Manual Vs Automatic??

Author
Discussion

Gad-Westy

14,521 posts

212 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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culpz said:
AngryChimp241 said:
Whew, 8 pages of convo to read through! thanks for all the input. I've taken all your advice and gone out and driven a Scirocco 2.0 TDI DSG automatic and... I love it! I do live in a built up area close to a city where I am faced with traffic each morning and both cars were fluid, smooth and fun to drive. I do like manuals and I've always taken pride that I was taught to change gears properly without grabbing the gear stick and jerking it around etc, just gently nudging it into place and making smooth, non grindy gear changes for a long time. I obviously don't want to lose that timing, however technology has come along so far that there's no need to do that anymore. It makes gear changes more efficiently than I ever could and improves fuel efficiency too. Like some people have said they prefer a manual and would never touch an auto and I can see why they would say that and appreciate why. However for my requirements I've taken the decision to go to an Automatic. The Scirocco DSG gear boxes are meant to be top notch so hopefully i'll have a pleasant experience with it. Thanks all again for the imput
Good choice wink

I was initially a bit worried about having DSG when driving at low speeds. I was told by many that it can be quite jerky, but i haven't experienced that at all. It's actually surprisingly smooth for a dual-clutch.

If/when it's time to drive a manual again, for whatever reason, whether it be temporarily or permanently, you should be able to revert back almost instantly without much fuss. Like someone said, it's like riding a bike.
I think early implementation of DSG was a bit more agricultural in auto mode. Recent versions seem good though, seem to behave exactly like a TC auto in auto mode. Seems a very blurred line these days between automated manual, DCT's and torque converter autos. They all seem to do more or less the same thing in much the same way.

I like autos for typical driving, commuting, motorway etc. But still love a manual in the right car. But I'm more picky these days, can't be bothered with crap manual boxes, of which many are. A decent box with well spaced ratios, pedals well spaced (and no throttle cut off with brake applied) and a good positive shift action in a car that encourages being driven is still a joy on the right road.


Edited by Gad-Westy on Monday 23 April 14:19

AngryChimp241

Original Poster:

54 posts

71 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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Perseverant said:
Perhaps a slightly amusing tale..... The first automatic I drove was a double decker full of people! I'd not long passed my PSV in the olden days on a non synchro Bristol, and apart from a brief drive in a semi automatic, that was training. All went well though as I rapidly worked out what PRND etc. meant. I've always had manuals and thought of changing gear as a skill, but I've driven all sorts and modern automatics are very good indeed.
Wow thrown in the deep end or what lol. Reminds me when I first passed my driving test; i did it in the army and it was about 1 month before I was deployed to Iraq on operation Telic 6 to do a drivers role! Basically i wasn't the most confident driver anyway and I didn't look forward to driving at all. A month later after having no further driving experience I was in the middle of a desert, driving a Land rover Snatch in and around known minefields doing covert night time missions with no lights guided only by using a night vision monocle!! if you are unfamiliar with optics, a monocle gives you no perception of depth! By the time I was back in the UK I bought a car and loved how easy it was!

Red 5

1,021 posts

179 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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Auto boxes are a great 2nd car / hire car experience for me. Also I find a heavier car damps the clunkines of their less well executed moves.
They are great for the driving I care less about. (And for people who care less generally, in my experience)

As much as I admire some speedy upshifts and pops etc...
PDK downshifts are horrible and unsettle the car. Humans can do a way better job if they care to learn.
The blip is timed wronly and starts before the clutch is full engaged.
Do the GT cars do this too?

In general, all the subtle polish and precision is removed from driving. The dozens of techniques to learn with auto boxes, actually make them way more tiresome and boring than “Just pressing a clutch”
Auto mode / stick / paddle / combinations of all three, in eco, sport, sport+ blah blah....

I find PDK and ZF8 boxes good for learner driver standards at best.
Kickdown (although avoided at all costs) is one of the worst, most unpleasant sensations in all driving. Just nasty frown
Not quite as bad as crashing the car, but pretty close wink

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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Red 5 said:
I find PDK and ZF8 boxes good for learner driver standards at best.
Kickdown (although avoided at all costs) is one of the worst, most unpleasant sensations in all driving. Just nasty frown
Not quite as bad as crashing the car, but pretty close wink
Go and drive a decent one..... wink

Trundling along at 30, stuck behind a slow driver, then nailing the throttle as you spot a short overtaking opportunity and getting an immediate shove as you fire down the road up to 60/70mph in a couple or 3 seconds is not unpleasant wink


AngryChimp241

Original Poster:

54 posts

71 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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I tried to see how the auto box worked. I was in regular drive and was doing around 50 mph in either gear 5 or 6. I wanted to test its overtaking capability's (without actually overtaking just seeing what the engine would do) and as soon as I hit pressed accelerator hard the car dropped into 3rd and started to pull away. Apparently in the S mode which is sports it holds the revs for longer giving you more time in lower gear ratios.

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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AngryChimp241 said:
I tried to see how the auto box worked. I was in regular drive and was doing around 50 mph in either gear 5 or 6. I wanted to test its overtaking capability's (without actually overtaking just seeing what the engine would do) and as soon as I hit pressed accelerator hard the car dropped into 3rd and started to pull away. Apparently in the S mode which is sports it holds the revs for longer giving you more time in lower gear ratios.
Isn't that just what you would have done in a manual?

captain_cynic

11,873 posts

94 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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Ares said:
Isn't that just what you would have done in a manual?
Actually it's the other way around, in a manual first you drop a cog, then hit the go pedal.

In the last auto I drove I tried dropping a few cogs with the paddles before an overtake. Unfortunately it suffered from dreadful turbo lag, which is just a result of a small engine with a big turbo. The 0-60 time was good, but 30-60 was atrocious.

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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captain_cynic said:
Ares said:
Isn't that just what you would have done in a manual?
Actually it's the other way around, in a manual first you drop a cog, then hit the go pedal.

In the last auto I drove I tried dropping a few cogs with the paddles before an overtake. Unfortunately it suffered from dreadful turbo lag, which is just a result of a small engine with a big turbo. The 0-60 time was good, but 30-60 was atrocious.
Yes, but net effect is the same. Not sure why it would be a problem? You need to overtake, you drop down 2 gears to max the acceleration (which you could do in the auto)

....and if so, that's the fault of a st car, not the gearbox. (although if you'd replicated the manual box by manually selecting the gear ahead of the manoeuvre, can't understand why there would THEN be turbo lag as the revs would mean the turbo was already spinning...??)

In mine, manually selecting the gear, or letting the car do itself is just as explosive. Launching from 30-70 happens comically fast.

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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captain_cynic said:
Ares said:
Isn't that just what you would have done in a manual?
Actually it's the other way around, in a manual first you drop a cog, then hit the go pedal.

In the last auto I drove I tried dropping a few cogs with the paddles before an overtake. Unfortunately it suffered from dreadful turbo lag, which is just a result of a small engine with a big turbo. The 0-60 time was good, but 30-60 was atrocious.
What car was that?

gamefreaks

1,955 posts

186 months

Tuesday 24th April 2018
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I’ve had a few of both over the years.

If I was buying a new car, I’d go for an auto with paddle shift. Modern autos are smooth and responsive.

On a used car though, I’m always very cautious about autos. The car manufacturers seem to ignore the gearbox manufacturers oil change recommendations so there is a reliability question mark once a car has a few miles. Eg: ZF6. ZF recommends fluid changes at 60k. Jaguar claim sealed for life. When I had my XK8 at 80k miles, although it shifted perfectly, the fluid that came out was a lot darker than the fluid that went in.

e30m3Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Tuesday 24th April 2018
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Can you bump start modern autos? That was always a consideration for me years ago.

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Tuesday 24th April 2018
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e30m3Mark said:
Can you bump start modern autos? That was always a consideration for me years ago.
Ive only ever needed to bump start 1 car(and that wasnt mine) so that wouldnt influence my decision.

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Tuesday 24th April 2018
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e30m3Mark said:
Can you bump start modern autos? That was always a consideration for me years ago.
Yes, but we've now moved past the 1980s.... wink

e30m3Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Tuesday 24th April 2018
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Ares said:
e30m3Mark said:
Can you bump start modern autos? That was always a consideration for me years ago.
Yes, but we've now moved past the 1980s.... wink
You may have. Me? Not so much. laugh

Mind you, I've now got a 325ti from this millennium! It even has a place where you can put a cup and it'll keep it upright, as opposed to wedging it into the corner of the passenger seat with a jumper!

Lowtimer

4,286 posts

167 months

Tuesday 24th April 2018
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No, you can't

jjwilde

1,904 posts

95 months

Tuesday 24th April 2018
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Lowtimer said:
No, you can't
You can but I recall they need to be pushed to a higher speed or down a hill.

In the USA I've seen them do it by pushing the car with another car.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 24th April 2018
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e30m3Mark said:
Can you bump start modern autos? That was always a consideration for me years ago.
A man of my own heart. Same for me and also wasn't it dodgy towing an automatic something to do with the torque converter?

Lowtimer

4,286 posts

167 months

Tuesday 24th April 2018
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Well, you've made me look into it further with that comment, and I found a whole old PH thread -
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
- in which there seems to be a consensus that on stuff with olde worlde purely hydraulic slushboxes from the dawn of time, it can sometimes work, but not with anything remotely modern, and certainly not twin-clutch stuff.

mholt1995

567 posts

80 months

Tuesday 24th April 2018
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To add my own opinion, I've been driving manuals since I started to learn to drive (so about 6 years now) and drove an automatic for the first time today (Q5 2.0TFSI whilst my A4 is in for warranty work).

Safe to say my next car will be an automatic! It's ever so relaxed to waft about town in D and the engine (250bhp) makes it an engaging enough drive without having to add a manual gearshift into the mix. I also wasn't sure how maneuvers were going to work as I'm partial to riding the clutch whilst parking but the little push it gives you when you take your foot off the brake eased my mind completely.

Lovely stuff!

gazza285

9,780 posts

207 months

Tuesday 24th April 2018
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I'm currently driving a Fiesta Auto while my van is knackered, and I'll not be recommending it to anybody I like. The slightest hint of acceleration sees it downshifting two ratios, then almost immediately changing back up one, which makes for a tedious journey on a busy motorway to and from work, flappy paddles which are almost immediately over-ruled by the computer, and zero engine braking, which is also tedious when you live in the Pennines.

Autos are nice in a big car, but not in a Fizzog.