Are these Vloggers just a scam? SOL or Shmee etc? (Vol 2)

Are these Vloggers just a scam? SOL or Shmee etc? (Vol 2)

Author
Discussion

fridaypassion

4,555 posts

173 months

Monday 9th September
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I work in the trade and its 110% not harder to get finance. The deals get crazier!

There's no doubt at all that Brexit has kicked the market square in the nuts over this last year and I would think it's a moment of clarity for people that with prices on used dropping there's virtually no safe supercar to buy at the moment so it's the security of knowing where you are with depreciation that's gone. Being able to get in and out of amazing cars for £1000 a month with no loss has been a gift for some content creators but that era is over now at least at the moment.

Im told that there are plans afoot to start doing proper affordability checks on finance in the next year or two. That will have a bit of an effect on the top end of the market if they ever bring it in. At the moment its largely self certification and we know what that did to the housing market.

It will bounce back though. There's an enormous amount of money being made on these pcp and finance deals and there will be another invention along to prop the market up before too long.


Smacko

38 posts

20 months

Monday 9th September
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KHK said:
TGE's former friend Anishvin said he's cancelling his 812 and SVJ orders in his latest upload citing the falling supercar market and concerns with the economy. I'm thinking lenders are getting stricter and residuals are falling which is making it harder to finance these cars.
It’s not this at all, considering the clown that most of these guys will be using for finance, they will get it easily.

Shmee

7,227 posts

158 months

Monday 9th September
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There is no discussion that ordering a new 812 or SVJ is a great way to depreciate £100k over 1 or 2 years so depending how much that amount of money means to the individual it might make them think twice. The days where supercars can behave as sensible investments is quickly collapsing, outside of anything that is genuinely really special. For the longer term it might turn out to be viable but again nobody knows if cultural norms will turn towards "combustion engine shaming" and a sense of guilt for driving cars that pollute in the same way such a thing is happening with flight.

I don't expect cars like the new McLaren Speedster, the Aston Martin Valhalla, or the Ferrari SF90 to be sold out because quite frankly we are spoiled with far too many of these type of things on the market, particularly considering the economy, and of course the UK is the worst place to be in these terms. I'm struggling to move a car myself and I know countless people on both sides - some where their cars just haven't moved or seen a relevant offer in months, and others getting away with crazy low balls beneath asking prices of all sorts of things.

Taking out a finance package itself isn't the problem, for many it will be come when working out what to do with negative equity when they need to get out and that can become very dangerous rather fast. I wouldn't worry too much about most of the established YouTubers because of course incomes cover this kind of thing quite easily, I'd be more concerned for those trying to break through and thinking that's the best way to do it while barely clocking any views.

KHK

477 posts

29 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
Shmee said:
There is no discussion that ordering a new 812 or SVJ is a great way to depreciate £100k over 1 or 2 years so depending how much that amount of money means to the individual it might make them think twice. The days where supercars can behave as sensible investments is quickly collapsing, outside of anything that is genuinely really special. For the longer term it might turn out to be viable but again nobody knows if cultural norms will turn towards "combustion engine shaming" and a sense of guilt for driving cars that pollute in the same way such a thing is happening with flight.

I don't expect cars like the new McLaren Speedster, the Aston Martin Valhalla, or the Ferrari SF90 to be sold out because quite frankly we are spoiled with far too many of these type of things on the market, particularly considering the economy, and of course the UK is the worst place to be in these terms. I'm struggling to move a car myself and I know countless people on both sides - some where their cars just haven't moved or seen a relevant offer in months, and others getting away with crazy low balls beneath asking prices of all sorts of things.

Taking out a finance package itself isn't the problem, for many it will be come when working out what to do with negative equity when they need to get out and that can become very dangerous rather fast. I wouldn't worry too much about most of the established YouTubers because of course incomes cover this kind of thing quite easily, I'd be more concerned for those trying to break through and thinking that's the best way to do it while barely clocking any views.
Very well put.

The SVJ isn't a shock for me, Lamborghini built too many for it be a true limited edition car and the MSRP made no sense whatsoever because in some markets the SVJ is pushing a million+ dollars. It also didn't help when dealers lied about allocations and made it seem like the car was going to be more limited than it is. And it's not only in the UK where dealers are dealing with cancelled orders and cars piling up. In the US the major dealers are dealing with the same.

Here's a clip from a few days ago, it's a local SVJ owner who went on a rant about his dealer and the current situation with the market:

https://streamable.com/80ps5

The surprise for me has been the 812. I was under the impression this car had a massive wait list and you basically the chosen one if got an allocation but it doesn't seem to be the case. The silver lining for you Tim is the Ford GT seems to be a holding up well and will probably hold up well for the foreseeable future and I same could be said about same with the Senna not that your selling either.


Smacko

38 posts

20 months

Tuesday 10th September
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What did the guy with the SVJ really expect? Most likely he would have been coming out of a Aventador S , he would have had murders getting rid of that (having watched the market for aventador s’s for a while it’s scary watching what they are doing).

So yeah, people need to sharpen up. To be fair to anishvin, he’s made the right choice. I don’t think he’s sold his Aventador S yet (it’s been at Mayfair prestige for about a year) so makes sense he cannot fund the SVJ.

clarky92

157 posts

50 months

Tuesday 10th September
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Shmee said:
There is no discussion that ordering a new 812 or SVJ is a great way to depreciate £100k over 1 or 2 years so depending how much that amount of money means to the individual it might make them think twice. The days where supercars can behave as sensible investments is quickly collapsing, outside of anything that is genuinely really special. For the longer term it might turn out to be viable but again nobody knows if cultural norms will turn towards "combustion engine shaming" and a sense of guilt for driving cars that pollute in the same way such a thing is happening with flight.

I don't expect cars like the new McLaren Speedster, the Aston Martin Valhalla, or the Ferrari SF90 to be sold out because quite frankly we are spoiled with far too many of these type of things on the market, particularly considering the economy, and of course the UK is the worst place to be in these terms. I'm struggling to move a car myself and I know countless people on both sides - some where their cars just haven't moved or seen a relevant offer in months, and others getting away with crazy low balls beneath asking prices of all sorts of things.

Taking out a finance package itself isn't the problem, for many it will be come when working out what to do with negative equity when they need to get out and that can become very dangerous rather fast. I wouldn't worry too much about most of the established YouTubers because of course incomes cover this kind of thing quite easily, I'd be more concerned for those trying to break through and thinking that's the best way to do it while barely clocking any views.
Absolutely hit the nail on the head Tim.

Combustion engine shaming. Attitudes are shifting on the daily basis. Even Paul made a comment regarding his Merci a few videos back.

PorkInsider

3,603 posts

86 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
Butter Face said:
Interesting list here from the DM, highlights are

Number 44 - MrJWW
Number 50 - Sam STG

No Shmee, bet you’re gutted fella rofl or not eh??

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7440455/B...
Well I've never felt older than I did while looking at that list.

I knew who Nadiya Hussain is and I've heard of JWW (via this thread) but other than that, not a Scooby Doo who they all are.

I'm going to have a look at Colin Furze, though. Looks like he might have interesting stuff.

NickCQ

2,039 posts

41 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
KHK said:
TGE's former friend Anishvin said he's cancelling his 812 and SVJ orders in his latest upload citing the falling supercar market and concerns with the economy. I'm thinking lenders are getting stricter and residuals are falling which is making it harder to finance these cars.
Noticed this with the 911R too - around launch people were talking about values approaching £1 M, but you could now pick one up for just over £300k.

S11Steve

5,459 posts

129 months

Tuesday 10th September
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PorkInsider said:
I'm going to have a look at Colin Furze, though. Looks like he might have interesting stuff.
Understatement of the year!! Jet powered mobility scooters, a bunker in is garden, dodgem car with a motorbike engine, and of course, his huge jet powered butt so he could fart at France - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMzAS9SsMBw

And all whilst wearing a shirt and safety tie.




Joey Deacon

1,653 posts

121 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
S11Steve said:
PorkInsider said:
I'm going to have a look at Colin Furze, though. Looks like he might have interesting stuff.
Understatement of the year!! Jet powered mobility scooters, a bunker in is garden, dodgem car with a motorbike engine, and of course, his huge jet powered butt so he could fart at France - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMzAS9SsMBw

And all whilst wearing a shirt and safety tie.
Totally agree, his videos such as this appeal to my inner 14 year old destructive self.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsRot0p7ObY

He even built his own wall of death out of old pallets and years later set fire to it.

AJB1971

64 posts

20 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
Shmee said:
There is no discussion that ordering a new 812 or SVJ is a great way to depreciate £100k over 1 or 2 years so depending how much that amount of money means to the individual it might make them think twice. The days where supercars can behave as sensible investments is quickly collapsing, outside of anything that is genuinely really special. For the longer term it might turn out to be viable but again nobody knows if cultural norms will turn towards "combustion engine shaming" and a sense of guilt for driving cars that pollute in the same way such a thing is happening with flight.

I don't expect cars like the new McLaren Speedster, the Aston Martin Valhalla, or the Ferrari SF90 to be sold out because quite frankly we are spoiled with far too many of these type of things on the market, particularly considering the economy, and of course the UK is the worst place to be in these terms. I'm struggling to move a car myself and I know countless people on both sides - some where their cars just haven't moved or seen a relevant offer in months, and others getting away with crazy low balls beneath asking prices of all sorts of things.

Taking out a finance package itself isn't the problem, for many it will be come when working out what to do with negative equity when they need to get out and that can become very dangerous rather fast. I wouldn't worry too much about most of the established YouTubers because of course incomes cover this kind of thing quite easily, I'd be more concerned for those trying to break through and thinking that's the best way to do it while barely clocking any views.
I think it was bound to happen when the speculative element left the market. Once things begin to turn, it can lead to an overcorrection.

There were some red flags. Remember that Supercar Investment Club? Those sort of schemes tend to signal the top of the market.

A few years ago you made a video discussing used cars. The bit that stood out to me was when you mentioned how much SLS Coupes had increased in price -
https://youtu.be/66LMpFUdB7M?t=376

It didn’t sound sensible that the standard version of a recently discontinued model could increase that much in price. I took it as an indication that the market was overheating. You did remark that it was crazy, but as time goes on people start to regard it as normal. Those with a different view are regarded as being out of touch.

The 911R was another example. With 991 units produced it wasn’t that rare, but prices rocketed.

I’m sure that encouraged a lot of people to enter the market. They regarded buying the latest supercar as an investment. Finance was easy to come by, you only needed a small deposit, and interest rates were exceptionally low.

I’ve mentioned before about how many Performantes are currently for sale. My perception is that a lot of people bought these after seeing what happened to the price of the Speciale, TDF, R and GT3 RS, etc.

I think Tom’s old Aventador S is on the market and has been since June last year.

Economic cycles are always going to come to an end, for one reason or another, and bubbles are always going to burst. From your point of view, business still seems to be growing rapidly so it’s less of a concern. The last 10 years have been an exceptionally good period of time to be a car vlogger, from an economic point of view.

It will be interesting to see what happens next. Interest rates are still very low so this may just be a correction, a return to normality. The problem is that nobody knows. That low ball offer may seem attractive in a few months.


Edited by AJB1971 on Tuesday 10th September 10:22

ferrisbueller

23,396 posts

172 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
NickCQ said:
Noticed this with the 911R too - around launch people were talking about values approaching £1 M, but you could now pick one up for just over £300k.
More to do with Porsche's communication with respect to the discontinuation of manual gearboxes elevating the 911R to cult status. They then announced manual GT3s.....

KHK

477 posts

29 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
The Aventador S brand new were been sold with a discount so it's no wonder they're sitting on the used market. In fact almost all Aventadors are dropping atm and will continue to drop as the replacement is nearing. The SV seems to have stabilized but it's going to take one desperate seller for prices to tumble again.

Craig_89

124 posts

121 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
It was obvious about 18 months - 2 years ago that the car market was over inflated and now the correction has started to become more obvious. There's simply too many supercars and hypercars available for them to be considered special, aided by easy finance and more people with more money than ever before.

I'm just holding out hope that this correction will bring the prices of 90's Jap cars back to where they were a few years ago as I would like to start hopping between different cars I've always wanted to own. I suspect this may not happen given many cars now hold a cult status. I also suspect that with many being 25 years old opens the US market which will keep prices up.

The ones who will be hurt the most are those who have potentially stretched themselves to finance their cars but can't afford to lose too much in depreciation. Those people will quickly find themselves in negative equity with no easy way out, either take the hit or simply keep the car for the full term in the hope it'll have evened out in the end.

lemmingjames

5,670 posts

149 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
Craig_89 said:
I'm just holding out hope that this correction will bring the prices of 90's Jap cars back to where they were a few years ago as I would like to start hopping between different cars I've always wanted to own. I suspect this may not happen given many cars now hold a cult status. I also suspect that with many being 25 years old opens the US market which will keep prices up.
unless they are in factory condition, the stters of the cult cars will come back down as people will take off the rose tinted lenses

Also, has the thread been pruned or did someone delete their comment?


Joey Deacon

1,653 posts

121 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
Craig_89 said:
The ones who will be hurt the most are those who have potentially stretched themselves to finance their cars but can't afford to lose too much in depreciation. Those people will quickly find themselves in negative equity with no easy way out, either take the hit or simply keep the car for the full term in the hope it'll have evened out in the end.
I immediately though of SOL Paul Wallace when I read that. The fact that he has admitted he can't actually drive the car much because he is too worried about the resale value, and it needs a £20k respray makes me think he is a bit stuck. Obviously I don't know his financial situation, but from his videos it appears he is less able to afford to take a hit than some of the other youtubers.

He mentions on his videos that the car is actually appreciating in value, but I suspect that has not actually been the case.

Gio G

2,144 posts

154 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
Craig_89 said:
It was obvious about 18 months - 2 years ago that the car market was over inflated and now the correction has started to become more obvious. There's simply too many supercars and hypercars available for them to be considered special, aided by easy finance and more people with more money than ever before.

I'm just holding out hope that this correction will bring the prices of 90's Jap cars back to where they were a few years ago as I would like to start hopping between different cars I've always wanted to own. I suspect this may not happen given many cars now hold a cult status. I also suspect that with many being 25 years old opens the US market which will keep prices up.

The ones who will be hurt the most are those who have potentially stretched themselves to finance their cars but can't afford to lose too much in depreciation. Those people will quickly find themselves in negative equity with no easy way out, either take the hit or simply keep the car for the full term in the hope it'll have evened out in the end.
Not to side track the topic, however it seems prices of 90's and 00's nice Jap cars in the US are climbing much higher than the UK.. Being new to this market, any reason for this?

G

thelostboy

3,470 posts

170 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
AJB1971 said:
The 911R was another example. With 991 units produced it wasn’t that rare, but prices rocketed.

I’m sure that encouraged a lot of people to enter the market. They regarded buying the latest supercar as an investment. Finance was easy to come by, you only needed a small deposit, and interest rates were exceptionally low.

I’ve mentioned before about how many Performantes are currently for sale. My perception is that a lot of people bought these after seeing what happened to the price of the Speciale, TDF, R and GT3 RS, etc.
I think you're missing a couple of points here,

The 911R was lauded as a fantastic, purist's Porsche. It was of no surprise that prices initially rocketed, but since then, residuals have been affected by Porsche themselves - they diluted the R with the GT3 Touring which, in reality, is a better car.

Porsche time and time again unleash constantly evolving, better cars. The 911R will always be special, but that lustre has been diminished by the GT3 touring 'stealing' its USPs. On the flipside, a touring is worth more on the second hand market than a conventional winged GT3 despite being just being an option box on a configurator.

As for the Performante, it was launched into a positive market with cheap money. What would-be investors or enthusiastic chances clearly didn't pay attention to is that Lamborghini had no intention of - and certainly didn't promote - it being a limited numbers car. I can imagine they sold barely any regular Huracans whilst the Performante was being built, in fact.

As a Performante owner, I'm sorry to see the residuals take a hit, but at the same time I knew what I was walking into - instead we should applaud Lamborghini for not making it impossible to buy their cars after teasing the world with a Nuburgring record!

For the buyer, the Performante now represents something of a bargain. A fully fledged supercar with howling V10, for not much more than yet another GT3... it was an easy choice for me.

The economy will affect any car purchase from now on. I myself would previously consider finance because paying 7% APR could be beaten by investment performance at 9+%, property development, or wherever you stick your money. But this has all been hit hard recently, and so suddenly the 'cheap money' of finance is far riskier.

Craig_89

124 posts

121 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
Gio G said:
Not to side track the topic, however it seems prices of 90's and 00's nice Jap cars in the US are climbing much higher than the UK.. Being new to this market, any reason for this?

G
I don't get the US to be honest, they just seem to be happy to pay much higher prices than us.

As an example I've been into my MK2 MR2's for over 10 years now and they're silly money over there. Current market rate for a nice later spec turbo in the UK is circa £5-7k, over there they're going for $12-20k. The American's also pay UK turbo prices for non turbo MR2's as well. I doubt MR2's as a whole are rarer as the owners clubs seem to be much larger than the UK. The only part I do understand is that they stopped getting the MR2 in '95 so they go crazy for anything in that year.

From what I've seen the above seems to apply to various other JDM cars but again I don't understand why, especially when it applies to cars they were able to buy from new. I understand the odd few cars like Skylines which they didn't get and are now being imported legally. Supra's I really don't understand, the US got these when they were new yet I've seen a number of them sell for $170k+ which makes no sense at all!

Edited by Craig_89 on Tuesday 10th September 12:46

PaulJC84

616 posts

162 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
Probably the 25 year rule so they can import them now.