BMW Finance Decline
Discussion
Taaaaang said:
There are some people writing on this thread that need to take a really long hard look at themselves; and I don't mean the OP.
What is wrong with you lot?
Pathetic.
Yeah thanks again for another decent member fighting my corner.What is wrong with you lot?
Pathetic.
I know my borrowing for a depreciating M3 or 911 can hardly be seen as that sensible as it’s a want not a need.
However I feel there is a fine line between sensible & responsible of which I have been treading for a long time with relative success I.e I don’t have bad debt for any of this or causing any issues to anyone.
I appreciate all that has been put out by decent people in a polite manner regarding my score and future and past borrowing habits.
For the ones that brought it down into some kind of old money middle class jag XJ driving sheepskin coat wearing cock wars it was all a bit boring.
Derek 911 said:
Taaaaang said:
There are some people writing on this thread that need to take a really long hard look at themselves; and I don't mean the OP.
What is wrong with you lot?
Pathetic.
Yeah thanks again for another decent member fighting my corner.What is wrong with you lot?
Pathetic.
I know my borrowing for a depreciating M3 or 911 can hardly be seen as that sensible as it’s a want not a need.
However I feel there is a fine line between sensible & responsible of which I have been treading for a long time with relative success I.e I don’t have bad debt for any of this or causing any issues to anyone.
I appreciate all that has been put out by decent people in a polite manner regarding my score and future and past borrowing habits.
For the ones that brought it down into some kind of old money middle class jag XJ driving sheepskin coat wearing cock wars it was all a bit boring.
It does strike me as very odd that in the "real world" people do have credit card debt, do have car finance and dont have a world of savings yet on here seemingly 95% of people are mortgage and debt free. And yet we're told Facebook is where people build up fake lives for themselves....
And for this to be a motoring "enthusiast" forum, heaven forbid people stretch themselves to get the car they really want....
daemon said:
FWIW i'm wholly behind you also. The problem was you mentioned BMW & PCP and sadly thats red rags to a bull to a minority on here, who like to look smug and po-faced and sit in judgement of others with passive aggressiveness and condescending comments to "help" you, yet i would say if truth be told their (financial) lives are less than perfect.
It does strike me as very odd that in the "real world" people do have credit card debt, do have car finance and dont have a world of savings yet on here seemingly 95% of people are mortgage and debt free. And yet we're told Facebook is where people build up fake lives for themselves....
And for this to be a motoring "enthusiast" forum, heaven forbid people stretch themselves to get the car they really want....
If many of PH'ers you rant of were to financially leverage themselves in the way how the OP did, can you imagine the garage list of the average PH'er?It does strike me as very odd that in the "real world" people do have credit card debt, do have car finance and dont have a world of savings yet on here seemingly 95% of people are mortgage and debt free. And yet we're told Facebook is where people build up fake lives for themselves....
And for this to be a motoring "enthusiast" forum, heaven forbid people stretch themselves to get the car they really want....
Loving and aspiring for fast/flashy cars is one thing, projecting an image of having such cars is quite another...
daemon said:
Derek 911 said:
Taaaaang said:
There are some people writing on this thread that need to take a really long hard look at themselves; and I don't mean the OP.
What is wrong with you lot?
Pathetic.
Yeah thanks again for another decent member fighting my corner.What is wrong with you lot?
Pathetic.
I know my borrowing for a depreciating M3 or 911 can hardly be seen as that sensible as it’s a want not a need.
However I feel there is a fine line between sensible & responsible of which I have been treading for a long time with relative success I.e I don’t have bad debt for any of this or causing any issues to anyone.
I appreciate all that has been put out by decent people in a polite manner regarding my score and future and past borrowing habits.
For the ones that brought it down into some kind of old money middle class jag XJ driving sheepskin coat wearing cock wars it was all a bit boring.
It does strike me as very odd that in the "real world" people do have credit card debt, do have car finance and dont have a world of savings yet on here seemingly 95% of people are mortgage and debt free. And yet we're told Facebook is where people build up fake lives for themselves....
And for this to be a motoring "enthusiast" forum, heaven forbid people stretch themselves to get the car they really want....
As you say on a petrol head forum you can forgive me for the mistaken understanding that I may have been talking amongst friends with regard to high value vehicles and the best way to make myself more presentable to lenders.
I do find the piston heads attitude to depreciation on cars a bit strange, it’s a case of lets drive old cars cos it saves us money on depreciation & then throw stones at those cheap dicks who can’t afford to pay 50k cash for a new M3 anyway.
I’ve got a feeling the trouble and strife makes most of their decisions anyway which is why they need to come on here and vent.
TwinExit said:
daemon said:
FWIW i'm wholly behind you also. The problem was you mentioned BMW & PCP and sadly thats red rags to a bull to a minority on here, who like to look smug and po-faced and sit in judgement of others with passive aggressiveness and condescending comments to "help" you, yet i would say if truth be told their (financial) lives are less than perfect.
It does strike me as very odd that in the "real world" people do have credit card debt, do have car finance and dont have a world of savings yet on here seemingly 95% of people are mortgage and debt free. And yet we're told Facebook is where people build up fake lives for themselves....
And for this to be a motoring "enthusiast" forum, heaven forbid people stretch themselves to get the car they really want....
If many of PH'ers you rant of were to financially leverage themselves in the way how the OP did, can you imagine the garage list of the average PH'er?It does strike me as very odd that in the "real world" people do have credit card debt, do have car finance and dont have a world of savings yet on here seemingly 95% of people are mortgage and debt free. And yet we're told Facebook is where people build up fake lives for themselves....
And for this to be a motoring "enthusiast" forum, heaven forbid people stretch themselves to get the car they really want....
Loving and aspiring for fast/flashy cars is one thing, projecting an image of having such cars is quite another...
daemon said:
It does strike me as very odd that in the "real world" people do have credit card debt, do have car finance and dont have a world of savings yet on here seemingly 95% of people are mortgage and debt free. And yet we're told Facebook is where people build up fake lives for themselves....
This is the part that doesn't ring true for me either. Either PistonHeads genuinely doesn't represent a typical cross-section of society, or there are a lot of fibbers on here.Thankfully, it doesn't actually matter too much. Comparing your finances, or any other aspect of your life, to that of a complete stranger (and dare I say selectively worded or outright fabricated versions of reality some cases) doesn't get you anywhere. In fact, it's unhealthy.
TwinExit said:
daemon said:
FWIW i'm wholly behind you also. The problem was you mentioned BMW & PCP and sadly thats red rags to a bull to a minority on here, who like to look smug and po-faced and sit in judgement of others with passive aggressiveness and condescending comments to "help" you, yet i would say if truth be told their (financial) lives are less than perfect.
It does strike me as very odd that in the "real world" people do have credit card debt, do have car finance and dont have a world of savings yet on here seemingly 95% of people are mortgage and debt free. And yet we're told Facebook is where people build up fake lives for themselves....
And for this to be a motoring "enthusiast" forum, heaven forbid people stretch themselves to get the car they really want....
If many of PH'ers you rant of were to financially leverage themselves in the way how the OP did, can you imagine the garage list of the average PH'er?It does strike me as very odd that in the "real world" people do have credit card debt, do have car finance and dont have a world of savings yet on here seemingly 95% of people are mortgage and debt free. And yet we're told Facebook is where people build up fake lives for themselves....
And for this to be a motoring "enthusiast" forum, heaven forbid people stretch themselves to get the car they really want....
Loving and aspiring for fast/flashy cars is one thing, projecting an image of having such cars is quite another...
What planet are people on here living on, 30k lending is barely going to get you in a tricked up C class Mercedes these days this is the price of cars in the modern world is everyone in here just running stuff that’s 10 years old cos that’s what new cars cost and yeah I agree it’s a mugs game but the judgemental attitude of this place really stinks ‘can you imagine what the PH community could afford if they acted like the OP’ your as big a tosser as them.
Get debt for a car or don’t, if you can afford the monthly and you don’t default it’s up to you if you wanna hand the finance company 5-10% profit but the reality is there are lots of brand new cars on the road and if people are dropping 30-40k on them from new and then losing 25 of that over 3 years then well done to them they are ahead of me but I would imagine I’m not the only guy in the country leasing a depreciating asset it works for some of us.
Limpet said:
daemon said:
It does strike me as very odd that in the "real world" people do have credit card debt, do have car finance and dont have a world of savings yet on here seemingly 95% of people are mortgage and debt free. And yet we're told Facebook is where people build up fake lives for themselves....
This is the part that doesn't ring true for me either. Either PistonHeads genuinely doesn't represent a typical cross-section of society, or there are a lot of fibbers on here.Thankfully, it doesn't actually matter too much. Comparing your finances, or any other aspect of your life, to that of a complete stranger (and dare I say selectively worded or outright fabricated versions of reality some cases) doesn't get you anywhere. In fact, it's unhealthy.
Casually sitting at home whacking one out to a new episode of top gear as they compare latest M3 vs Merc AMG then fighting with themselves after it in a kinda ‘look at what you made me do’ kind of mindset.
The obvious remedy to their emotional episode would then be to come on PH and flame lesser mortals who don’t have the queens accountants on speed dial.
silentbrown said:
Interesting, thanks!
How is that disclosed? I naively thought the amount of tax I paid would be a confidential matter between me and HMRC...
OP: One other thing re: credit scores - get a free "second opinion" on your score from Noddle and/or ClearScore. You can't compare the numbers directly with the Experian one, but they may throw up other issues. My Experian score appears significantly "better" than the other two.
We would just ask the client for it if we felt we needed it. It’s no problem if they decline but obviously it ends there. How is that disclosed? I naively thought the amount of tax I paid would be a confidential matter between me and HMRC...
OP: One other thing re: credit scores - get a free "second opinion" on your score from Noddle and/or ClearScore. You can't compare the numbers directly with the Experian one, but they may throw up other issues. My Experian score appears significantly "better" than the other two.
Edited by silentbrown on Friday 23 March 15:59
With what we do now we don’t use credit scores. Personally, I don’t think they tell you all that much beyond a very basic view and now there are so many ‘agencies’ they all compete against each other to flog tat to plums. It’s a fantastic model because they know exactly what sort of stuff a customer buys and how to milk them.
The key for us these days is to simply liquidate a client’s leveraged portfolio long before it gets anywhere near to a negative balance while also stopping them from building a toxic book in the first instance. It just isn’t commercially viable to chase people for money.
Derek 911 said:
Clydesdale don’t ask for this so assume Alphera more stringent on this front, Clydesdale request bank statements only
Although that doesn’t mean they didn’t just download them from CH. Personally, I wouldn’t ask a potential client to send me their company accounts as they could send me whatever they like and I would be liable. I would download direct from CH. Clydesdale do quite a lot of specialist lending for company owners/directors at the moment so it’s wuite possible that they just download the accounts as a matter of course. DonkeyApple said:
silentbrown said:
Interesting, thanks!
How is that disclosed? I naively thought the amount of tax I paid would be a confidential matter between me and HMRC...
OP: One other thing re: credit scores - get a free "second opinion" on your score from Noddle and/or ClearScore. You can't compare the numbers directly with the Experian one, but they may throw up other issues. My Experian score appears significantly "better" than the other two.
We would just ask the client for it if we felt we needed it. It’s no problem if they decline but obviously it ends there. How is that disclosed? I naively thought the amount of tax I paid would be a confidential matter between me and HMRC...
OP: One other thing re: credit scores - get a free "second opinion" on your score from Noddle and/or ClearScore. You can't compare the numbers directly with the Experian one, but they may throw up other issues. My Experian score appears significantly "better" than the other two.
Edited by silentbrown on Friday 23 March 15:59
With what we do now we don’t use credit scores. Personally, I don’t think they tell you all that much beyond a very basic view and now there are so many ‘agencies’ they all compete against each other to flog tat to plums. It’s a fantastic model because they know exactly what sort of stuff a customer buys and how to milk them.
The key for us these days is to simply liquidate a client’s leveraged portfolio long before it gets anywhere near to a negative balance while also stopping them from building a toxic book in the first instance. It just isn’t commercially viable to chase people for money.
What grounds would you accept me on given my current situation and things which are within my ability to control over the next 6 months for example?
Derek 911 said:
In your professional and well educated opinion then if I wanted to sell/trade the porker and get into the M3 sometime soon what is my best strategy wether than be finance, saving up, secondhand f80 big deposit etc.
What grounds would you accept me on given my current situation and things which are within my ability to control over the next 6 months for example?
I suspect in DA's line of work people will be looking at criteria which don't necessary match those of a car credit provider.What grounds would you accept me on given my current situation and things which are within my ability to control over the next 6 months for example?
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
The most important thing is to prevent a total rout in residential property. I’m of the view that over the last 5 years the market has been incredibly well de-leveraged at all the key risk points so that it can be left to burn without State interference and for the most leveraged to be cleared out to make way for the up and coming in society. Card debt is big along with the zero finance wheeze and ‘nothing to pay’ scam but whether it’s big enough to crash the system and spin into other areas like property I don’t know. I don’t think so. The counter party risk is back with the lender and they should have the balance sheets to swallow it.
Car debt is monumental. It is far less regulated than other forms of retail debt and banks have leapt at is as other areas have been tightened up. At the same time, consumers have leapt at it as they’ve been able to borrow less and less on property and credit cards. But the average car debt is a 2/3 year contract that has limited liability for the consumer so the risk falls back into the industry who in the event of a catastrophic drop in buying power of the consumer would struggle to change their production lines quickly enough. But governments always bail out their car industries and frankly that’s not that big a concern in the U.K. these days.
Ultimately, it probably boils down to how much the US soils itself as consumers there face spiralling debt costs and how that knocks on to us.
But the real secret killer is that when you look at the key middle income demographic in the U.K. almost none of them have pensions of any merit and no means to maintain any kind of lifestyle remotely close to what they are living now once the world decides to stop paying them to work. That’s the real bomb. The majority of people have chosen to spend now the money they will need later. And at the rate the bottom end job market is going to be changed by new tech then no one knows what infill jobs will be available to 60 year olds in twenty years time. There probably won’t be till work, minicabbing or any of those jobs currently used by those who get retired earlier than they had planned or those without sufficient savings. I think it is going to be this that drives an enormous wedge between the two sides of the above average income segment.
DonkeyApple said:
The most important thing is to prevent a total rout in residential property. I’m of the view that over the last 5 years the market has been incredibly well de-leveraged at all the key risk points so that it can be left to burn without State interference and for the most leveraged to be cleared out to make way for the up and coming in society.
Card debt is big along with the zero finance wheeze and ‘nothing to pay’ scam but whether it’s big enough to crash the system and spin into other areas like property I don’t know. I don’t think so. The counter party risk is back with the lender and they should have the balance sheets to swallow it.
Car debt is monumental. It is far less regulated than other forms of retail debt and banks have leapt at is as other areas have been tightened up. At the same time, consumers have leapt at it as they’ve been able to borrow less and less on property and credit cards. But the average car debt is a 2/3 year contract that has limited liability for the consumer so the risk falls back into the industry who in the event of a catastrophic drop in buying power of the consumer would struggle to change their production lines quickly enough. But governments always bail out their car industries and frankly that’s not that big a concern in the U.K. these days.
Ultimately, it probably boils down to how much the US soils itself as consumers there face spiralling debt costs and how that knocks on to us.
But the real secret killer is that when you look at the key middle income demographic in the U.K. almost none of them have pensions of any merit and no means to maintain any kind of lifestyle remotely close to what they are living now once the world decides to stop paying them to work. That’s the real bomb. The majority of people have chosen to spend now the money they will need later. And at the rate the bottom end job market is going to be changed by new tech then no one knows what infill jobs will be available to 60 year olds in twenty years time. There probably won’t be till work, minicabbing or any of those jobs currently used by those who get retired earlier than they had planned or those without sufficient savings. I think it is going to be this that drives an enormous wedge between the two sides of the above average income segment.
It's always very interesting to read your posts! Card debt is big along with the zero finance wheeze and ‘nothing to pay’ scam but whether it’s big enough to crash the system and spin into other areas like property I don’t know. I don’t think so. The counter party risk is back with the lender and they should have the balance sheets to swallow it.
Car debt is monumental. It is far less regulated than other forms of retail debt and banks have leapt at is as other areas have been tightened up. At the same time, consumers have leapt at it as they’ve been able to borrow less and less on property and credit cards. But the average car debt is a 2/3 year contract that has limited liability for the consumer so the risk falls back into the industry who in the event of a catastrophic drop in buying power of the consumer would struggle to change their production lines quickly enough. But governments always bail out their car industries and frankly that’s not that big a concern in the U.K. these days.
Ultimately, it probably boils down to how much the US soils itself as consumers there face spiralling debt costs and how that knocks on to us.
But the real secret killer is that when you look at the key middle income demographic in the U.K. almost none of them have pensions of any merit and no means to maintain any kind of lifestyle remotely close to what they are living now once the world decides to stop paying them to work. That’s the real bomb. The majority of people have chosen to spend now the money they will need later. And at the rate the bottom end job market is going to be changed by new tech then no one knows what infill jobs will be available to 60 year olds in twenty years time. There probably won’t be till work, minicabbing or any of those jobs currently used by those who get retired earlier than they had planned or those without sufficient savings. I think it is going to be this that drives an enormous wedge between the two sides of the above average income segment.
DonkeyApple said:
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
The most important thing is to prevent a total rout in residential property. I’m of the view that over the last 5 years the market has been incredibly well de-leveraged at all the key risk points so that it can be left to burn without State interference and for the most leveraged to be cleared out to make way for the up and coming in society. Card debt is big along with the zero finance wheeze and ‘nothing to pay’ scam but whether it’s big enough to crash the system and spin into other areas like property I don’t know. I don’t think so. The counter party risk is back with the lender and they should have the balance sheets to swallow it.
Car debt is monumental. It is far less regulated than other forms of retail debt and banks have leapt at is as other areas have been tightened up. At the same time, consumers have leapt at it as they’ve been able to borrow less and less on property and credit cards. But the average car debt is a 2/3 year contract that has limited liability for the consumer so the risk falls back into the industry who in the event of a catastrophic drop in buying power of the consumer would struggle to change their production lines quickly enough. But governments always bail out their car industries and frankly that’s not that big a concern in the U.K. these days.
Ultimately, it probably boils down to how much the US soils itself as consumers there face spiralling debt costs and how that knocks on to us.
But the real secret killer is that when you look at the key middle income demographic in the U.K. almost none of them have pensions of any merit and no means to maintain any kind of lifestyle remotely close to what they are living now once the world decides to stop paying them to work. That’s the real bomb. The majority of people have chosen to spend now the money they will need later. And at the rate the bottom end job market is going to be changed by new tech then no one knows what infill jobs will be available to 60 year olds in twenty years time. There probably won’t be till work, minicabbing or any of those jobs currently used by those who get retired earlier than they had planned or those without sufficient savings. I think it is going to be this that drives an enormous wedge between the two sides of the above average income segment.
How did that pan out because last time I looked new car sales were way down demonstrating that people were capable of restraint and could react to risk?
Oh and isn't the car market a mere fraction of the mortgage market and isn't the main differentiator the fact that the finance company carries the risk in a crash not the individual like it is in a housing market crash?
And finally what's the issue if people aren't able to live to the same standard in their twilight years as they were in their earlier years? My old man is now 76 and not one f
k does he give about having a flash fast car at the door because he simply hadn't the ability any more to drive it. Nor does he jet off on foreign holidays because he's as the age where bus tours appeal more. And he's his mortgage paid off so no big outgoings there. Yes consideration is needed and we should always have on eye on our retirement plans but somebody fancying an m3 on a motoring forum isn't really justification for all the hand wringing and po faced responses the guy got.
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