so inclined you could go and buy one today.
Regarding the model 3. I really wanted one as my next car, but have given up as I don’t think there will be any meaningful quantities in the UK until around 2020. Personally I’m much more interested in the VW ID now.
Providing that comes out on time.......
I don't see where your negativity is coming from for the I-Pace. Yes Tesla has more experience manufacturing EVs, but they're hardly worlds away from mass producing ICE cars, which Jaguar have much more experience than Tesla in. The principles of mass production are the same.
Yes I agree that the claimed performance is to be taken with a pinch of salt, but I just think you're being negative for the sake of it, when really this is a great opportunity for Jaguar (a British HQ'd company)
fezst said:
The VW ID doesn't start production until Nov 2019...
I don't see where your negativity is coming from for the I-Pace. Yes Tesla has more experience manufacturing EVs, but they're hardly worlds away from mass producing ICE cars, which Jaguar have much more experience than Tesla in. The principles of mass production are the same.
Yes I agree that the claimed performance is to be taken with a pinch of salt, but I just think you're being negative for the sake of it, when really this is a great opportunity for Jaguar (a British HQ'd company)
And the I Pace production has already started. I believe customers get cars in the next few months.I don't see where your negativity is coming from for the I-Pace. Yes Tesla has more experience manufacturing EVs, but they're hardly worlds away from mass producing ICE cars, which Jaguar have much more experience than Tesla in. The principles of mass production are the same.
Yes I agree that the claimed performance is to be taken with a pinch of salt, but I just think you're being negative for the sake of it, when really this is a great opportunity for Jaguar (a British HQ'd company)
GranCab said:
Saw a Tesla Model X with its front n/s wheel hanging off - no apparent reason apart from American build quality .... last time I saw similar was on a Ssanyong Rexton ...
Yes, I'm sure American build quality is the only logical explanation for a vehicle with a wheel hanging off. American roads must be an absolute nightmare with this happening left, right and centre.
I know it's the internet,and these are comments pages and so tradition has it that I post something meaninglessly negative... but... struggling to with this.
300 mile range means for 95% of my use wouldn't need to worry about charging infrastructure as it would be topped up at home/work again. It looks very good, looks spacious inside with those smaller overhangs.... is quick... is a very solid contender for next family bus when C class company car runs out.
Not cheap - seen £50k mentioned on the interweb, but it really isn't. Even modestly specced with what i'd consider my essentials for a car that price I got it to 75 grand (less 5 grand for the subsidy if that's still a thing i guess).
300 mile range means for 95% of my use wouldn't need to worry about charging infrastructure as it would be topped up at home/work again. It looks very good, looks spacious inside with those smaller overhangs.... is quick... is a very solid contender for next family bus when C class company car runs out.
Not cheap - seen £50k mentioned on the interweb, but it really isn't. Even modestly specced with what i'd consider my essentials for a car that price I got it to 75 grand (less 5 grand for the subsidy if that's still a thing i guess).
cidered77 said:
I know it's the internet,and these are comments pages and so tradition has it that I post something meaninglessly negative... but... struggling to with this.
300 mile range means for 95% of my use wouldn't need to worry about charging infrastructure as it would be topped up at home/work again. It looks very good, looks spacious inside with those smaller overhangs.... is quick... is a very solid contender for next family bus when C class company car runs out.
Not cheap - seen £50k mentioned on the interweb, but it really isn't. Even modestly specced with what i'd consider my essentials for a car that price I got it to 75 grand (less 5 grand for the subsidy if that's still a thing i guess).
Yeah they're still very expensive. I just spec'd one up to £83k without trying too hard and for that it buys a very well spec'd Audi RS4 with a LOT of fuel. I do love the tech though, and when it becomes more mainstream (affordable) it will be fantastic.300 mile range means for 95% of my use wouldn't need to worry about charging infrastructure as it would be topped up at home/work again. It looks very good, looks spacious inside with those smaller overhangs.... is quick... is a very solid contender for next family bus when C class company car runs out.
Not cheap - seen £50k mentioned on the interweb, but it really isn't. Even modestly specced with what i'd consider my essentials for a car that price I got it to 75 grand (less 5 grand for the subsidy if that's still a thing i guess).
How seriously we can take the results of this test is open to question. It is, after all, a Jaguar marketing video and the shaking of the head of the Tesla driver at the end of the second drag race was am-dram at best.
I think everyone is now fully aware that EVs can put in very good 0-60 times. Yes - we get it. Be in no doubt, they are quick.
What isn't tested here, and what is far more important to your average Joe - is range and charging times. And until somebody does a proper, real world test, in the cold, in the dark, in normal traffic, then all these claims and drag races are pointless.
Looking at these two offerings, the Jag looks far better than the Tesla, but neither are really SUVs are they?
I think everyone is now fully aware that EVs can put in very good 0-60 times. Yes - we get it. Be in no doubt, they are quick.
What isn't tested here, and what is far more important to your average Joe - is range and charging times. And until somebody does a proper, real world test, in the cold, in the dark, in normal traffic, then all these claims and drag races are pointless.
Looking at these two offerings, the Jag looks far better than the Tesla, but neither are really SUVs are they?
Personally don't care about ICE vs EV insofar as any emotional "connection" to an engine. If I did, perhaps I'd spend my spare time in a factory jizzing at the various production lines rolling past... FFS.
EV's are the future though, what with emissions being seen as the enemy. And yes, we all know the arguments, however I am curious to know just how far we will come in solar collection. I've heard it said enough energy lands on this planet in one day to power the planet for a year, if only we can harness it. Seems like a no brainer as far as where we should be looking to invest.
The other point is that cars like the Tesla already have amazing straight line performance. Cornering will come too, once the form factor reduces as it seems most industrial machines do; batteries will both shrink, and hold more power (whether thats power or energy density), so we should see the weight of these cars come down, and then acceleration, braking, and cornering performance will all improve further.
I dare say, there is more upside to EV's than to the ICEV.
Whether its Tesla, or anyone else, means nothing to me, beyond seeing the industry as a whole move forwards.
Even so, where are the flying cars we were promised. Now THAT would make me really sit up and take notice.
EV's are the future though, what with emissions being seen as the enemy. And yes, we all know the arguments, however I am curious to know just how far we will come in solar collection. I've heard it said enough energy lands on this planet in one day to power the planet for a year, if only we can harness it. Seems like a no brainer as far as where we should be looking to invest.
The other point is that cars like the Tesla already have amazing straight line performance. Cornering will come too, once the form factor reduces as it seems most industrial machines do; batteries will both shrink, and hold more power (whether thats power or energy density), so we should see the weight of these cars come down, and then acceleration, braking, and cornering performance will all improve further.
I dare say, there is more upside to EV's than to the ICEV.
Whether its Tesla, or anyone else, means nothing to me, beyond seeing the industry as a whole move forwards.
Even so, where are the flying cars we were promised. Now THAT would make me really sit up and take notice.
PixelpeepS3 said:
didnt the grand tour do a P100D model X vs an audi R8 V10+ where the tesla smashed it sideways?
P100D - different to a 100D. About 35k more...Jag comparing the most relevant Model X i guess. considering you'd spend 140k on a P100D X and 75k on an i Pace,that's fair enough i think
kambites said:
big_rob_sydney said:
Even so, where are the flying cars we were promised. Now THAT would make me really sit up and take notice.
I think that would make me want to go and hide in a deep cellar somewhere. Can you imagine the carnage if the general public got their hands on flying cars? 
big_rob_sydney said:
Personally don't care about ICE vs EV insofar as any emotional "connection" to an engine. If I did, perhaps I'd spend my spare time in a factory jizzing at the various production lines rolling past... FFS.
EV's are the future though, what with emissions being seen as the enemy. And yes, we all know the arguments, however I am curious to know just how far we will come in solar collection. I've heard it said enough energy lands on this planet in one day to power the planet for a year, if only we can harness it. Seems like a no brainer as far as where we should be looking to invest.
The other point is that cars like the Tesla already have amazing straight line performance. Cornering will come too, once the form factor reduces as it seems most industrial machines do; batteries will both shrink, and hold more power (whether thats power or energy density), so we should see the weight of these cars come down, and then acceleration, braking, and cornering performance will all improve further.
I dare say, there is more upside to EV's than to the ICEV.
Whether its Tesla, or anyone else, means nothing to me, beyond seeing the industry as a whole move forwards.
Even so, where are the flying cars we were promised. Now THAT would make me really sit up and take notice.
if you look up "Swanson's law" - the rate of improvement in cost vs. efficiency (from memory that's the ratio - too lazy to look it up!), performance of solar panels is accelerating every bit as quick as the microchip . If that continues exponentially (and most technologies with money to be made do), i've heard schools of thought that solar itself will pretty much sort the world's energy problem within 30 years - extreme view, but it's not as if so many of today's tech trends would have been considered realistic even 20 years ago..!EV's are the future though, what with emissions being seen as the enemy. And yes, we all know the arguments, however I am curious to know just how far we will come in solar collection. I've heard it said enough energy lands on this planet in one day to power the planet for a year, if only we can harness it. Seems like a no brainer as far as where we should be looking to invest.
The other point is that cars like the Tesla already have amazing straight line performance. Cornering will come too, once the form factor reduces as it seems most industrial machines do; batteries will both shrink, and hold more power (whether thats power or energy density), so we should see the weight of these cars come down, and then acceleration, braking, and cornering performance will all improve further.
I dare say, there is more upside to EV's than to the ICEV.
Whether its Tesla, or anyone else, means nothing to me, beyond seeing the industry as a whole move forwards.
Even so, where are the flying cars we were promised. Now THAT would make me really sit up and take notice.
If you compound that with improvements in energy storage technology then pretty easy to consider solar + home batteries will become the norm for majority of home energy ..... just as you can't build a new house without loft insulation now, you won't be able to fit non-solar roof tiles in the future, etc .
In other words, generating electricity could well get a lot cheaper, and more efficient - and whether we like it or not - ICE won't survive the next 20 years in the mainstream. i too much prefer to look forward and embrace it rather than cling onto the past....
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff