Cars that made no impact or contribution to motoring
Discussion
Willy Nilly said:
The USA Fusion is a like big Mondeo with much more interesting (bigger) engines. I'd like one.
It is a Mondeo! I don't think the engines are that much to write home about. Standard engine is a 2.5 four cylinder and then you can have the 1.5 or 2.0 four cylinder Ecoboost. I think they just brought out a Sport model with a 2.7 V6 Ecoboost and AWD though. The Taurus is the bigger one. Still a FWD chassis and seems to be the default cop car in NA. I think that you can get one with a 3.5 V6 Ecoboost and AWD though.I think that the OP was referring to the UK version though. Kind of a jacked up mk5 Fiesta for old people?
Pebbles167 said:
I'm a massive Peugeot fan, but I think theot 307 deserves a place here. Worse in every way (apart from perhaps build quality) than the 306 it replaced.
And good god, just look at the state of it. What a piece of s
t.
Friend of mine works as a mechanic in a police garage. He always says that the Peugeot 306 was the last car that was police constable proof, and if they did manage to break one the mechs could fix it. And good god, just look at the state of it. What a piece of s
t. The 307? They pretty much self destructed without any help from a ham-handed PC! And the mechanics hated repairing them.
The 1980s Nissan Stanza was awful, as was the rest of the Nissan range then. It was anonymous and boring but I sometimes wonder if their total lack of appeal to significant tranches of the European car buying public was a contributory factor to Nissan's decision to build the factory in Sunderland and, later, design offices in Europe too. i.e. Since we clearly don't understand the market, we must get closer to it.
white_goodman said:
Willy Nilly said:
The USA Fusion is a like big Mondeo with much more interesting (bigger) engines. I'd like one.
It is a Mondeo! I don't think the engines are that much to write home about. Standard engine is a 2.5 four cylinder and then you can have the 1.5 or 2.0 four cylinder Ecoboost. I think they just brought out a Sport model with a 2.7 V6 Ecoboost and AWD though. The Taurus is the bigger one. Still a FWD chassis and seems to be the default cop car in NA. I think that you can get one with a 3.5 V6 Ecoboost and AWD though.I think that the OP was referring to the UK version though. Kind of a jacked up mk5 Fiesta for old people?
Vitorio said:
Evanivitch said:
If that was the reason for making it then I'd expect automatic gearbox (or CVT like the jazz) and rear parking sensors would be standard. Maybe power adjustable driver's seat or auto lights and wipers too? (Latter is an option).
Personally I would say the convenience to those with mobility issues is an aside to the design brief of "take a Clio, make it taller".
All those options you mention, save for the auto box, werent exactly normal in supermini land when the Clio or Modus were introduced, im not even sure you can buy a car in that size with power seats today.. Putting high end stuff in such a car would price it out of the market.Personally I would say the convenience to those with mobility issues is an aside to the design brief of "take a Clio, make it taller".
EDIT: also, the "take a clio, make it taller" brief seems to appeal to people who prefer a high point of view over the road (mostly women in my experience), exactly the same reason all those dreadfull SUVs seem to sell.
Remind me again, what's the title of the thread?
Heaveho said:
r11co said:
You hitched on to a throwaway line and derailed the thread for sts and giggles. That thought never occurred to me....
Ah, you see. Finally realised where you went wrong.ts and giggles. That thought never occurred to me....
How about catching up with the thread....
Heaveho said:
You weren't contributing to the thread for the reasons it was started, you contributed to knock the people already commenting.
Because there is no thread. Everything contributed so far is just someone's idea of a car they don't like - a point made by Vitorio, not me. I just happened to agree with it.Heaveho said:
Troll indeed. For the sake of the continuation of the thread, and everyone else boredom levels, I suggest we both step off now.
You were never on topic.
Try answering my point about cars that leave a mark on the conscience contributing in some way to motoring, even if it is because they were cars a segment of the populace disliked, That seems to be the criteria being applied by all the posters so far, but by definition that means the car made an impact and therefor are not applicable to the topic?
Discuss....
captain_cynic said:
If they were doing so well, why did they stop production?
Because for almost a decade the government had been paying money to Ford and Holden just to keep the factories open. When the tax money tap was turned off, they stopped Australian production. Sorry if reality tarnishes your rose tinted views of what were, and I'm being quite generous here, at best average cars.
Care to post the export stats of the Commodore, Falcon and Aurion (Camry)... You'll find that the only one exported in significant number was the Aurion. No-one wanted the Falcodores and no-one misses them now they're gone.
Also care to post what contribution or impact they made to motoring? As yet the closest we've got is a contribution to cinema and few outside Australia could identify the car as being a Falcon, almost no-one could identify the model without looking it up (XB GT for those playing along at home).
I don't have rose tinted specs for them I appreciate them for what they are. Ford and GM split their markets differently to Toyota so export figures are pointless, but to indulge how many of these were imported instead? Cadillac ATS/CTS, Mondeo/Fusion, Insignia/Vectra, the local's weren't buying the alternatives from Nissan or Toyota so in that segment they must've been something picking up the slack. Because for almost a decade the government had been paying money to Ford and Holden just to keep the factories open. When the tax money tap was turned off, they stopped Australian production. Sorry if reality tarnishes your rose tinted views of what were, and I'm being quite generous here, at best average cars.
Care to post the export stats of the Commodore, Falcon and Aurion (Camry)... You'll find that the only one exported in significant number was the Aurion. No-one wanted the Falcodores and no-one misses them now they're gone.
Also care to post what contribution or impact they made to motoring? As yet the closest we've got is a contribution to cinema and few outside Australia could identify the car as being a Falcon, almost no-one could identify the model without looking it up (XB GT for those playing along at home).
Edited by captain_cynic on Friday 23 March 11:38
Forming the mainstay of V8 Supercars since 1992 is enough of a contribution in my eyes, the Ford and Holden fans are renowned for their loyalty to the brands. We're never going to agree on this so I'm out.
Evanivitch said:
So it completely failed to change the market and it appeals to people that already had an option.
Remind me again, what's the title of the thread?
Oh so now the goalpost is at changing the market eh?Remind me again, what's the title of the thread?
From the OP
Gemmot said:
what cars have manufacturers made that truely no one will remember with fondness as they were so beige and pushed no boundaries...
By your newly dreamt up standards, very little cars actually had any impact or contribution... Edited by Vitorio on Friday 23 March 14:04
AlexIT said:
Don't tell me that in the UK you were not honoured by the delight of this car:
The almighty FIAT DUNA
It is said the -few- we could ever see on the road were gifted at TV-shows as no-one with a single brain cell would have ever considered to actually pay to have one.
Please tell me they did a Turbo IE version! I suspect not however...The almighty FIAT DUNA
It is said the -few- we could ever see on the road were gifted at TV-shows as no-one with a single brain cell would have ever considered to actually pay to have one.
Vitorio said:
Evanivitch said:
So it completely failed to change the market and it appeals to people that already had an option.
Remind me again, what's the title of the thread?
Oh so now the goalpost is at changing the market eh?Remind me again, what's the title of the thread?
From the OP
Gemmot said:
what cars have manufacturers made that truely no one will remember with fondness as they were so beige and pushed no boundaries...
By your newly dreamt up standards, very little cars actually had any impact or contribution... Edited by Vitorio on Friday 23 March 14:04
I literally remember the Modus because I learned to drive in one.
TommoAE86 said:
I don't have rose tinted specs for them I appreciate them for what they are. Ford and GM split their markets differently to Toyota so export figures are pointless, but to indulge how many of these were imported instead? Cadillac ATS/CTS, Mondeo/Fusion, Insignia/Vectra, the local's weren't buying the alternatives from Nissan or Toyota so in that segment they must've been something picking up the slack.
Forming the mainstay of V8 Supercars since 1992 is enough of a contribution in my eyes, the Ford and Holden fans are renowned for their loyalty to the brands. We're never going to agree on this so I'm out.
Heres the thing, unlike you I'm willing to consider evidence contrary to my view... if you can provide it. Forming the mainstay of V8 Supercars since 1992 is enough of a contribution in my eyes, the Ford and Holden fans are renowned for their loyalty to the brands. We're never going to agree on this so I'm out.
You seem unwilling to do this.
Also, Australians were buying foreign cars by the truckload. Stats from 2016. More Mazda 3's were sold than Commodores by over 10,000.
Toyota HiLux – 42,104 (up from 35,161)
Toyota Corolla – 40,330 (down from 42,073)
Hyundai i30 – 37,772 (up from 32,306)
Ford Ranger – 36,934 (up from 29,185)
Mazda3 – 36,107 (down from 38,644)
Toyota Camry – 26,485 (down from 27,654)
Holden Commodore – 25,860 (down from 27,770)
Mazda CX-5 – 24,564 (down from 25,136)
Mitsubishi Triton – 21,987 (down from 25,338)
Hyundai Tucson – 20,132 (up from 5390 [new model])
http://performancedrive.com.au/top-10-best-selling...
The commodore had no other selling points apart from being an American car made in Australia.
Now as others have pointed out, cars don't need to sell well, be popular or even be well known to have an impact on the world of motoring... But they do have to do something that sets them apart or is new or innovative that was adopted by the industry at large (or became a warning to the industry, like the Ford Pinto). I've asked you to tell me what the Falcon or Commodore did in that regard. I know their history fairly well (I have an relative that used to be a designer and engineer at Ford Australia in the 80's), nothing has ever been out of the ordinary with them.
As for the V8 supercars... Proves my point because no-one outside Australia watches it. I doubt it's going to be around for that much longer. As much as I like motorsport, I cant stand the V8 supercars because its so boring.
Evanivitch said:
So the Modus wasn't beige and it pushed boundaries? Which one?
I literally remember the Modus because I learned to drive in one.
The criterium isnt being beige and not pushing boundries, the criterium is not being remembered fondly (because of being beige and not pushing boundaries)I literally remember the Modus because I learned to drive in one.
Im fairly certain finding someone who thinks of the modus fondly isnt that hard.
r11co said:
99dndd said:
Limpet said:
I cannot think of a single thing it did better than the Cavalier it replaced, and was far less reliable, at least initially. Coolest door mirrors on the planet, mind.
For better or worse, you can't say that hasn't had an impact on UK motoring.
Pretty much my point exactly. Impact and contribution can also be negative, with a positive conclusion being a drive for improvement. Any car getting a mention in this thread (with a host of justification) is an instant fail WRT the brief.
This thread should be empty as any car that had no impact or contribution wouldn't be remembered, by definition.
The Vectra was only memorable at all because of the kicking that the most famous motoring journalist in the world gave it, and by many accounts wasn't as good as the car it replaced, never mind the class best. The Cavalier mk3 was a huge leap from the mk2 in most respects. Similarly, the Mondeo was in a different league to the Sierra, and moved the whole class on in a number of areas, particularly dynamics and safety. The Vectra simply didn't bring anything new to the party. Whether was as awful as Clarkson said is highly debatable, but it certainly wasn't interesting, and didn't push any boundaries.
Edited by Limpet on Friday 23 March 14:42
I think maybe having no impact must be that one manufacturer has made a car in the same segment as this no impact car and not thought about that car at ALL when looking for rivals in the same segment. eg if I was designing the new fiesta and didn't look at ALL at the corsa as a rival then that car is so insignificant that it hasn't changed designs at all
TWPC said:
Conceptual dead ends:
Phew, 6 pages in and someone actually posts something relevant to the thread title.I suppose innovative cars are doomed to failure, all the repmobiles/SUVs and people carriers getting savaged on here sell because they are what people want to buy. I think James May made a Car of the People on that very subject.
My pick
Evolutionary dead end.
Shiv_P said:
I think maybe having no impact must be that one manufacturer has made a car in the same segment as this no impact car and not thought about that car at ALL when looking for rivals in the same segment. eg if I was designing the new fiesta and didn't look at ALL at the corsa as a rival then that car is so insignificant that it hasn't changed designs at all
Right. Hence the inclusion of the BMW 5-series GT and the Citroen Pluriel above, neither of which inspired any imitators.J4CKO said:
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
jamei303 said:
The Montego was actually alright, drove well enough and carted plenty of eighties reps and the like up and down the country, the Sierra was generally a lumpen, lolloping thing unless you got a sporty one, the Cavalier was better but the handlign was scappy, Montego handled really well, I had a Manta GTE and a Montego seemed like a revelation after that, RWD and a bit of rally heritage didnt seem to help my one, mainly understeered but the Montego was planted and grippy.
But, we like to slag off our own stuff, they werent perfect by any stretch, prone to rust and mechanical gremlins but neither were they the rubbish some seem to make out then get all excitable about an original Mini or MK1 Escort like its the second coming, back in 86 or thereabouts, drivers of those old cars would have killed for the luxury of a new Montego 1.6 HL.
Even the bog standard 1.6 felt lively, handled well, and had a light, airy interior with loads of space and nice trim.
It's a shame they tended to start rotting into the ground after about 5 years.
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