Are these Vloggers just a scam? SOL or Shmee etc? (Vol 2)
Discussion
I do watch some of the YouTube guys, but if I was wanting to buy a car, I'd take their opinion with a pinch of salt.
I used to watch quite a few Joe Achilles videos mainly because I was looking at an M135/140. He seems to have moved on a bit and is getting invited to launches and getting cars to 'review'. On one hand, far play to him for doing so, but he always seems overly enthusiastic about all of them which feels a bit like not wanting to piss of Audi, Mercedes etc which I understand, but it's biased.
For a review, I'd listen more to a Chris Harris than a you tuber mainly because they have a history of doing it so there is an element of trust there.
I have enjoyed Jay Emm's videos on older performance hot hatches recently - looking back at a 182, JCW etc.
I used to watch quite a few Joe Achilles videos mainly because I was looking at an M135/140. He seems to have moved on a bit and is getting invited to launches and getting cars to 'review'. On one hand, far play to him for doing so, but he always seems overly enthusiastic about all of them which feels a bit like not wanting to piss of Audi, Mercedes etc which I understand, but it's biased.
For a review, I'd listen more to a Chris Harris than a you tuber mainly because they have a history of doing it so there is an element of trust there.
I have enjoyed Jay Emm's videos on older performance hot hatches recently - looking back at a 182, JCW etc.
Shmee said:
This is far from the first time snide remarks have been made, and sadly I suspect it won't be the last because a lot of the older school media just simply don't understand the new social era and how it works.
Bit of a ballsy claim to be honest. Just because they have criticisms with the platform doesn't mean they don't understand it. Now who comes across as bitter?KillerHERTZ said:
Just listened to that podcast, CH does come across rather bitter about the current situation with a slight Chip on his shoulder. IMO
I wouldn't say bitter exactly. He seems clearly pissed at the idea of these guys reviewing cars and saying thee are amazing as they dare not say anything else for fear they get blacklisted and lose a revenue stream. I'm sure this is nothing new and people back in the day likely did it to yo stay in favour with manufacturers.
If he is seeing opportunities for car reviewers drying up while the cheer leaders get all the invites then he has a point that it is killing the car review industry and making the reviews as reliable as an amazon review.
If I felt my industry was being ruined by something I too may speak out about it regardless of if it was impacting me directly.
Rogue86 said:
Shmee said:
This is far from the first time snide remarks have been made, and sadly I suspect it won't be the last because a lot of the older school media just simply don't understand the new social era and how it works.
Bit of a ballsy claim to be honest. Just because they have criticisms with the platform doesn't mean they don't understand it. Now who comes across as bitter?Rogue86 said:
Shmee said:
This is far from the first time snide remarks have been made, and sadly I suspect it won't be the last because a lot of the older school media just simply don't understand the new social era and how it works.
Bit of a ballsy claim to be honest. Just because they have criticisms with the platform doesn't mean they don't understand it. Now who comes across as bitter?Shmee etc are the What HiFi of the car review world.
There is a possible counterargument for at least part of it, in that unlike a professional journalist, if you're doing stuff on a an amateur/part time/for fun kind of basis, you may pick and choose what you drive a bit more. If you're not being paid for doing it, then I can well imagine you're not going to spend your time driving something you think will be rubbish, and that has a knock-on effect of meaning you seem more positive about what you do drive.
But that kind of goes out the window when you're being invited on prestige "events" and so on by manufacturers, and if they're doing that with "influencers", while "real" journalists and actual potential customers are being put to the back of the bus in comparison, you can see how that would seem a little bit off to people in those latter groups.
Maybe it's an interesting question for "brand manager" types? What's the optimisation on potential reduced opportunities compared to seeming like you're a genuine tell-it-like-it-is reviewer by occasionally turning around and saying "sorry, this is a bag of w
k, and everyone raving about it has some serious Emperor's New Clothes going on"?
Also, if people actually broadcast when they're being shunned for being honest about cars/brands, maybe exposing the poor practice can lead to more people being able to have that honesty. It was Harris who got himself put in the naughty corner by Ferrari, wasn't it, by laying out how they tried to manage the review process?
But that kind of goes out the window when you're being invited on prestige "events" and so on by manufacturers, and if they're doing that with "influencers", while "real" journalists and actual potential customers are being put to the back of the bus in comparison, you can see how that would seem a little bit off to people in those latter groups.
Maybe it's an interesting question for "brand manager" types? What's the optimisation on potential reduced opportunities compared to seeming like you're a genuine tell-it-like-it-is reviewer by occasionally turning around and saying "sorry, this is a bag of w
k, and everyone raving about it has some serious Emperor's New Clothes going on"?Also, if people actually broadcast when they're being shunned for being honest about cars/brands, maybe exposing the poor practice can lead to more people being able to have that honesty. It was Harris who got himself put in the naughty corner by Ferrari, wasn't it, by laying out how they tried to manage the review process?
Rogue86 said:
DannyScene said:
I don't think there's anything bitter in shmee's comment, factual yes, bitter no.
Care to expand on that? Otherwise it looks like you're just blindly agreeing with Shmee based on nothing.Edited by Rogue86 on Monday 19th August 12:06
To me chris harris comments come across as quite pathetic, there's a bunch of people reviewing cars getting a big audience and doing their own thing, I don't understand why he feel the need to chip in and have a dig
Edited by DannyScene on Monday 19th August 12:54
Edited by DannyScene on Monday 19th August 13:15
Shmee said:
Chris Harris isn't a fan of me, and has made numerous tweets and Instagram posts making that very clear. The last time I was near him I said hello and he blanked me, which is a shame given I used to respect what he was capable of doing.
Did you greet him with ‘Hi Chris I’m Shmee’ 
CharlieH89 said:
Shmee said:
Chris Harris isn't a fan of me, and has made numerous tweets and Instagram posts making that very clear. The last time I was near him I said hello and he blanked me, which is a shame given I used to respect what he was capable of doing.
Did you greet him with ‘Hi Chris I’m Shmee’ DannyScene said:
Sorry I'd assumed it was quite clear I agree the 'old school' car journos don't really 'get' how the new school of car reviewers are doing things and that Shmee doesn't come across as bitter at all imo
That doesn't really go beyond "I agree" though. Most of the top-level car journos these days have their own YT channels as well, so I'm lost as to how they wouldnt understand how it works? I get that CH may have a chip on his shoulder and I can understand why. Saying that it stems from his lack of understanding of how a platform that he uses works doesnt hold much water.
DannyScene said:
Sorry I'd assumed it was quite clear I agree the 'old school' car journos don't really 'get' how the new school of car reviewers are doing things and that Shmee doesn't come across as bitter at all imo
To me chris harris comments come across as quite pathetic, there's a bunch of people reviewing cars getting a big audience and doing their own thing, I don't understand why he feel the need to chip in and have a dig
Had you said "subjective" rather than "factual" it would make more sense. To me chris harris comments come across as quite pathetic, there's a bunch of people reviewing cars getting a big audience and doing their own thing, I don't understand why he feel the need to chip in and have a dig
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 19th August 12:54
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 19th August 13:15
Whilst most YouTubers are using clickbait titles and the repetitive 'Shall I buy/I've bought/I've sold' videos and legacy media journos are getting the hump about it, Matt Watson is getting 300k + views for 'Best Small Family cars 2019' so there is still clearly a market for people just reviewing cars in a mildly entertaining fashion..
jonm01 said:
Whilst most YouTubers are using clickbait titles and the repetitive 'Shall I buy/I've bought/I've sold' videos and legacy media journos are getting the hump about it, Matt Watson is getting 300k + views for 'Best Small Family cars 2019' so there is still clearly a market for people just reviewing cars in a mildly entertaining fashion..
I always assumed CarWow (and the like) would get decent view counts because the reviews will always be pretty relevant. Someone after a 5 year old Focus will get a good idea of that the car is like by watching one of the older videos, but I was surprised at just how many hits the new videos get too! Do the influencers influence much - I'd always assumed they were just 'window dressing' / free adverts for the car companies but nothing that would materialise in sales [maybe the odd one or two?]
If I wanted to get another car I already have a vague idea and Harris et al would be my go-to to get the realistic impressions of it.
I quite like Doug DeMuro's stuff just for watchability, all sorts of cars [Trabant to AM Lagonda] which he pokes around in to find the idiosyncrasies and so on, plus Jay Leno for, well, it's Jay Leno.
If I wanted to get another car I already have a vague idea and Harris et al would be my go-to to get the realistic impressions of it.
I quite like Doug DeMuro's stuff just for watchability, all sorts of cars [Trabant to AM Lagonda] which he pokes around in to find the idiosyncrasies and so on, plus Jay Leno for, well, it's Jay Leno.
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