RE: Abarth Punto Evo SS: Spotted

RE: Abarth Punto Evo SS: Spotted

Author
Discussion

GTEYE

2,092 posts

209 months

Thursday 8th March 2018
quotequote all
Turbobanana said:
Jimmy Recard said:
GTEYE said:
The first car to be awarded zero stars by Euro NCAP

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/fiat/punto/102055/fia...

I think I'll pass thanks....
Because it doesn’t have autonomous braking or a seatbelt warning chime for seats other than the driver’s. I personally don’t mind having a car without those features
Quite. Seems an odd reason to dismiss something.

As regards why Fiat didn't update it - why bother? If you can sell as many as you need to, why spend R&D money on it? I suspect when this was made it was only lip service to offer anything larger than a 500 anyway.
This might explain why they might want to do something....

Fiat
Punto

European sales units
2017 49.688
2016 62.654
2015 79.202
2014 86.955
2013 104.000
2012 135.235
2011 220.545
2010 267.248
2009 327.447
2008 279.134
2007 377.783
2006 401.625

By way of comparison Ford shifted 256,000 Fiestas in 2017 in its "runout" year of the old model, so i'd argue the Fiat isn't a great commercial success, on what was once their biggest selling car.

Now that's odd

Turbobanana

6,160 posts

200 months

Thursday 8th March 2018
quotequote all
GTEYE said:
Turbobanana said:
Jimmy Recard said:
GTEYE said:
The first car to be awarded zero stars by Euro NCAP

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/fiat/punto/102055/fia...

I think I'll pass thanks....
Because it doesn’t have autonomous braking or a seatbelt warning chime for seats other than the driver’s. I personally don’t mind having a car without those features
Quite. Seems an odd reason to dismiss something.

As regards why Fiat didn't update it - why bother? If you can sell as many as you need to, why spend R&D money on it? I suspect when this was made it was only lip service to offer anything larger than a 500 anyway.
This might explain why they might want to do something....

Fiat
Punto

European sales units
2017 49.688
2016 62.654
2015 79.202
2014 86.955
2013 104.000
2012 135.235
2011 220.545
2010 267.248
2009 327.447
2008 279.134
2007 377.783
2006 401.625

By way of comparison Ford shifted 256,000 Fiestas in 2017 in its "runout" year of the old model, so i'd argue the Fiat isn't a great commercial success, on what was once their biggest selling car.

Now that's odd
Looks like natural and normal degradation of sales with the passage of time. I'd have been surprised if the figures looked radically different to these. If you can still sell ~50,000 units in your 12th year of production, with limited financial investment = happy days. By then the 500 had well and truly become the money-maker.

Another good example would be the 2005 Suzuki Swift I would imagine. Seemed to last forever.

viggyp

1,917 posts

134 months

Thursday 8th March 2018
quotequote all
GTEYE said:
Absolutely right.....but.....the world has moved on and the Punto largely hasn't.

It's more or less the same car since it came out in 2005.

Can anyone explain why it's not been updated for pretty much 2 lifecycles now?
Typical Fiat group to be honest which is why it hasn't been replaced. Like the Alfa Mito and Giuliettas, they just keep getting facelifted but not replaced. Jeez, Ferrari and Maserati replace their cars more frequently.

viggyp

1,917 posts

134 months

Thursday 8th March 2018
quotequote all
J2daG1990 said:
Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the Essesse package came with different alloys as well?

The alloys in the car in the pic are the standard ones that came with the Abarth Grande Punto.

The Essesse came with multi-spoke 17" alloy wheels which looked a lot better than the standard ones.

Edited by J2daG1990 on Thursday 8th March 13:04
Yeah, you're correct except the multispokes are 18", whereas the 500 Essesse has the same style but in 17".

Pointless fact but the Grande Punto is the only Fiat (that I know of) which has a different wheel stud pattern then all the other 4 stud Fiat wheel fitments!

Ian_C

193 posts

209 months

Thursday 8th March 2018
quotequote all
viggyp said:
GTEYE said:
Absolutely right.....but.....the world has moved on and the Punto largely hasn't.

It's more or less the same car since it came out in 2005.

Can anyone explain why it's not been updated for pretty much 2 lifecycles now?
Typical Fiat group to be honest which is why it hasn't been replaced. Like the Alfa Mito and Giuliettas, they just keep getting facelifted but not replaced. Jeez, Ferrari and Maserati replace their cars more frequently.
Indeed! Think of the cars that were in production and on sale in the UK when this Punto arrived in 2005 !?

Alfa 156 (97-06)
Audi TT (99-06)
Citroen Xsara Picasso (00-06)
Ferrari 550/575 (95-06)
Ford Galaxy (95-06)
Ford Mondeo (00-07)
Ford Ka (96-09)
Honda Civic (00-05)
Jaguar S type (99-06)
Jeep Grand Cherokee (99-05)
Maserati 3200/4200 (99-07)
Mercedes ML (98-05)
Peugeot 206 (98-06)
Renault Clio (98-05)
Skoda Fabia (00-07)
Toyota Yaris (99-06)
Vauxhall Zafira (98-05)
VW Lupo (98-05)

(yes I'm bored)

viggyp

1,917 posts

134 months

Thursday 8th March 2018
quotequote all
Ian_C said:
viggyp said:
GTEYE said:
Absolutely right.....but.....the world has moved on and the Punto largely hasn't.

It's more or less the same car since it came out in 2005.

Can anyone explain why it's not been updated for pretty much 2 lifecycles now?
Typical Fiat group to be honest which is why it hasn't been replaced. Like the Alfa Mito and Giuliettas, they just keep getting facelifted but not replaced. Jeez, Ferrari and Maserati replace their cars more frequently.
Indeed! Think of the cars that were in production and on sale in the UK when this Punto arrived in 2005 !?

Alfa 156 (97-06)
Audi TT (99-06)
Citroen Xsara Picasso (00-06)
Ferrari 550/575 (95-06)
Ford Galaxy (95-06)
Ford Mondeo (00-07)
Ford Ka (96-09)
Honda Civic (00-05)
Jaguar S type (99-06)
Jeep Grand Cherokee (99-05)
Maserati 3200/4200 (99-07)
Mercedes ML (98-05)
Peugeot 206 (98-06)
Renault Clio (98-05)
Skoda Fabia (00-07)
Toyota Yaris (99-06)
Vauxhall Zafira (98-05)
VW Lupo (98-05)

(yes I'm bored)
smile

Time is going too fast as I worked at a Fiat parts dept when the Alfa 156 first came out. Actually, I worked there when the Mk1 Punto was still being produced.

GTEYE

2,092 posts

209 months

Thursday 8th March 2018
quotequote all
Turbobanana said:
GTEYE said:
Turbobanana said:
Jimmy Recard said:
GTEYE said:
The first car to be awarded zero stars by Euro NCAP

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/fiat/punto/102055/fia...

I think I'll pass thanks....
Because it doesn’t have autonomous braking or a seatbelt warning chime for seats other than the driver’s. I personally don’t mind having a car without those features
Quite. Seems an odd reason to dismiss something.

As regards why Fiat didn't update it - why bother? If you can sell as many as you need to, why spend R&D money on it? I suspect when this was made it was only lip service to offer anything larger than a 500 anyway.
This might explain why they might want to do something....

Fiat
Punto

European sales units
2017 49.688
2016 62.654
2015 79.202
2014 86.955
2013 104.000
2012 135.235
2011 220.545
2010 267.248
2009 327.447
2008 279.134
2007 377.783
2006 401.625

By way of comparison Ford shifted 256,000 Fiestas in 2017 in its "runout" year of the old model, so i'd argue the Fiat isn't a great commercial success, on what was once their biggest selling car.

Now that's odd
Looks like natural and normal degradation of sales with the passage of time. I'd have been surprised if the figures looked radically different to these. If you can still sell ~50,000 units in your 12th year of production, with limited financial investment = happy days. By then the 500 had well and truly become the money-maker.

Another good example would be the 2005 Suzuki Swift I would imagine. Seemed to last forever.
It’s hardly a great business model though.

Would Apple be as successful if they had just kept churning out 1st Gen iPhones year after year? I think not.

The customers vote with their feet and Fiat’s have largely gone elsewhere.

dunnoreally

952 posts

107 months

Thursday 8th March 2018
quotequote all
One of my coworkers has one and she loves it to bits, especially since she's basically never seen another.

Trouble for the Abarth Punto, I think, is that when you're competition's first the Clio 197 and then the Fiesta ST, you've got to be a bit more than just good. List price was more than either of those too iirc, which probably didn't help.

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Thursday 8th March 2018
quotequote all
GTEYE said:
It’s hardly a great business model though.

Would Apple be as successful if they had just kept churning out 1st Gen iPhones year after year? I think not.

The customers vote with their feet and Fiat’s have largely gone elsewhere.
It's a great business model really. Tooling costs for a car are very expensive indeed, and so the longer you can keep the sheet metal the same (and they've never changed it for the Punto as far as I can tell) the better - it's effectively free money, especially given the price they're getting for them.

I would imagine they're not intending to replace it - they've got plenty of small crossovers in that sort of size anyway.

Squadrone Rosso

2,740 posts

146 months

Thursday 8th March 2018
quotequote all
GTEYE said:
The first car to be awarded zero stars by Euro NCAP

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/fiat/punto/102055/fia...

I think I'll pass thanks....
Seriously!

rastapasta

1,846 posts

137 months

Friday 9th March 2018
quotequote all
Tayto.king said:
The car in the picture is an abarth grande punto with the earlier more reliable/ less complicated t_jet engine, same as Abarth 500. I think there were only 360 of these brought in to the UK and only about 100 of these converted to esse esse spec.
Later spec abarth punto evo had the multi air engine, which although is impressive always felt very controlled compared to the 80's boost surge you get from the t_jet engines in the earlier spec Grade Pinto pictured.
I've owned both and prefer the Grande pinto.
are you Irish?? with that name I cant help but ask

GTEYE

2,092 posts

209 months

Friday 9th March 2018
quotequote all
Squadrone Rosso said:
GTEYE said:
The first car to be awarded zero stars by Euro NCAP

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/fiat/punto/102055/fia...

I think I'll pass thanks....
Seriously!
Well if other small car makers can keep up with the regulations, it's a poor showing from Fiat that the Punto lags so far behind its rivals.

ZX10R NIN

27,490 posts

124 months

Friday 9th March 2018
quotequote all
I like these in Grande Punto form they're a great old school hot hatch.

F1GTRUeno

6,335 posts

217 months

Friday 9th March 2018
quotequote all
GTEYE said:
Turbobanana said:
GTEYE said:
Turbobanana said:
Jimmy Recard said:
GTEYE said:
The first car to be awarded zero stars by Euro NCAP

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/fiat/punto/102055/fia...

I think I'll pass thanks....
Because it doesn’t have autonomous braking or a seatbelt warning chime for seats other than the driver’s. I personally don’t mind having a car without those features
Quite. Seems an odd reason to dismiss something.

As regards why Fiat didn't update it - why bother? If you can sell as many as you need to, why spend R&D money on it? I suspect when this was made it was only lip service to offer anything larger than a 500 anyway.
This might explain why they might want to do something....

Fiat
Punto

European sales units
2017 49.688
2016 62.654
2015 79.202
2014 86.955
2013 104.000
2012 135.235
2011 220.545
2010 267.248
2009 327.447
2008 279.134
2007 377.783
2006 401.625

By way of comparison Ford shifted 256,000 Fiestas in 2017 in its "runout" year of the old model, so i'd argue the Fiat isn't a great commercial success, on what was once their biggest selling car.

Now that's odd
Looks like natural and normal degradation of sales with the passage of time. I'd have been surprised if the figures looked radically different to these. If you can still sell ~50,000 units in your 12th year of production, with limited financial investment = happy days. By then the 500 had well and truly become the money-maker.

Another good example would be the 2005 Suzuki Swift I would imagine. Seemed to last forever.
It’s hardly a great business model though.

Would Apple be as successful if they had just kept churning out 1st Gen iPhones year after year? I think not.

The customers vote with their feet and Fiat’s have largely gone elsewhere.
There's a 500 on every street corner these days. They didn't go elsewhere, they just bought a different Fiat.

culpz

4,881 posts

111 months

Friday 9th March 2018
quotequote all
dunnoreally said:
One of my coworkers has one and she loves it to bits, especially since she's basically never seen another.

Trouble for the Abarth Punto, I think, is that when you're competition's first the Clio 197 and then the Fiesta ST, you've got to be a bit more than just good. List price was more than either of those too iirc, which probably didn't help.
They do at least have tunability on their side though. This era of hot-hatches were mainly N/A, which are great if you like that sort of thing, but those fiat turbo units are strong ad respond well to remaps. So, you can quite easily make the Abarth's quicker than their rivals for not much dosh.

I love my fast Clio's but the 197's were a bit of a disappointment compared to the 182's that they replaced. It was heavier, so needed to be revved out alot more due to the weight and were pretty woeful on juice in comparison. The 2.0 Fiesta ST's were more lukewarm as apposed to hot-hatches.

Rarity and having something a bit different plays a part too, for some.

Squadrone Rosso

2,740 posts

146 months

Friday 9th March 2018
quotequote all
GTEYE said:
Well if other small car makers can keep up with the regulations, it's a poor showing from Fiat that the Punto lags so far behind its rivals.
It (the Abarth) hasn’t been a current car for a number of years.

Passenger protection is fine. It doesn’t cater for dumb ass drivers who can’t concentrate or iPod zombies who walk out in front of it.

Using your logic, you wouldn’t drive a Mk1 Golf GTi or any older hot hatch / classic vehicle?

Mike335i

4,985 posts

101 months

Saturday 10th March 2018
quotequote all
Not really fussed about safety tech. It often just gets in the way of driving and is largely resolved by PAYING ATTENTION to what you are doing.

I would happily drive a zero star NCAP car, I would just need to take full responsibility for not crashing it.

sandys

207 posts

245 months

Monday 12th March 2018
quotequote all
GTEYE said:
The first car to be awarded zero stars by Euro NCAP

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/fiat/punto/102055/fia...

I think I'll pass thanks....
Many cars would fail now due to the tests reliance on software gadgetry, it was a 5 star car

J2daG1990 said:
Correct me if I am wrong but I thought the Essesse package came with different alloys as well?

The alloys in the car in the pic are the standard ones that came with the Abarth Grande Punto.

The Essesse came with multi-spoke 17" alloy wheels which looked a lot better than the standard ones.
Essesse pack on Abarth Grand Punto was new injectors, garret gt1446 turbo, remap, filter and back box, cross- drilled brake discs at the front and rear, high performance front brake pads, special lower (-15/20 mm) springs and 18” alloy wheels

Essesse pack on Abarth Punto Evo was filter, remap and back box (it already had a gt1446 turbo with multiair), 2 piece cross drilled floating rotors to aid unsprung weight (these cost a bit !! £800 for the discs) , high performance front brake pads, special lower (-15/20 mm) springs and 18” alloy wheels plus Koni Frequency Selectable Dampers.

both the same quoted power and both typically put out more power than quoted.

viggyp said:
Pointless fact but the Grande Punto is the only Fiat (that I know of) which has a different wheel stud pattern then all the other 4 stud Fiat wheel fitments!
Because it was a platform shared with GM Corsa D 4x100, that said Mito shared same platform and was 4x98...so who knows why really.

AGP shares the GM gearbox with Corsa VXR, APE has C653

car in advert doesn't appear to have cross drilled discs or the SS wheels

Used mine on track and in competition against its contemporaries (ST, clio etc.) more than holds its own, biggest drawback that you can't disable TC but with good rubber not an issue.


Edited by sandys on Monday 12th March 20:20