RE: Shed of the Week: Fiat Coupe
Discussion
Nigel_O said:
Ah - despite me being a full-on Coupe enthusiast, I'd struggle to call the Coupe a "proper chassis". Yes, it can be made to handle exceptionally well, but it takes a fair bit of thought and consideration, as well as a few quid (I've probably spent about £4k making my 20vt stop and steer properly)
As with most coupes of the era, it was based on a fairly mundane family hatchback and suffered accordingly.
The Coupe uses basic MacPhersons & wishbones up front and trailing arms at the rear, so its hardly cutting edge. Hondas from the same era had a significantly more sophisticated suspension setup.
As for power, I agree that a low power Coupe is still fun to drive, but a big-power coupe has another dimension entirely and of course the slug of torque from a forced induction lump can also make for very relaxed driving (TBH, the 16v is a bit "busy" when pressing on - 3,500rpm at 70 mph, if I remember correctly)
Fair point, i wasnt so much calling the coupe a proper chassis (i wasnt aware of the specifics, but given the barchetta for instance is mostly punto, the basic suspension on the coupe doesnt surprise me in the least), as just making a general statement, if a car is fun to drive, itll be so even when not sporting over 200hp.As with most coupes of the era, it was based on a fairly mundane family hatchback and suffered accordingly.
The Coupe uses basic MacPhersons & wishbones up front and trailing arms at the rear, so its hardly cutting edge. Hondas from the same era had a significantly more sophisticated suspension setup.
As for power, I agree that a low power Coupe is still fun to drive, but a big-power coupe has another dimension entirely and of course the slug of torque from a forced induction lump can also make for very relaxed driving (TBH, the 16v is a bit "busy" when pressing on - 3,500rpm at 70 mph, if I remember correctly)
I can imagine a 20vt being a different animal to a 1.8 16v coupe though, just being able to floor it and launch away on a wave of torque will be quite different to trying to keep a smaller NA engine awake.
I still quite like these. Although when I realize this one is 22 years old it makes me feel like a fossil. Back in the late 90s a 9 second 0-60 mph time was still quite respectable.
Let's remember this is a 22 year old Italian car. It's going to have some gremlins, and I don't think many of us would be brave enough to run it as a daily driver and depend on it getting us to and from work. However, as a weekend toy this could be a lot of fun. Not a bad shed for 1350 quid, but I think you could probably knock a few quid off. If you're slightly handy with the spanners fixing up the faults shouldn't be too much of a challenge. Be prepared for the high parts prices should you need to buy anything from the mostly very horrible Fiat dealer network.
Let's remember this is a 22 year old Italian car. It's going to have some gremlins, and I don't think many of us would be brave enough to run it as a daily driver and depend on it getting us to and from work. However, as a weekend toy this could be a lot of fun. Not a bad shed for 1350 quid, but I think you could probably knock a few quid off. If you're slightly handy with the spanners fixing up the faults shouldn't be too much of a challenge. Be prepared for the high parts prices should you need to buy anything from the mostly very horrible Fiat dealer network.
MadDog1962 said:
I don't think many of us would be brave enough to run it as a daily driver and depend on it getting us to and from work..
I used to run my last Coupe for 30,000+ miles a year - it only ever let me down a handful of times over many years, which wasn't bad when you consider it was running double the standard power. I scrapped the shell at 246,000 miles and transplanted all the modded bits into a new shell, which as now done another 60,000 miles on top. Yes, its the Coupe equivalent of Trigger's Broom.....MadDog1962 said:
Be prepared for the high parts prices should you need to buy anything from the mostly very horrible Fiat dealer network.
Even now, Coupe owners generally stay away from main dealers, preferring to deal with one of the small number of well-known specialists dotted around the country. If you're close enough to a specialist, Coupe ownership can be somewhat less painful than you'd imagineruprechtmonkeyboy said:
They certainly haven’t aged well! Especially when compared to the Alfa GTV.
They have aged perfectly to my eye but think they are a real Marmite car, I love the shape, always have, still get a tingle when I see a Sprint blue Coupe Turbo, remember being skint with three small kids and my mate who was doing Y2K IT contract work turned up in a brand new Ink Black one.Though, have to say, I have a Mk1 TT now, which I prefer to the Coupe I bought, but then that didnt go that well
I had one in the same colour but a 5 cyl version. Engine sounded glorious. I had a great trip across some amazing alpine passes in Switzerland, lots of 2nd gear corners .. went across Europe in a Fiat with no breakdown cover and didn't need it! Loved that car.
Nice interior, comfy and practical with room in the back for grown ups. I slid about a lot on those leather seats. A few electrical gremlins.
It was very reliable for a few years.. Then let me down numerous times. Clutch slave cylinder went as I was approaching a busy roundabout. The throttle cable snapped on the A46 and I couldn't get one so I used a modified one off a push bike I think. Something bad happened on the back brakes can't remember exactly but cost hundreds to fix. She wouldnt start and it turned out a couple of sensors needing replacing costing hundreds to fix.
Finally on the A511 something terminal happened and the O/S front wheel fell off at 30 MPH and bounced over the road and she was written off !
My Mazda 6 MPS is turning out to be just as about reliable ..
Nice interior, comfy and practical with room in the back for grown ups. I slid about a lot on those leather seats. A few electrical gremlins.
It was very reliable for a few years.. Then let me down numerous times. Clutch slave cylinder went as I was approaching a busy roundabout. The throttle cable snapped on the A46 and I couldn't get one so I used a modified one off a push bike I think. Something bad happened on the back brakes can't remember exactly but cost hundreds to fix. She wouldnt start and it turned out a couple of sensors needing replacing costing hundreds to fix.
Finally on the A511 something terminal happened and the O/S front wheel fell off at 30 MPH and bounced over the road and she was written off !
My Mazda 6 MPS is turning out to be just as about reliable ..
Had a 5 cylinder non-turbo one of these which sounded great when pushed. Looked great in Portofino blue too (or purple as my wife called it!). Great looking car, surprisingly practical too. I was warned by the Alfa/Fiat Specialist I used to use NEVER to have the cambelt replaced as it was such a big job! He was joking of course, but I never had any issues with it in two years. Still miss it though.
I really like these! I've used my 1999 20V VIS as a daily driver for the past three and half years and it really works in the role. When I bought it at 83,000 miles (now 111,000) it was fifteen years old so I threw a fair chunk of money at it to bring it 'back up' a bit, so to speak - new radiator, exhaust, handbrake cables, tyres, battery and CHOD (coolant hose of death) and since then I've really enjoyed the drive and the reliability.
Structurally, mine seems well screwed together. Apart from the tray holding the sunroof blind (which rattles against the roof over washboard road surfaces) the car has literally zero rattles and the shell feels pretty stiff. The panelling is light though so you can expect supermarket trolley 'dinks' as a fact of life. I once picked up a stone chip on the leading edge of the bonnet and when I looked really closely I could see it was a tiny dent as well as a chip. I always try and park the car 'nose in' as that clamshell bonnet is a huge panel to replace and very difficult, if at all, to repair.
Mechanically, yes, it's a Tipo chassis but fortunately, with no more than 154 BHP, you're not going to overwhelm the front tyres very often! That said, it's not too slow once you get going and the VIS system keeps the torque curve 'perky' (especially cruising on motorways where the pick-up can be quite vivid) although a downside, perhaps BECAUSE of the Variable Induction System, is that the N/A engine feels a bit 'flattish' in the camshaft department. Yes, it will rev to 7000 RPM (making a very nice noise when it does so) but it never seems to sprint for the redline the way all my old Fiat/Lancia twin cams (from the 1970's/80's) used to enjoy doing. The one and only electrical gremlin I've experienced concerns the drive-by-wire throttle system which never feels as direct a link to the car's performance as a, yes, good old-fashioned throttle cable and mine very occasionally displays a slight "Oooh, where was I and where am I supposed to be?" habit following gear changes - a problem which obviously needs to be exorcised!
Very good engine though the 5-cylinder N/A version. Untemperamental, never uses oil or water and I can drive the 500 miles to and from my sister and brother-in-law's house in Truro on a single tank of fuel - and that's without driving as if I'm on an AA/RAC economy run. Lovely gearchange and great ratios in the box means it's no chore to work the performance that way and, going back to the chassis, perhaps the N/A 20V versions are slightly less nose-heavy (and thus better balanced) minus all the turbo gubbins (turbo, intercooler, Viscodrive etc).
The brakes are not the Brembo ones as fitted to the Turbo's but are well up to the car's performance and the ABS system is particularly well judged - rarely interferes except when absolutely necessary and usually then only just as the car's almost come to a standstill. Very reassuring.
The fifteen inch wheels (the Turbo's are sixteens) with taller profile tyres give you a slightly more comfortable ride but less grip although personally I've always preferred a little bit of 'drift' rather than the 'grip, grip, grip, gone' option!
There are lots of parts available in one form or another (NOS, 2nd hand, aftermarket etc) and my local garage has always been able to track down the necessary pretty quickly but I can recommend the enthusiastic Fiat Coupe specialists (Solo Italia, Midlands Car Servicing, FCSS etc) as they're really know the car's quirks and foibles which is also another reassuring factor for potential owners.
I may have been lucky in tracking down a car that had been well looked after but I've frequently heard it said that the N/A 20V is the pick of the bunch despite the obvious attractions of the Turbo versions. As you can probably deduce, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend these cars!
Structurally, mine seems well screwed together. Apart from the tray holding the sunroof blind (which rattles against the roof over washboard road surfaces) the car has literally zero rattles and the shell feels pretty stiff. The panelling is light though so you can expect supermarket trolley 'dinks' as a fact of life. I once picked up a stone chip on the leading edge of the bonnet and when I looked really closely I could see it was a tiny dent as well as a chip. I always try and park the car 'nose in' as that clamshell bonnet is a huge panel to replace and very difficult, if at all, to repair.
Mechanically, yes, it's a Tipo chassis but fortunately, with no more than 154 BHP, you're not going to overwhelm the front tyres very often! That said, it's not too slow once you get going and the VIS system keeps the torque curve 'perky' (especially cruising on motorways where the pick-up can be quite vivid) although a downside, perhaps BECAUSE of the Variable Induction System, is that the N/A engine feels a bit 'flattish' in the camshaft department. Yes, it will rev to 7000 RPM (making a very nice noise when it does so) but it never seems to sprint for the redline the way all my old Fiat/Lancia twin cams (from the 1970's/80's) used to enjoy doing. The one and only electrical gremlin I've experienced concerns the drive-by-wire throttle system which never feels as direct a link to the car's performance as a, yes, good old-fashioned throttle cable and mine very occasionally displays a slight "Oooh, where was I and where am I supposed to be?" habit following gear changes - a problem which obviously needs to be exorcised!
Very good engine though the 5-cylinder N/A version. Untemperamental, never uses oil or water and I can drive the 500 miles to and from my sister and brother-in-law's house in Truro on a single tank of fuel - and that's without driving as if I'm on an AA/RAC economy run. Lovely gearchange and great ratios in the box means it's no chore to work the performance that way and, going back to the chassis, perhaps the N/A 20V versions are slightly less nose-heavy (and thus better balanced) minus all the turbo gubbins (turbo, intercooler, Viscodrive etc).
The brakes are not the Brembo ones as fitted to the Turbo's but are well up to the car's performance and the ABS system is particularly well judged - rarely interferes except when absolutely necessary and usually then only just as the car's almost come to a standstill. Very reassuring.
The fifteen inch wheels (the Turbo's are sixteens) with taller profile tyres give you a slightly more comfortable ride but less grip although personally I've always preferred a little bit of 'drift' rather than the 'grip, grip, grip, gone' option!
There are lots of parts available in one form or another (NOS, 2nd hand, aftermarket etc) and my local garage has always been able to track down the necessary pretty quickly but I can recommend the enthusiastic Fiat Coupe specialists (Solo Italia, Midlands Car Servicing, FCSS etc) as they're really know the car's quirks and foibles which is also another reassuring factor for potential owners.
I may have been lucky in tracking down a car that had been well looked after but I've frequently heard it said that the N/A 20V is the pick of the bunch despite the obvious attractions of the Turbo versions. As you can probably deduce, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend these cars!
Had 2 x 20VT's - would probably still be driving the 1st if some fool had used the parking brake on their forklift...
Ran the 1st one for a couple of years & all it needed other than serviving & brakes was a new exhaust (Supersprint) & a temp. sensor that cost £20.
Was fast, handling was 'fun' & it was comfy for a family of 4, it was mainly the practicality that made me buy another one rather than a GTV V6 that I was considering instead.
Ran the 1st one for a couple of years & all it needed other than serviving & brakes was a new exhaust (Supersprint) & a temp. sensor that cost £20.
Was fast, handling was 'fun' & it was comfy for a family of 4, it was mainly the practicality that made me buy another one rather than a GTV V6 that I was considering instead.
I've had my 20 Valve Turbo for 15 years now. It got replaced as my daily driver 6 years ago when I worried it might start to get unreliable with 170k miles on it. I probably didn't need to worry as it was often used when its replacement was needed repair. Now on 202k miles it did suffer an engine failure at 198k. Can't complain too much though as it was on a competitive run at Harewood Hillclimb at the time - the main use it gets these days. It will be back out on Sunday for practice day so I'll give it a warm up tomorrow, did about 100 miles in it last Saturday and still enjoy every one of them. The electrical gremlins mine had when I got it have never got any worse and the only new one has been the heated rear window stopping working - that was about 3 or 4 years ago and I've not been bothered enough by it to investigate!
Great cars.
Great cars.
Limpet said:
Haven't had that pleasure, but if it's anything like the 156 V6, I know exactly where you are coming from.
Had this done on my 156 V6 and when handing over the £580 after the job was complete, the scratches all over the mechanics arms took the sting out of losing that wad of cash. J4CKO said:
I think these have lasted long enough to not be called shed with all that entails, they have passed through the shed phase, any decent ones now should be treated more as classics.
It's a very quirky design (which I like) and unlike anything else, built by one of the great names too.
Good examples must be getting pretty rare now, this is too good to be a shed
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