RE: Jag kills six-cylinder saloons

RE: Jag kills six-cylinder saloons

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Discussion

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
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AAGR said:
ash73 said:
Now it looks like a Mondeo it doesn't really matter what engine's in it.
Oh dear. How sad. Never mind .... Ford sold Jaguar several years ago. XE = aluminium shell, rear drive, Mondeo = steel body shell, front-wheel-drive. No comparison is possible.

Edited by AAGR on Sunday 22 April 09:03
I would not say that modern jags look like Mondeos, but they could just as easily wear a Lexus or Audi badge. There is nothing distinctively Jaguar about them.

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
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About time that horrible engine died tbh. Right from the off it was a really pretty poor engine, being the V8 with two cyls blanked off......

unsprung

5,467 posts

123 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
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Chafford1

211 posts

230 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
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Jaguar appears to have given up on the more expensive segments of the medium (XE) and large (XF) saloon categories, implicitly acknowledging they can't compete with Mercedes, BMW and Audi. No R and SVR versions of either and now no petrol 'S' either.

Jimbo.

3,942 posts

188 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
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Chafford1 said:
Jaguar appears to have given up on the more expensive segments of the medium (XE) and large (XF) saloon categories, implicitly acknowledging they can't compete with Mercedes, BMW and Audi. No R and SVR versions of either and now no petrol 'S' either.
But if they don’t sell and development costs > final profits from that model (everything from outright sales to “halo” effect), then why would they bother? And with IC cars having only a few years (decade or so?) left, what’s the point in throwing money at them, too? When you (can/have to) reengineer them to take full advantage of what electric powertrains can offer, you end up with...the i-pace.

No ideas for a name

2,160 posts

85 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
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Colin-t4n2y said:
What a disaster! First the V6 engine replaced the wonderful 5.0 V8 in the XFS a few years ago, and now there is only a 300HP 4 pot, apart from the faintly ridiculous 600HP V8 coming later this year. I am the absolutely delighted owner of a 2010 XF-S V8, being lucky enough to buy it shortly before it was dropped and replaced by the far duller sounding 380HP V6. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, like the sound of a big V8 to get the adrenaline surging!!! And to hell with the fuel bills, you only live once and I take the view that if you can afford 50K plus for an executive sports saloon why on earth would you worry about fuel consumption?? The fuel costs actually pale into insignificance compared to the depreciation costs for a private owner, which is why I have kept the XF-S V8 for so long. So, now I will need to preserve my beloved XF-S V8 for as long as possible, and alongside my sublime early XK8 convertible.....LONG LIVE THE MIGHTY V8's!!!!
I am a bit late to the party with my reply... but the above is spot on.

I presently have an XF-S, yes the very model being dropped.
I previously had an SV8, and put off swapping it as long as I could as I was hoping a V8 version of the XF was due shortly.
No way would I now be looking at anything in the Jag line-up. XE too small, XJ - ugly behind, F-Type not enough useful space, the so called (I detest the term) SUVs - why buy Jag, you may as well buy Landrover versions as they are likely to be better as they have been at it longer.
Only went for the V6 supercharged as on paper it was close to the power to weight of the old SV8 I was replacing (aluminium model is 250kg lighter).

I had an XF 25T for a week as a loan - nice car, but no way would I be accepting this as a 4 cylinder.

Whilst on about the XF-S mine has been absolutely and utterly terrible (subject of another thread that I will return to when things become clearer) but it has either been in the dealership, or waiting to be booked in, waiting for software, waiting for decisions literally more time than I have had it on the drive.
As an example, the dealership had it for 8 days just to update the DAB radio. Software update made the car undrivable!

It has been a bit of a joke really - but I still can't think of anything that I want to swap it for.
Jag seem to be going out of their way to prevent sales.


Chafford1

211 posts

230 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
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380hp petrol XF still available in the US in RWD and AWD versions. Strangely all 4 and 6 cylinder Jags in US restricted to 121mph - F Type excluded.

unsprung

5,467 posts

123 months

Sunday 22nd April 2018
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Chafford1 said:
Strangely all 4 and 6 cylinder Jags in US restricted to 121mph - F Type excluded.
It's done as part of the pricing and segmentation strategy -- with competitive portfolios in mind.

If you want unrestricted performance, the top end V8s provide that. You thus have an incentive to trade up and to pay accordingly.

The lesser 4 and 6 cylinder models are not only speed restricted to 121mph, but their tyres and some other bits are not rated for higher speeds (thus reducing cost).


vanschpunk

143 posts

211 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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unsprung said:
Does anybody know when the inline 6 is supposed to debut?
Two local aluminium casting companies in N.Ireland (both making different components for this same JLR i-6 engine) have ramped up manpower and production since Sept last year to accomodate the demand from JLR!! So its definately in the works!

But someone i know works for one of them companies and has said the component they are making for it, is proving to be problematic. So at the minute its still unknown when JLR will start using it in production vehicles.

unsprung

5,467 posts

123 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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vanschpunk said:
unsprung said:
Does anybody know when the inline 6 is supposed to debut?
Two local aluminium casting companies in N.Ireland (both making different components for this same JLR i-6 engine) have ramped up manpower and production since Sept last year to accomodate the demand from JLR!! So its definately in the works!

But someone i know works for one of them companies and has said the component they are making for it, is proving to be problematic. So at the minute its still unknown when JLR will start using it in production vehicles.
Priceless. Thanks for taking the time to share this. (especially in the wee hours from Sunday to Monday!)

I imagine that the obstacles are not especially fun. But they do make this news all the more thrilling. With the right application of minds and muscle, this straight six, and all of its modern / regulated requirements, will be sorted.

Imagine the exhaust note... alongside the many me-too V6s out there.





culpz

4,881 posts

111 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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big_rob_sydney said:
300bhp from a 4 cylinder...
Progress, I think not. WOFTAM.
I'd say that 300 bhp from a modern 4-cylinder IS progress. Think MK7 Golf R. That's impressive, IMO.

big_rob_sydney said:
Is this a joke? These wont see which way a Subaru or Mitsubishi from the 90's went.
Comparing a mid-size Jaguar saloon to an Impreza/Evo of some sorts doesn't really make much sense.




DonkeyApple

54,934 posts

168 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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unsprung said:
Imagine the exhaust note... alongside the many me-too V6s out there.
The fact that another nasty V6 bodge of a poor man’s V8 is being dropped for an I6 is certainly good news.

Ali_T

3,379 posts

256 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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"380ps sales accounted for less than two per cent of XE"

Because they increased the price from £42k to nearly £50k when they added 40bhp just over a year ago. People weren't stupid and realised they could have a discounted M3, C63 or Giulia QF for the same price.

Ali_T

3,379 posts

256 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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DonkeyApple said:
The fact that another nasty V6 bodge of a poor man’s V8 is being dropped for an I6 is certainly good news.
Not according to these guys...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3YFTFLmcfk

DonkeyApple

54,934 posts

168 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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Ali_T said:
DonkeyApple said:
The fact that another nasty V6 bodge of a poor man’s V8 is being dropped for an I6 is certainly good news.
Not according to these guys...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3YFTFLmcfk
What does that show though? The same car in a year or two’s time will be even better with the new I6 in it. The V6 was always about compromise, especially with Jaguar. What will be a little odd and take getting used to is if they put the engine in Range Rovers as that will be quite a big cultural shift.

Smokey32

359 posts

92 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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Max_Torque said:
About time that horrible engine died tbh. Right from the off it was a really pretty poor engine, being the V8 with two cyls blanked off......
Says the guy with the Electric city car and oil burner. lol

greenarrow

3,552 posts

116 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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Lots of wailing about a variant that hardly anyone bought and as for Jag sales, they seem to be ok.

To be fair to Jag, they've been selling very few 6 cylinder petrol saloons for some years now. Cant remember ever seeing a 3 litre petrol XF, tbh. Why would you bother when the diesel was as fast in the real world and used up less fuel.

BVB

1,097 posts

152 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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Shame. Jag should always have a six pot available.

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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greenarrow said:
Lots of wailing about a variant that hardly anyone bought and as for Jag sales, they seem to be ok.

To be fair to Jag, they've been selling very few 6 cylinder petrol saloons for some years now. Cant remember ever seeing a 3 litre petrol XF, tbh. Why would you bother when the diesel was as fast in the real world and used up less fuel.
Not wailing about its demise, it didn't sell because it was st compared to the competition. It's the fact that they just given up, rather than even tried of offer a warm saloon that I find bemusing

unsprung

5,467 posts

123 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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greenarrow said:
Lots of wailing about a variant that hardly anyone bought and as for Jag sales, they seem to be ok.

To be fair to Jag, they've been selling very few 6 cylinder petrol saloons for some years now. Cant remember ever seeing a 3 litre petrol XF, tbh. Why would you bother when the diesel was as fast in the real world and used up less fuel.
If we take a portfolio perspective, the supercharged V6 was, and remains, about being competitive on price and horsepower in a couple of export markets (like that pizza-munching, high-fiving one on the other side of the Atlantic).

When battling the German and Japanese premium marques over there, Jaguar will prioritise things like prestige, luxury, and power. Fuel economy won't be necessarily among the most ranked attributes by buyers. And nearly all buyers / lessees are the end user (and not an employer-based scheme).

So it's one of those horses-for-courses scenarios, I reckon.