DIY mechanics take care....neighbour squished under car!
Discussion
InitialDave said:
Well, the jack in question probably cost a couple of hundred pounds, but it's quite a large one (I needed something with a good high lift). I could get a smaller one with it for under a hundred without too much bother, but I'd likely spend a little more for one of the low-profile ones if I were buying another jack.
So you could argue I'd be spending another £80 or so for it, on the basis you can get a boggo trolley jack for twenty quid, but my twenty quid one wasn't great for build quality, so I can't say I'd buy another one. I'd be looking at more like the £50 range as a baseline anyway. Let's say I'd spend another £50 for the other one. Not just because of the release mechanism, though. Some of the more expensive ones come with the flat rubberised saddles rather than the metal "cup" ones, too, which seems more useful on most modern cars, so that's a plus. Similar complaint with a lot of axle stands, actually. They're still shaped for, well, axles, and arean't as great a fit on a lot of cars that'd suit a narrow slot for the sill seam, like most oem scissor jacks have.
Anyway. I'm not really sure how much I'm willing to pay for different kinds of jack matters to anyone else. The point was simply that there are perfectly sensible reasons for people to recommend a given type over another.
Sills are the worst places to hold up the car. They're the wrong shape as you said and tend to rust. Better off using the chassis rails or crossmember. So you could argue I'd be spending another £80 or so for it, on the basis you can get a boggo trolley jack for twenty quid, but my twenty quid one wasn't great for build quality, so I can't say I'd buy another one. I'd be looking at more like the £50 range as a baseline anyway. Let's say I'd spend another £50 for the other one. Not just because of the release mechanism, though. Some of the more expensive ones come with the flat rubberised saddles rather than the metal "cup" ones, too, which seems more useful on most modern cars, so that's a plus. Similar complaint with a lot of axle stands, actually. They're still shaped for, well, axles, and arean't as great a fit on a lot of cars that'd suit a narrow slot for the sill seam, like most oem scissor jacks have.
Anyway. I'm not really sure how much I'm willing to pay for different kinds of jack matters to anyone else. The point was simply that there are perfectly sensible reasons for people to recommend a given type over another.
EazyDuz said:
Sills are the worst places to hold up the car. They're the wrong shape as you said and tend to rust. Better off using the chassis rails or crossmember.
Not always possible, in fact not often possible with many modern cars. I'm not sure how they manage to make cars that have no suitable jack stand points and no real chassis rails to speak of.My Mondeo has a cross-member at the rear, but it's hard to get to without actually being under the car already, at the front there is nothing, I tried the subframe and it flexed so much that I stopped dropping the car onto the stands and moved them to the sills. All the suspension components a formed/folded sheet steal with no areas large enough to place a jack/stand without bending something.
lyonspride said:
Not always possible, in fact not often possible with many modern cars. I'm not sure how they manage to make cars that have no suitable jack stand points and no real chassis rails to speak of.
My Mondeo has a cross-member at the rear, but it's hard to get to without actually being under the car already, at the front there is nothing, I tried the subframe and it flexed so much that I stopped dropping the car onto the stands and moved them to the sills. All the suspension components a formed/folded sheet steal with no areas large enough to place a jack/stand without bending something.
If there really is nowhere to support the car other than the pinched sill areas, buy 2 rubber pucks with the slit in them to sit on top of the axle stand, at least that way it wont bend and damage the areaMy Mondeo has a cross-member at the rear, but it's hard to get to without actually being under the car already, at the front there is nothing, I tried the subframe and it flexed so much that I stopped dropping the car onto the stands and moved them to the sills. All the suspension components a formed/folded sheet steal with no areas large enough to place a jack/stand without bending something.
EazyDuz said:
lyonspride said:
Not always possible, in fact not often possible with many modern cars. I'm not sure how they manage to make cars that have no suitable jack stand points and no real chassis rails to speak of.
My Mondeo has a cross-member at the rear, but it's hard to get to without actually being under the car already, at the front there is nothing, I tried the subframe and it flexed so much that I stopped dropping the car onto the stands and moved them to the sills. All the suspension components a formed/folded sheet steal with no areas large enough to place a jack/stand without bending something.
If there really is nowhere to support the car other than the pinched sill areas, buy 2 rubber pucks with the slit in them to sit on top of the axle stand, at least that way it wont bend and damage the areaMy Mondeo has a cross-member at the rear, but it's hard to get to without actually being under the car already, at the front there is nothing, I tried the subframe and it flexed so much that I stopped dropping the car onto the stands and moved them to the sills. All the suspension components a formed/folded sheet steal with no areas large enough to place a jack/stand without bending something.
I use a big trolley jack or two, backed up by some big blocks of wood that my Dad obtained many years ago for this purpose (also decking off-putting), or ramps. I always chock the wheels too.
Not worth dying for.
EazyDuz said:
lyonspride said:
Not always possible, in fact not often possible with many modern cars. I'm not sure how they manage to make cars that have no suitable jack stand points and no real chassis rails to speak of.
My Mondeo has a cross-member at the rear, but it's hard to get to without actually being under the car already, at the front there is nothing, I tried the subframe and it flexed so much that I stopped dropping the car onto the stands and moved them to the sills. All the suspension components a formed/folded sheet steal with no areas large enough to place a jack/stand without bending something.
If there really is nowhere to support the car other than the pinched sill areas, buy 2 rubber pucks with the slit in them to sit on top of the axle stand, at least that way it wont bend and damage the areaMy Mondeo has a cross-member at the rear, but it's hard to get to without actually being under the car already, at the front there is nothing, I tried the subframe and it flexed so much that I stopped dropping the car onto the stands and moved them to the sills. All the suspension components a formed/folded sheet steal with no areas large enough to place a jack/stand without bending something.
What I really hate is the way the paint gets pulled off the sills when the jack/stands are removed, i'm going to have the waxoyl the sills every time I jack the thing
lyonspride said:
What I really hate is the way the paint gets pulled off the sills when the jack/stands are removed, i'm going to have the waxoyl the sills every time I jack the thing
I don't worry about the last on the sills.What I do is jack up the car then lower it to spread the load between the jack(s) and my big wooden blocks.
Different approaches suit different vehicles.
My 4wd van has a separate chassis, so there is lots of solid metal to place stands under. I have never jacked it from the side - to lift the rear I jack up the diff, to lift the front I jack the crossmember.
For the MR2 I made up wooden blocks that fit the original jacking points on the sills to take the stands and spread the load. Jack the rear from the rear engine mount, jack the front from a wooden spreader under the steering crossmember, and always put the wheels under the car if I take them off. As well as being a safety net, it helps keep the garage uncluttered.
I use stands with through-hole pins for height adjustment - there's nothing much to fail there.
I don't like leaving the trolley jack under the car - it gets in the way, and I don't know how much use it is as a safety net anyway.
My 4wd van has a separate chassis, so there is lots of solid metal to place stands under. I have never jacked it from the side - to lift the rear I jack up the diff, to lift the front I jack the crossmember.
For the MR2 I made up wooden blocks that fit the original jacking points on the sills to take the stands and spread the load. Jack the rear from the rear engine mount, jack the front from a wooden spreader under the steering crossmember, and always put the wheels under the car if I take them off. As well as being a safety net, it helps keep the garage uncluttered.
I use stands with through-hole pins for height adjustment - there's nothing much to fail there.
I don't like leaving the trolley jack under the car - it gets in the way, and I don't know how much use it is as a safety net anyway.
lyonspride said:
I think one of the problems these days is a lack of proper jacking points on a lot of cars. More often than not you get the jacking points on the seam welds, which is ok if you have a 2 post ramp, but not ok if you have a floor jack and axle stands, because the jack is taking up the only jacking point........ My Mondeo is particularly bad as all the suspension components are made from pressed/shaped sheet metal instead of solid structures, so there are very few areas big enough to hold the weight.
Very unfortunate incident.The car makers don't want you to DIY. Hence making it difficult to jack up the car and place axle stands.
As the economy slows down, wonder if we will see more people attempting DIY repairs/servicing, and possibly (& regrettably) more of these incidents.
Some bricks chocking the tyres would of stopped the car rolling.
cylinder1234 said:
lyonspride said:
I think one of the problems these days is a lack of proper jacking points on a lot of cars. More often than not you get the jacking points on the seam welds, which is ok if you have a 2 post ramp, but not ok if you have a floor jack and axle stands, because the jack is taking up the only jacking point........ My Mondeo is particularly bad as all the suspension components are made from pressed/shaped sheet metal instead of solid structures, so there are very few areas big enough to hold the weight.
Very unfortunate incident.The car makers don't want you to DIY. Hence making it difficult to jack up the car and place axle stands.
As the economy slows down, wonder if we will see more people attempting DIY repairs/servicing, and possibly (& regrettably) more of these incidents.
Some bricks chocking the tyres would of stopped the car rolling.
J4CKO said:
I dont think the manufacturers are actively trying to stop you doing stuff, at least not jacking it up.
Agreed. They are not actively trying to stop you. I guess what they are doing is designing with their own service in mind, which always means a 2 post lift. They are certainly not thinking of the home mechanic when designing their product that’s for sure. How I miss my inspection pit! Currently one car is looking a bit forlorn on wooden blocks which are more stable than axle stands, though I have these as well. Trolley jack is for lifting only. especially as the current one leaks slightly as a reminder that it is an untrustworthy bit of kit.
J4CKO said:
cylinder1234 said:
lyonspride said:
I think one of the problems these days is a lack of proper jacking points on a lot of cars. More often than not you get the jacking points on the seam welds, which is ok if you have a 2 post ramp, but not ok if you have a floor jack and axle stands, because the jack is taking up the only jacking point........ My Mondeo is particularly bad as all the suspension components are made from pressed/shaped sheet metal instead of solid structures, so there are very few areas big enough to hold the weight.
Very unfortunate incident.The car makers don't want you to DIY. Hence making it difficult to jack up the car and place axle stands.
As the economy slows down, wonder if we will see more people attempting DIY repairs/servicing, and possibly (& regrettably) more of these incidents.
Some bricks chocking the tyres would of stopped the car rolling.
A typical socket set (for those who don't want to rebuy half the stuff they already own) won't have 15mm, 18mm or 20mm sockets (some do some don't), so Ford use these like they're going out of fashion, as well as odd numbered/sized hex screws, single use clips and TORX screws apparently anywhere they can't use plastic clips.
There was a time when you could dismantle most of a Ford with only a 13mm spanner.
I don't think it's the manufacturers though, I think it's the dealerships putting pressure on them.
If you know what you are doing, buying a few sockets and various bits still pales into insignificance next to sending it in for someone else to work on it.
And you have the tools for next time, I tend to try and find a guide on a given job, then check i have the parts, the tools and anything else I may need before cracking on.
Didnt have a boost test kid for my TT so I made one,borrowed a valve from an impact gun, drilled a hole in a baked bean can, fitted and sealed the valve in it, made up the disparity in diameter by winding duck tape round it, worked like a charm, didnt find any boost leaks.
And you have the tools for next time, I tend to try and find a guide on a given job, then check i have the parts, the tools and anything else I may need before cracking on.
Didnt have a boost test kid for my TT so I made one,borrowed a valve from an impact gun, drilled a hole in a baked bean can, fitted and sealed the valve in it, made up the disparity in diameter by winding duck tape round it, worked like a charm, didnt find any boost leaks.
hooblah said:
Don't know what socket sets you're buying but they generally come with the sizes you've mentioned.
Chances are that if you're a home mechanic then you've got the kit or are willing to buy the kit. If you're buying cheap s
tty pound shop tools then why even bother?
Actually they don't, it's a well documented thing, the question as to why has been asked all over the internet.Chances are that if you're a home mechanic then you've got the kit or are willing to buy the kit. If you're buying cheap s
tty pound shop tools then why even bother?Generally speaking if you want a full set, you end up buying a tonne of stuff you already have.
Whilst I do have a cheap set (from Aldi actually) for doing quick jobs, I then have a decent set of 12 point sockets, with a nice solid wrench, which I got from Screwfix. I also have a set of deep sockets by Sealey, which omit the 15mm, 18mm and 20mm, these were not cheap.
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