RE: BMW E30 M3: PH Heroes
Discussion
Im a little lost with some people saying they weren't that fast....in 1988 they were really fast from 0 to 60 and past that, especially when an xr4x4 or 2.8i capri or an RS turbo were doing the same speed in 7.7 sec or a opel manta gte cracking 60 in 9sec, I dont think these people were driving then to say they were slow, they were as fast as audi quattro to 60mph and faster to 100mph.....I raced an E30 M3 on the M25 in the summer of 1990, " I know the year because I was car valeting that summer and driving all sorts of cars that i wouldn't of been able to afford " and on the way to the car Autions in a E30 325i , I got left in its wake and at the same time my boss was in his non turbo 2.2 lotus Esprit and he couldn't keep with it either...so talk of them being slow is utter rubbish.
They are quick enough and handle well enough to do a 9 min Ring lap!
Thats on nothing more than Bilstein shocks and adjustable roll bars.
I'll openly admit I'm very biased when it comes to E30's in general as they are a big part of my life (serial owner of all types, repair and restore them for a living) but having driven (and worked on) pretty much every M car many times over I concur with the article that nothing BMW has ever made comes close. Maybe the E30 318iS but they just feel like a warmed over 318i with a slightly revier engine.
Enough has been said with regards to having to drive one properly to see what the fuss is all about.
BMW got it so right with the geometry and suspension revisions to the M3 that its really that noticeable when comparing them back to back with a normal E30 even without the better weight distribution of the 4 cylinder engine.
Back when they were new cars, legend has it that certain higher level staff at BMW UK's Bracknell head office with 325i Sports as company cars had the E30 M3's 5 stud hub suspension set up fitted.
Regardless of the anorak level of interest these cars have, referring back to the article about people showing interest at petrol station forecourts or pub carparks etc, thats something that seems to span any tidy E30 in this day and age by people from all walks of life.
Fantastic cars - they were quick for what they were when they were new. It isn't really relevant to compare them with current cars.
Sadly I never drove one and I don't think I'll get the chance now!
Still I did drive a manual 190E 2.3-16 Cosworth with the rare full leather trim that a trader mate had in the early 90s and once you got used to the dog-leg gearbox I thought it was fantastic. But the ride wasn't very Mercedes-like. If I'd understood exactly what it was I should have bought it - he had it less than a week so someone obviously worked it out!
Shortly after I drove a Sapphire Cosworth of his on a track day at Silverstone - that was distinctly underwhelming!
Sadly I never drove one and I don't think I'll get the chance now!
Still I did drive a manual 190E 2.3-16 Cosworth with the rare full leather trim that a trader mate had in the early 90s and once you got used to the dog-leg gearbox I thought it was fantastic. But the ride wasn't very Mercedes-like. If I'd understood exactly what it was I should have bought it - he had it less than a week so someone obviously worked it out!
Shortly after I drove a Sapphire Cosworth of his on a track day at Silverstone - that was distinctly underwhelming!
Onehp said:
Harji said:
Honeywell said:
So essentially the same weight, torque, power and performance of a Toyota GT86.
Just sayin’
And you've completely missed the point, and era.Just sayin’
Edited by Onehp on Saturday 10th March 15:09
Everything I read about the GT86 always ends in “needs more power” it I doubt that is necessary and I love the M3 so if the GT86 can even come close or dare I say it a better drive then I need to get behind the wheel of one.
Onedesi said:
Onehp said:
Harji said:
Honeywell said:
So essentially the same weight, torque, power and performance of a Toyota GT86.
Just sayin’
And you've completely missed the point, and era.Just sayin’
Edited by Onehp on Saturday 10th March 15:09
Everything I read about the GT86 always ends in “needs more power” it I doubt that is necessary and I love the M3 so if the GT86 can even come close or dare I say it a better drive then I need to get behind the wheel of one.
VR6 Eug said:
Im a little lost with some people saying they weren't that fast....in 1988 they were really fast from 0 to 60 and past that, especially when an xr4x4 or 2.8i capri or an RS turbo were doing the same speed in 7.7 sec or a opel manta gte cracking 60 in 9sec, I dont think these people were driving then to say they were slow, they were as fast as audi quattro to 60mph and faster to 100mph.....I raced an E30 M3 on the M25 in the summer of 1990, " I know the year because I was car valeting that summer and driving all sorts of cars that i wouldn't of been able to afford " and on the way to the car Autions in a E30 325i , I got left in its wake and at the same time my boss was in his non turbo 2.2 lotus Esprit and he couldn't keep with it either...so talk of them being slow is utter rubbish.
My mate's one proved a good bit quicker than my old 190bhp Alpina up to the legal limits on a run to LeMans some years back. Above those limits not so much, once drag takes effect and the six cylinder really got going (theoretically of course! 
)For me they both still felt pretty quick, probably because of the noise and sensations, even if in reality a contemporary E34 M5 was a whole league faster
Owned a Cecotto for over 4yrs in the late 90's, loved it. The longest I have owned a car to this day.
As said previously, maybe not the fastest by todays standards but 215 BHP back in 1989 when my car was new was no slouch. The car felt so easy to drive, you had to rev it to get the best out of it but as all you owners/ex owners know, on the twisty bits the car was in a class of its own, so planted and a pleasure to drive.
A great looking car that deserves it's classic status...
As said previously, maybe not the fastest by todays standards but 215 BHP back in 1989 when my car was new was no slouch. The car felt so easy to drive, you had to rev it to get the best out of it but as all you owners/ex owners know, on the twisty bits the car was in a class of its own, so planted and a pleasure to drive.
A great looking car that deserves it's classic status...
SidewaysSi said:
glasso said:
at these prices now who is actually buying them to drive them? nothing but a stock price or a gold bar now. sad.
Indeed. I wouldn't mind one but it certainly wouldn't be the first car I buy at current prices.Lots of more exciting cars for similar money.
Another facet of the rising prices and collector market is that some of the rarer models such as Sport Eve's, Cecotto's etc are now heading over to the states never to be seen again in the UK as they never got the more interesting models and they are now all over 25 years old so importing them is easy.
I know of a least two of the original 51 UK sold Sport evos that have been sold to EAG in the states and they have strict rules when purchasing cars from them such as not selling to people outside of the states.
Onedesi said:
s m said:
Certainly one mag did it, back in 2012
Thank you for that ??It would be good to understand why the GT86 is deemed underpowered yet the others aren’t - a test drive is on the cards methinks
Onehp said:
The article is spot on, the GT86 needs a few tweaks for greatness. But unlike the others, it was meant from the start to be a blank canvas for the owner to put their own twist on, and its driver shortcomings are easily fixed with an aftermarket scene that is truly massive and very helpful British forums...
And still a much cheaper Fiesta kicks it's arse...s m said:
morgrp said:
I was offered an 87 2.3litre in black for 6grand about 12 years ago - as it transpired I went for the cheaper Merc 190e 2.3-16 which I paid around 3grand. It was the more practical car being 4 door and RHD. As it transpires both have appreciated hugely in recent years but I would also say that the BMW engine was slightly underwhelming and dare I say it the Merc's Cosworth developed lump is more raw and racey than the BMW's - both fabulous cars though.
A good friend made the same decision a number of years ago......only he went for the 2.5-16. Same 200bhp as the M3, same box but with a multi-link rear end. Still has it now and they also, like the BMW and Ford, are rising quickly in valueI think, head and heart both vote for the M3, for me anyway, but all are superb cars, all look great, and the Merc possibly is the most rounded effort.
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