DIY mechanics take care....neighbour squished under car!
Discussion
What am I missing here?
Is it not patently obvious the loads acting on a towing eye are in different directions depending on what you're doing?
Just because it's designed to move the car horizontally does not necessarily mean it's sound for holding the weight of the car vertically. It may well be fine but I certainly wouldn't be getting under a car held in such a way unless it's a manufacturer approved lifting point.
Exaggerating somewhat but as a for instance, I can move all 1 tonne+ of my Clio just pushing on the plastic bumper, would you fancy jacking from that point though? Of course not as the loads going through it are acting in a totally different manner.
Is it not patently obvious the loads acting on a towing eye are in different directions depending on what you're doing?
Just because it's designed to move the car horizontally does not necessarily mean it's sound for holding the weight of the car vertically. It may well be fine but I certainly wouldn't be getting under a car held in such a way unless it's a manufacturer approved lifting point.
Exaggerating somewhat but as a for instance, I can move all 1 tonne+ of my Clio just pushing on the plastic bumper, would you fancy jacking from that point though? Of course not as the loads going through it are acting in a totally different manner.
Patrick Bateman said:
What am I missing here?
Is it not patently obvious the loads acting on a towing eye are in different directions depending on what you're doing?
Just because it's designed to move the car horizontally does not necessarily mean it's sound for holding the weight of the car vertically. It may well be fine but I certainly wouldn't be getting under a car held in such a way unless it's a manufacturer approved lifting point.
Exaggerating somewhat but as a for instance, I can move all 1 tonne+ of my Clio just pushing on the plastic bumper, would you fancy jacking from that point though? Of course not as the loads going through it are acting in a totally different manner.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OyzbGDn6xg&t=529sIs it not patently obvious the loads acting on a towing eye are in different directions depending on what you're doing?
Just because it's designed to move the car horizontally does not necessarily mean it's sound for holding the weight of the car vertically. It may well be fine but I certainly wouldn't be getting under a car held in such a way unless it's a manufacturer approved lifting point.
Exaggerating somewhat but as a for instance, I can move all 1 tonne+ of my Clio just pushing on the plastic bumper, would you fancy jacking from that point though? Of course not as the loads going through it are acting in a totally different manner.
EazyDuz said:
They all can be used as jacking points whether the manual states it or not. What use would a metal eye capable of supporting the cars weight be if it was welded to another piece of metal which cant support the cars weight?
You do understand that things are designed to deal with forces being applied in specific directions, right?Paul_M3 said:
You do understand that things are designed to deal with forces being applied in specific directions, right?
Feel free to prove me wrong with evidence of a toe eye or its supporting beam collapsing when jacked up. These areas are reinforced for a purpose, they have to be incredibly strong to not bend out of shape. You're not even lifting the entire cars weight either. Seriously if you're that paranoid buy the most expensive ramps you can afford or just rent a garage workshop.EazyDuz said:
Paul_M3 said:
You do understand that things are designed to deal with forces being applied in specific directions, right?
Feel free to prove me wrong with evidence of a toe eye or its supporting beam collapsing when jacked up. These areas are reinforced for their purpose, you're not even lifting the entire cars weight either. Seriously if you're that paranoid buy the most expensive ramps you can afford or just rent a garage workshop.EazyDuz said:
Feel free to prove me wrong with evidence of a toe eye or its supporting beam collapsing when jacked up.
No. The onus is on you to prove your statement that all towing eyes are suitable for use as jacking points.You will not be able to do this, because not all towing eyes are suitable for use as jacking points.
You are giving bad advice, and should stop.
EazyDuz said:
'Those areas can be suitable for lifting'Potentially then, not definitely in every case. He actually goes on to say it looks questionable in the car he's showing.
It may well be fine in most cases but I'm not betting by getting under a car that's lifted on a towing eye that's only designed for horizontal loads unless otherwise stated.
EazyDuz said:
InitialDave said:
Some cars have towing points that are designed to be used as jacking points. Many do not.
I'm going to be the boring b
d and say stick to the jacking points listed in the handbook/workshop manual unless you definitely know what you're doing and can make an educated decision on the suitability of things like subframe mounting points as a substitute.
They all can be used as jacking points whether the manual states it or not. What use would a metal eye capable of supporting the cars weight be if it was welded to another piece of metal which cant support the cars weight. [quote]I'm going to be the boring b
d and say stick to the jacking points listed in the handbook/workshop manual unless you definitely know what you're doing and can make an educated decision on the suitability of things like subframe mounting points as a substitute.What bliss it must be to be as simple minded as you, and not know the difference between loads in tension or compression, axial or otherwise. Whilst it's true that the areas to which towing eyes are attached are reinforced, very few would stand up to to being jacked up without deforming. Maybe one day you will realise this the hard way and prove Darwin right.
Edited by Mercky on Monday 23 April 21:40
EazyDuz said:
They all can be used as jacking points whether the manual states it or not.
The towing eye on my wifes car requires a blanking plug to be removed from the bumper, and the eye is then screwed into the deformable aluminium crash beam behind the bumper. Do you honestly believe this is a suitable jacking point?EazyDuz said:
Paul_M3 said:
You do understand that things are designed to deal with forces being applied in specific directions, right?
Feel free to prove me wrong with evidence of a toe eye or its supporting beam collapsing when jacked up. These areas are reinforced for a purpose, they have to be incredibly strong to not bend out of shape. You're not even lifting the entire cars weight either. Seriously if you're that paranoid buy the most expensive ramps you can afford or just rent a garage workshop.
Are we seriously discussing supporting a lifted vehicle with a towing eye!?
FYI, I spend a lot of my days designing industiral lifting equipment. Whether the structure of the vehicle is capable of taking the load is obviously debatable. I can tell you without question though, that eyebolts designed to BS4278, or DIN580, are not designed to take any load beyond 45° from parallel to the shank.
I've seen some very heavy lumps of metal end up on the deck where people have ingnored regulations, so I'd be very careful preaching information that could seriously endanger someone.
FYI, I spend a lot of my days designing industiral lifting equipment. Whether the structure of the vehicle is capable of taking the load is obviously debatable. I can tell you without question though, that eyebolts designed to BS4278, or DIN580, are not designed to take any load beyond 45° from parallel to the shank.
I've seen some very heavy lumps of metal end up on the deck where people have ingnored regulations, so I'd be very careful preaching information that could seriously endanger someone.
I used to have my cars up in the air most weekends when I was younger. Jacking points and strong points were easy to see in the wide open spaces under cars back then.
Now I don't fancy it so much - not much room and chassis members aren't really a thing in modern car design.
I went to jack up a Renault a couple of years ago and if I'd have used the trolley jack on the jacking point I'd have flattened off a body seam. Now you have to buy 'pucks' with slots in them to avoid doing that kind of thing.
Now I don't fancy it so much - not much room and chassis members aren't really a thing in modern car design.
I went to jack up a Renault a couple of years ago and if I'd have used the trolley jack on the jacking point I'd have flattened off a body seam. Now you have to buy 'pucks' with slots in them to avoid doing that kind of thing.
When I said 'all' I meant all run of the mill cars, like your Hyundais, Fords, Pugs, obviously some common sense takes part but that shouldnt have to be stated. If the toeing eye on your car looks like a pound shop carabiner, look elsewhere. Front/rear subframes, chassis rails etc, some have the impression that only the manual stated pinch welds on the sills are OK and the rest of the underside is made of cheese.
EazyDuz said:
When I said 'all' I meant all run of the mill cars
No, when you said 'all', you were wrong.When you try to restrict that to "run of the mill cars", you are wrong.
When you try to conflate recommending using the manufacturer-indicated pinch seam lift points as meaning no other points are suitable, you are wrong.
You can lift a car by points other than the factory jacking points, and it'll be fine, but you need to have a better understanding than you've demonstrated in order to make that decision.
I always check the owners club forum for where experienced folk jack theirs, the manual tells you some stuff but its really worth seeing if some public spirited soul has posted something, then if I need anything, I buy it before I jack it off, £15 for the appropriate puck is a good investment, once you have done it once, you know the score for next time.
I do prefer ramps if possible though, my TT wouldnt go up mine, so made some extensions from scaffolding planks, worked like a charm.
A bit of thought, common sense, take your time, have the right gear, add in some redundancy and you shouldn't go far wrong,
My dad had to lift an Austin Princess off the neighbor once, well, him and another chap who was passing, silly sod was changing rear brake shoes on a bottle jack, squatting with his head in the rear arch, it came off the jack and pressed his face into his knees, he coudlnt move, couldnt breathe and only survived due to there being people around, another minute or two he would have been dead, it left him with really back problems he still has.
Easy to get too focused on the job in hand and think it will be ok, just put yourself in the guy stuck under the Princess, an extra few minutes finding something to support it, even a few quid and a trip to the car spares place wouldn't seem so much of an imposition.
I do prefer ramps if possible though, my TT wouldnt go up mine, so made some extensions from scaffolding planks, worked like a charm.
A bit of thought, common sense, take your time, have the right gear, add in some redundancy and you shouldn't go far wrong,
My dad had to lift an Austin Princess off the neighbor once, well, him and another chap who was passing, silly sod was changing rear brake shoes on a bottle jack, squatting with his head in the rear arch, it came off the jack and pressed his face into his knees, he coudlnt move, couldnt breathe and only survived due to there being people around, another minute or two he would have been dead, it left him with really back problems he still has.
Easy to get too focused on the job in hand and think it will be ok, just put yourself in the guy stuck under the Princess, an extra few minutes finding something to support it, even a few quid and a trip to the car spares place wouldn't seem so much of an imposition.
All these post confirm that no one should be allowed to maintain a vehicle in the street/at home other than routine checks.
Most of the people described here don’t have the intelligence to know that a car is rather heavy and if not secured properly will fall on you and more than likely kill you.
These people are trying to repair brakes etc and don’t even know that the vehicle is dangerously lifted.
Nobody should be able to work on a vehicle without the proper qualifications and licence.
Unfortunately the motor trade itself is lacking in this area and the sooner something is done along the licensing lines the better.
Most of the people described here don’t have the intelligence to know that a car is rather heavy and if not secured properly will fall on you and more than likely kill you.
These people are trying to repair brakes etc and don’t even know that the vehicle is dangerously lifted.
Nobody should be able to work on a vehicle without the proper qualifications and licence.
Unfortunately the motor trade itself is lacking in this area and the sooner something is done along the licensing lines the better.
Clawdius said:
All these post confirm that no one should be allowed to maintain a vehicle in the street/at home other than routine checks.
Most of the people described here don’t have the intelligence to know that a car is rather heavy and if not secured properly will fall on you and more than likely kill you.
These people are trying to repair brakes etc and don’t even know that the vehicle is dangerously lifted.
Nobody should be able to work on a vehicle without the proper qualifications and licence.
Unfortunately the motor trade itself is lacking in this area and the sooner something is done along the licensing lines the better.
Got to be a troll....Most of the people described here don’t have the intelligence to know that a car is rather heavy and if not secured properly will fall on you and more than likely kill you.
These people are trying to repair brakes etc and don’t even know that the vehicle is dangerously lifted.
Nobody should be able to work on a vehicle without the proper qualifications and licence.
Unfortunately the motor trade itself is lacking in this area and the sooner something is done along the licensing lines the better.
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