Manual Vs Automatic??
Discussion
captain_cynic said:
I have a manual M240i... After test driving the auto I nearly walked into the office and cancelled my order. I couldn't imagine how a car that had almost all the right ingredients could be so dull and lifeless. The only reason I didn't is because BMW had sent the 3 pedal version to all the journalists and all of them raved about how good it was.
And they were right. A manual box transformed the car. The auto box is designed to be completely inoffensive, to remove the driver from the experience of driving I.E. designed for the American audience and in so doing, managed to make a great car boring.
I'd love either a M240i or a M4 and I'd go for the Manual in those as well. The thing I don't really like about two pedal cars is that it turns them into easy and relaxing cars to drive. That's not really what you want from a performance car for me. And they were right. A manual box transformed the car. The auto box is designed to be completely inoffensive, to remove the driver from the experience of driving I.E. designed for the American audience and in so doing, managed to make a great car boring.
Having said that I do understand why the majority go for two pedal performance cars, because they're faster and better on fuel and have lower emissions.
cerb4.5lee said:
I'd love either a M240i or a M4 and I'd go for the Manual in those as well. The thing I don't really like about two pedal cars is that it turns them into easy and relaxing cars to drive. That's not really what you want from a performance car for me.
Having said that I do understand why the majority go for two pedal performance cars, because they're faster and better on fuel and have lower emissions.
Yep, the M and M-lite cars are for drivers, so anything that removed the driver from the experience is detrimental to those cars. I feel sorry for the Yanks, they don't get the 2 series manual at all. Performance cars should be manual but what had surprised me is just how much feeling was removed by the gearbox (to be fair, the nearest comparison to it I've driven before was an R35 GTR).Having said that I do understand why the majority go for two pedal performance cars, because they're faster and better on fuel and have lower emissions.
OTOH, if I were to buy a luxo-barge, automatic would be the order of the day because I'm not getting one of those for spirited driving.
Depends on the car. Caterham 7 with an auto box, nope!!! Big torquey Mercedes with a manual, nope.
Certain cars MUST be manual and others MUST be auto.
Small and sporty, manual.
Large with torquey lazy power, auto.
My old Merc with a big motor and column shift Auto is the only way to go for that car. My seriously modified VW bus that'll rev to 10K, manual.
Those are the rules
Certain cars MUST be manual and others MUST be auto.
Small and sporty, manual.
Large with torquey lazy power, auto.
My old Merc with a big motor and column shift Auto is the only way to go for that car. My seriously modified VW bus that'll rev to 10K, manual.
Those are the rules
cerb4.5lee said:
Filibuster said:
Do tell your friend to go for the manual GTS.
I will keep trying to convince him. 
For reference, i'd go PDK, so i suppose that makes it 1-1
Horses for courses.
I had always had Manual cars up until 9 years ago when I purchased a 2006 Mustang GT which was (shock) and automatic. it wasn't a lightweight sports car; in reality it’s a big comfy GT car that if the fuel tank was large enough (60L with a 4.6L V8 - come on Ford that’s not even funny) would allow you to cover vast distances, easily, in comfort and with the rugged simplicity and reliability that it offered. The Automatic suited it perfectly, it made it into a real Jekyll and Hyde car, I could burble around town, the box shuffling up and down into the most appropriate gear, or when I wanted to have fun bury my foot into the carpet it would kick down into the lowest possible gear and you'd be off like a scalded cat.
The auto box also came into its own when I started drag racing, which at the slower end of the scale (sub 6 seconds) is bracket or index racing (a few classes excepted). In bracket and index racing consistency rather than speed is king which meant that the automatic gearbox meant I did not have to worry about the consistency of gear shifts and launches on differing runs, it would be the same each and every time. I also didn’t have to worry about the potential of cooking a clutch from a botched launch; the 5R55S took the pasting and kept coming back for more each run just as consistent as the last (if only the meat in the seat was that good).
Fast forward to today and the Mustang has been with its new owner for around a month and I am trundling about in a late 2007 MINI Cooper (120hp 1.6L) with a manual gearbox. It by comparison runs on fresh air compared to the Mustang. I admit that I miss the automatic a little especially on those odd occasions where I am sat in stop start traffic though a slush box like the Mustang would simply not suit the MINI at all (maybe a diesel one it would where you have more low down torque) and would just feel wrong, the mini doesn't need the Jekyll and Hyde bit either, it is what it is.
I had always had Manual cars up until 9 years ago when I purchased a 2006 Mustang GT which was (shock) and automatic. it wasn't a lightweight sports car; in reality it’s a big comfy GT car that if the fuel tank was large enough (60L with a 4.6L V8 - come on Ford that’s not even funny) would allow you to cover vast distances, easily, in comfort and with the rugged simplicity and reliability that it offered. The Automatic suited it perfectly, it made it into a real Jekyll and Hyde car, I could burble around town, the box shuffling up and down into the most appropriate gear, or when I wanted to have fun bury my foot into the carpet it would kick down into the lowest possible gear and you'd be off like a scalded cat.
The auto box also came into its own when I started drag racing, which at the slower end of the scale (sub 6 seconds) is bracket or index racing (a few classes excepted). In bracket and index racing consistency rather than speed is king which meant that the automatic gearbox meant I did not have to worry about the consistency of gear shifts and launches on differing runs, it would be the same each and every time. I also didn’t have to worry about the potential of cooking a clutch from a botched launch; the 5R55S took the pasting and kept coming back for more each run just as consistent as the last (if only the meat in the seat was that good).
Fast forward to today and the Mustang has been with its new owner for around a month and I am trundling about in a late 2007 MINI Cooper (120hp 1.6L) with a manual gearbox. It by comparison runs on fresh air compared to the Mustang. I admit that I miss the automatic a little especially on those odd occasions where I am sat in stop start traffic though a slush box like the Mustang would simply not suit the MINI at all (maybe a diesel one it would where you have more low down torque) and would just feel wrong, the mini doesn't need the Jekyll and Hyde bit either, it is what it is.
For any one who has an modern automatic, how often do people actually use the manual mode via the gear stick and/or paddles?
I genuinely leave it in D for the most part and let it do it's thing. I've used the paddles a couple of times but i don't really yearn for the manual mode much. I don't even use the S mode that much. Maybe i need to get it onto some country roads and then it might make more sense.
Got another week away coming up in Oban, Scotland at end of next month. There are some lovely roads round there so i'll report back
I genuinely leave it in D for the most part and let it do it's thing. I've used the paddles a couple of times but i don't really yearn for the manual mode much. I don't even use the S mode that much. Maybe i need to get it onto some country roads and then it might make more sense.
Got another week away coming up in Oban, Scotland at end of next month. There are some lovely roads round there so i'll report back
culpz said:
For any one who has an modern automatic, how often do people actually use the manual mode via the gear stick and/or paddles?
I genuinely leave it in D for the most part and let it do it's thing. I've used the paddles a couple of times but i don't really yearn for the manual mode much. I don't even use the S mode that much. Maybe i need to get it onto some country roads and then it might make more sense.
Got another week away coming up in Oban, Scotland at end of next month. There are some lovely roads round there so i'll report back
I'm a bout 50/50 in my DSG Leon. Really just depends on traffic and what mood I'm in. I genuinely leave it in D for the most part and let it do it's thing. I've used the paddles a couple of times but i don't really yearn for the manual mode much. I don't even use the S mode that much. Maybe i need to get it onto some country roads and then it might make more sense.
Got another week away coming up in Oban, Scotland at end of next month. There are some lovely roads round there so i'll report back
We're a peculiar breed here on PH so it's not surprising that many like 3 pedals. What does seem strange though is how so many people who really don't care about driving at all (and often aren't very good at it either) still prefer a manual box. My mum falls into this category. Terrible gear changer but will never buy autos. I don't understand it.
sr.guiri said:
Depends on the car.
Large with torquey lazy power, auto.
My old Merc with a big motor and column shift Auto is the only way to go for that car.
Love the column shift and slush pump on my 5.5 211. I very occasionally use the paddles when I feel like playing some V8 tunes but 99% of the time I just let the box do its thing. And it's perfectly matched to the engine and the overall experience.Large with torquey lazy power, auto.
My old Merc with a big motor and column shift Auto is the only way to go for that car.
Gad-Westy said:
culpz said:
For any one who has an modern automatic, how often do people actually use the manual mode via the gear stick and/or paddles?
I genuinely leave it in D for the most part and let it do it's thing. I've used the paddles a couple of times but i don't really yearn for the manual mode much. I don't even use the S mode that much. Maybe i need to get it onto some country roads and then it might make more sense.
Got another week away coming up in Oban, Scotland at end of next month. There are some lovely roads round there so i'll report back
I'm a bout 50/50 in my DSG Leon. Really just depends on traffic and what mood I'm in. I genuinely leave it in D for the most part and let it do it's thing. I've used the paddles a couple of times but i don't really yearn for the manual mode much. I don't even use the S mode that much. Maybe i need to get it onto some country roads and then it might make more sense.
Got another week away coming up in Oban, Scotland at end of next month. There are some lovely roads round there so i'll report back
We're a peculiar breed here on PH so it's not surprising that many like 3 pedals. What does seem strange though is how so many people who really don't care about driving at all (and often aren't very good at it either) still prefer a manual box. My mum falls into this category. Terrible gear changer but will never buy autos. I don't understand it.
In fact, i believe that the DSG in my current car has kept driving a pleasure for me, but that's more for my commute, which is majority city/town, stop/start and general rush hour traffic driving.
We've always predominantly bought manuals here in the UK, which is odd really, but i did see a poster on here say that this year could be the first time that we're buying majority automatics now. I think people are realising how far they've come now and their ease of use.
How accurate that statement is and the exact source of that information is unknown, though.
culpz said:
For any one who has an modern automatic, how often do people actually use the manual mode via the gear stick and/or paddles?
I genuinely leave it in D for the most part and let it do it's thing. I've used the paddles a couple of times but i don't really yearn for the manual mode much. I don't even use the S mode that much. Maybe i need to get it onto some country roads and then it might make more sense.
Got another week away coming up in Oban, Scotland at end of next month. There are some lovely roads round there so i'll report back
If there is a quick overtake needed, I will knock the lever left into sport, in anticipation. This drops are gear and holds the revs for longer. If I am on switchback hills, I will sometimes use the manual mode it wish, to enjoy the alternating climbing and descending, although auto is perfectly OK for this. However, 80% of the time I am in simple Drive and Comfort mode. I genuinely leave it in D for the most part and let it do it's thing. I've used the paddles a couple of times but i don't really yearn for the manual mode much. I don't even use the S mode that much. Maybe i need to get it onto some country roads and then it might make more sense.
Got another week away coming up in Oban, Scotland at end of next month. There are some lovely roads round there so i'll report back
culpz said:
cerb4.5lee said:
Filibuster said:
Do tell your friend to go for the manual GTS.
I will keep trying to convince him. For reference, i'd go PDK, so i suppose that makes it 1-1
culpz said:
For any one who has an modern automatic, how often do people actually use the manual mode via the gear stick and/or paddles?
I've never really used the paddles on any of my Auto's, purely because I find they do a great job without me interfering. Some swear by them though. cerb4.5lee said:
Having said that I do understand why the majority go for two pedal performance cars, because they're faster and better on fuel and have lower emissions.
Only reason the specification sheet says the auto is better on emissions and fuel is because the EU test cycle forces selection of a particular gear with a manual. In the real world the manual is better on emissions and fuel I suspect unless a 7-8 speed auto can really keep the engine in the best revs all the time. Same with noise measurement. The auto can be faster it is true in a straight line.The test cycle needs re-written..Pica-Pica said:
culpz said:
For any one who has an modern automatic, how often do people actually use the manual mode via the gear stick and/or paddles?
I genuinely leave it in D for the most part and let it do it's thing. I've used the paddles a couple of times but i don't really yearn for the manual mode much. I don't even use the S mode that much. Maybe i need to get it onto some country roads and then it might make more sense.
Got another week away coming up in Oban, Scotland at end of next month. There are some lovely roads round there so i'll report back
If there is a quick overtake needed, I will knock the lever left into sport, in anticipation. This drops are gear and holds the revs for longer. If I am on switchback hills, I will sometimes use the manual mode it wish, to enjoy the alternating climbing and descending, although auto is perfectly OK for this. However, 80% of the time I am in simple Drive and Comfort mode. I genuinely leave it in D for the most part and let it do it's thing. I've used the paddles a couple of times but i don't really yearn for the manual mode much. I don't even use the S mode that much. Maybe i need to get it onto some country roads and then it might make more sense.
Got another week away coming up in Oban, Scotland at end of next month. There are some lovely roads round there so i'll report back
Toltec said:
culpz said:
For any one who has an modern automatic, how often do people actually use the manual mode via the gear stick and/or paddles?
In my 530i the paddles/buttons only get used for overtaking, my Smart Roadster was only in auto when using cruise control on a motorway.cerb4.5lee said:
culpz said:
For any one who has an modern automatic, how often do people actually use the manual mode via the gear stick and/or paddles?
I've never really used the paddles on any of my Auto's, purely because I find they do a great job without me interfering. Some swear by them though. Maybe i was expecting too much from it but it's just a bit anti-climactic. I'm probably gonna get the resonator deleted on it for a bit more noise, so i'll see if i find myself using the paddles more afterwards.
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