Are these Vloggers just a scam? SOL or Shmee etc? (Vol 2)

Are these Vloggers just a scam? SOL or Shmee etc? (Vol 2)

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AstonV

838 posts

54 months

Friday 11th January
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KHK said:
I don't feel bad for salomondrin, guys a prick and I lost all respect for him after the effspot incident. In regards to insurance, my guess is the Senna was probably financed so most likely it would have full coverage.
Full coverage yes, but the insurance and Mclaren will do a thorough investigation. Insurance is not going to automatically pay out a million dollars. And then there is that little problem of the additional $500,000.

Yes I watched the Effspot video, what a frivolous law suit. Salomondrin is not a good guy, that's for sure.

WarrenB

639 posts

66 months

Friday 11th January
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This whole Salomondrin Senna thing, has it been proven that it was actually a mechanical issue that caused the fire? Or could it have been something as simple as few dry leaves being sucked up with the aero, getting stuck somewhere and burning? Or even sabotage?

Shmee

7,262 posts

161 months

Friday 11th January
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Here's an interesting YouTube insight that most won't necessarily know about.

I pushed a video live at 18:00 this evening that featured my Heritage RS, not a particularly snappy one I will happily confess but at the exact same upload time on YouTube there was a video from Salomondrin titled "THIS IS WHY IM SELLING MY SPORTS CARS" and also from TGE "I FINALLY BOUGHT AN ASTON MARTIN!!" - both of course being quite clearly interesting and attractive in the sense of their content to a wide audience.

There are two aspects that are relevant to know in advance of this; firstly if you imagine the subscribers and audience here we are talked a huge crossover for car channels. I think if you drew a Venn diagram for all the channels you know, there would likely be a disturbingly high crossover and circles within others. The second is that the algorithms have recently become immensely engagement driven, and therefore the initial views you kick off with have a huge impact on what happens to that video down the line.

Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but when it's your business model this is one of the most significant issues and concerns when you don't know what's happening in advance. The result for me is that with no prior knowledge of the videos dropping, a video that I would have expected to get 15k views or more in the first hour ends up with a miserable 5-6k. If you extrapolate this out it probably changes it from 150k in 24hrs, to 60k instead and that's quite damaging in terms of the reach of that specific content which had time and money invested to make it, the algorithm around the channel in general for the next content that follows, and in some way that can't be specifically determined the damage in perception of the channel having a video not performing well.

The most frustrating part of it is that you cannot predict this kind of thing, you can't control it, and then there is absolutely nothing you can do about it when it happens. Of course no two videos are normally identical in structure and there are varying amounts of effort put into their planning, filming and editing, but the reality is the result can be directly influenced in a dramatic way based purely on another big channel going live with something more interesting at the same time. I was trying to relate this to TV but I think it's more predictable when you have the schedules for various outlets at the same time, but on YouTube everybody chops and changes and doesn't distribute this information in advance.

Perhaps it's a little bit of a rant on my behalf, but I figured this might actually be of interest to some readers of this thread as to the workings behind the scenes and how it's much more of an actual business running a YouTube channel than most realise.

Digger

11,206 posts

139 months

Friday 11th January
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. . . . but doesn't this balance out later in the weekend (in this example) when your regular viewers catch up with your video. Presumably Sal and TGE also experience a slight drop in initial views for similar reasons?!

I don't know what the fuss is about tbh. wink

Shmee

7,262 posts

161 months

Friday 11th January
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Digger said:
. . . . but doesn't this balance out later in the weekend (in this example) when your regular viewers catch up with your video. Presumably Sal and TGE also experience a slight drop in initial views for similar reasons?!

I don't know what the fuss is about tbh. wink
That's what I meant with the background as to how the algorithms are engagement driven; the future performance is always dictated to some extent by initial uptake. So if you lose views in the first minute, first hour etc as a result of a video clash, that lowers the views that video will get throughout eternity.

Even on a channel like mine, the majority of traffic is search and related lead, the actual subscribers loading new content amount for something less than 25% of views so even if those come back, they are a tiny fraction of the bigger picture.

RobDown

3,688 posts

76 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
Digger said:
. . . . but doesn't this balance out later in the weekend (in this example) when your regular viewers catch up with your video. Presumably Sal and TGE also experience a slight drop in initial views for similar reasons?!

I don't know what the fuss is about tbh. wink
If I interpret Tim's comments, i think what he's saying is that if there isn't an initial buzz around the video in the first hour or so (ie it gets lots of hits) then the algos behind the search engines don't push/recommend it to anyone else, or at least not to the same level. So it permanently impairs the views

I dont know how you realistically get around that. You could hold back a video and wait until after, say TGE, has published something big (knowing that he wont do 2 big reveals in two days). But that would lead to a pile-up of videos waiting to be published. Or you could co-ordinate releases with other YouTubers, but again, tricky to do when there's so many and so much content being published

Truckosaurus

7,253 posts

232 months

Friday 11th January
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I'm going to give Tim's Focus video a pity watch to help his numbers.

Butter Face

19,536 posts

108 months

Friday 11th January
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Truckosaurus said:
I'm going to give Tim's Focus video a pity watch to help his numbers.
I’m sure he would struggle by regardless rofl

peterattheboro

1,161 posts

131 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
Shmee said:
Here's an interesting YouTube insight that most won't necessarily know about.

I pushed a video live at 18:00 this evening that featured my Heritage RS, not a particularly snappy one I will happily confess but at the exact same upload time on YouTube there was a video from Salomondrin titled "THIS IS WHY IM SELLING MY SPORTS CARS" and also from TGE "I FINALLY BOUGHT AN ASTON MARTIN!!" - both of course being quite clearly interesting and attractive in the sense of their content to a wide audience.

There are two aspects that are relevant to know in advance of this; firstly if you imagine the subscribers and audience here we are talked a huge crossover for car channels. I think if you drew a Venn diagram for all the channels you know, there would likely be a disturbingly high crossover and circles within others. The second is that the algorithms have recently become immensely engagement driven, and therefore the initial views you kick off with have a huge impact on what happens to that video down the line.

Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but when it's your business model this is one of the most significant issues and concerns when you don't know what's happening in advance. The result for me is that with no prior knowledge of the videos dropping, a video that I would have expected to get 15k views or more in the first hour ends up with a miserable 5-6k. If you extrapolate this out it probably changes it from 150k in 24hrs, to 60k instead and that's quite damaging in terms of the reach of that specific content which had time and money invested to make it, the algorithm around the channel in general for the next content that follows, and in some way that can't be specifically determined the damage in perception of the channel having a video not performing well.

The most frustrating part of it is that you cannot predict this kind of thing, you can't control it, and then there is absolutely nothing you can do about it when it happens. Of course no two videos are normally identical in structure and there are varying amounts of effort put into their planning, filming and editing, but the reality is the result can be directly influenced in a dramatic way based purely on another big channel going live with something more interesting at the same time. I was trying to relate this to TV but I think it's more predictable when you have the schedules for various outlets at the same time, but on YouTube everybody chops and changes and doesn't distribute this information in advance.

Perhaps it's a little bit of a rant on my behalf, but I figured this might actually be of interest to some readers of this thread as to the workings behind the scenes and how it's much more of an actual business running a YouTube channel than most realise.
It could be because you're talking about PPF/Paint Protection again and apart from the talk about the Senna and GT (Congrats BTW) it's all that seems to have been discussed recently and people are bored?

Shmee

7,262 posts

161 months

Friday 11th January
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peterattheboro said:
It could be because you're talking about PPF/Paint Protection again and apart from the talk about the Senna and GT (Congrats BTW) it's all that seems to have been discussed recently and people are bored?
That is exactly why I referred to it in my original post as "not a particularly snappy one".

After 4,000 YouTube videos and an analytical background, I have a pretty good idea when it comes to these things and can estimate a video's performance incredibly accurately. However, this is the one factor that defeats me because it's totally unpredictable!

If you think of it this way; x people will open YouTube at a given point, if there are 2 new videos of equal strength then you'd see 1/2 of x, if yours was weaker than the other then you might see 1/3 of x. If however you have 5 videos at the same time and yours is the weakest, then you'll have 1/8th of x let's say - clearly significantly worse off.

It's something that's literally as simple as how well a video will perform being based on when it went live and who else uploaded at that same minute.

TorqueR

1,546 posts

80 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
Shmee said:
However, this is the one factor that defeats me because it's totally unpredictable!
I do hope that this doesn’t come across as rude but in regards to it being unpredictable, is it?

Tom mentioned multiple times that he will be getting a new car and that this new car will be revealed at 18:00 on Friday. He was asked if it was a new shape Suzuki Jimny as that is a car he is interested in but he’d confirmed that it wasn’t. With that in mind, you can make an educated guess that it’ll be something that isn’t mundane/boring.

So if you are aware of that, is there any merit in moving your upload time to say, 12:00 for a day or would the algorithms effect that negatively?

AJB1971

74 posts

23 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
Shmee said:
Here's an interesting YouTube insight that most won't necessarily know about.

I pushed a video live at 18:00 this evening that featured my Heritage RS, not a particularly snappy one I will happily confess but at the exact same upload time on YouTube there was a video from Salomondrin titled "THIS IS WHY IM SELLING MY SPORTS CARS" and also from TGE "I FINALLY BOUGHT AN ASTON MARTIN!!" - both of course being quite clearly interesting and attractive in the sense of their content to a wide audience.

There are two aspects that are relevant to know in advance of this; firstly if you imagine the subscribers and audience here we are talked a huge crossover for car channels. I think if you drew a Venn diagram for all the channels you know, there would likely be a disturbingly high crossover and circles within others. The second is that the algorithms have recently become immensely engagement driven, and therefore the initial views you kick off with have a huge impact on what happens to that video down the line.

Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but when it's your business model this is one of the most significant issues and concerns when you don't know what's happening in advance. The result for me is that with no prior knowledge of the videos dropping, a video that I would have expected to get 15k views or more in the first hour ends up with a miserable 5-6k. If you extrapolate this out it probably changes it from 150k in 24hrs, to 60k instead and that's quite damaging in terms of the reach of that specific content which had time and money invested to make it, the algorithm around the channel in general for the next content that follows, and in some way that can't be specifically determined the damage in perception of the channel having a video not performing well.

The most frustrating part of it is that you cannot predict this kind of thing, you can't control it, and then there is absolutely nothing you can do about it when it happens. Of course no two videos are normally identical in structure and there are varying amounts of effort put into their planning, filming and editing, but the reality is the result can be directly influenced in a dramatic way based purely on another big channel going live with something more interesting at the same time. I was trying to relate this to TV but I think it's more predictable when you have the schedules for various outlets at the same time, but on YouTube everybody chops and changes and doesn't distribute this information in advance.

Perhaps it's a little bit of a rant on my behalf, but I figured this might actually be of interest to some readers of this thread as to the workings behind the scenes and how it's much more of an actual business running a YouTube channel than most realise.
You could probably compare it to a film where the takings on the opening weekend are a good indicator of how it will perform over its lifetime.

I’m sure that post-traumatic algorithm disorder will become a recognised medical condition in the near future!

The latest video from Speed Academy mentions that YouTube are experimenting with a live service where viewers will be able to pay to have a face to face video chat with the channel host. I haven’t seen this mentioned before. Details are here -
https://youtu.be/3UV5Wcm0hQw?t=887

Beefmeister

15,431 posts

178 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
Recorded a podcast today at the Autosport Show with Marc, Tim’s business manager. Should go up in a week or two and I hope people watch it as it’s very interesting. Quite a good insight into how things work behind the scenes of running such a huge brand.

Shmee

7,262 posts

161 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
TorqueR said:
I do hope that this doesn’t come across as rude but in regards to it being unpredictable, is it?

Tom mentioned multiple times that he will be getting a new car and that this new car will be revealed at 18:00 on Friday. He was asked if it was a new shape Suzuki Jimny as that is a car he is interested in but he’d confirmed that it wasn’t. With that in mind, you can make an educated guess that it’ll be something that isn’t mundane/boring.

So if you are aware of that, is there any merit in moving your upload time to say, 12:00 for a day or would the algorithms effect that negatively?
Potentially; but I won't lie I am far too busy to follow social media - ironic isn't it!

Time of day is a tricky one, it depends where most of your audience lie, but on the outset just moving 30 minutes would save a lot of hassle!

Punio

70 posts

31 months

Friday 11th January
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIwfHU5zwno

Even the Carrera GT, but if that's what he needs to get himself in a better place, then good or him.

SL22

113 posts

73 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
A rather long video by a chap who has a RS3 who interviews a friend about his McLaren 570s ownership, with the fine detail of exact costs, I.e. £30k down £900 a month, etc. Decent insight into the ownership.

Punio

70 posts

31 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
Shmee said:
Here's an interesting YouTube insight that most won't necessarily know about.

I pushed a video live at 18:00 this evening that featured my Heritage RS, not a particularly snappy one I will happily confess but at the exact same upload time on YouTube there was a video from Salomondrin titled "THIS IS WHY IM SELLING MY SPORTS CARS" and also from TGE "I FINALLY BOUGHT AN ASTON MARTIN!!" - both of course being quite clearly interesting and attractive in the sense of their content to a wide audience.

There are two aspects that are relevant to know in advance of this; firstly if you imagine the subscribers and audience here we are talked a huge crossover for car channels. I think if you drew a Venn diagram for all the channels you know, there would likely be a disturbingly high crossover and circles within others. The second is that the algorithms have recently become immensely engagement driven, and therefore the initial views you kick off with have a huge impact on what happens to that video down the line.

Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but when it's your business model this is one of the most significant issues and concerns when you don't know what's happening in advance. The result for me is that with no prior knowledge of the videos dropping, a video that I would have expected to get 15k views or more in the first hour ends up with a miserable 5-6k. If you extrapolate this out it probably changes it from 150k in 24hrs, to 60k instead and that's quite damaging in terms of the reach of that specific content which had time and money invested to make it, the algorithm around the channel in general for the next content that follows, and in some way that can't be specifically determined the damage in perception of the channel having a video not performing well.
This is incredibly interesting. I think I am right in saying that because of the unforeseen clash which results in an lower viewing count overall it will also affect the next uploaded video as well. So expect if you had planned to release the next upload that you expected to do really well, you now will hold off until you've got a few, say relatively less expensive videos to get you back on track. So to maximise its potential.


PantsFire

519 posts

28 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
RobDown said:
Digger said:
. . . . but doesn't this balance out later in the weekend (in this example) when your regular viewers catch up with your video. Presumably Sal and TGE also experience a slight drop in initial views for similar reasons?!

I don't know what the fuss is about tbh. wink
If I interpret Tim's comments, i think what he's saying is that if there isn't an initial buzz around the video in the first hour or so (ie it gets lots of hits) then the algos behind the search engines don't push/recommend it to anyone else, or at least not to the same level. So it permanently impairs the views

I dont know how you realistically get around that. You could hold back a video and wait until after, say TGE, has published something big (knowing that he wont do 2 big reveals in two days). But that would lead to a pile-up of videos waiting to be published. Or you could co-ordinate releases with other YouTubers, but again, tricky to do when there's so many and so much content being published
That is really stty, I get that Youtube don't want to put links in front of people they're less likely to click but surely they could track the Venn Shmee mentioned, register that car fans are unlikely to click all three today and consider pushing the weakest performer to viewers tomorrow or later in the week.

Shmee

7,262 posts

161 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
Punio said:
This is incredibly interesting. I think I am right in saying that because of the unforeseen clash which results in an lower viewing count overall it will also affect the next uploaded video as well. So expect if you had planned to release the next upload that you expected to do really well, you now will hold off until you've got a few, say relatively less expensive videos to get you back on track. So to maximise its potential.

100% correct.

PantsFire

519 posts

28 months

Friday 11th January
quotequote all
Punio said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIwfHU5zwno

Even the Carrera GT, but if that's what he needs to get himself in a better place, then good or him.
It's sad to see him so shaken, he said "I'm talking to someone" so I take that to mean he's seeing a shrink, and being that shaken it's probably what he needs to do so good for him.
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