Manual Vs Automatic??

Author
Discussion

Fort Jefferson

8,237 posts

221 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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Soon to become an anti theft device.

Drew106

1,391 posts

144 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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edward1 said:
My experience with CVT was a hire car last year and it was the most awful combination ever, a CVT box mated to a under powered smallish petrol, never again.
I had a RAV4 rental recently with a CVT box. It was the slushyist thing ever! But I actually quite liked it around town. The slushyness made it very smooth. Wouldn't notice it change gear at all.

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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It does make me smile when folk say that 1 is better than the other and state it like its a fact. Which you prefer is opinion and nothing more.

I had an automatic Golf GTI I enjoyed it for the 1st month, then got really bored. I prefer a manual car, because they better suit what I enjoy.

OP get a few long tests of various gearboxes then choose the 1 that you prefer, because there is no 1 box that suits everyone.

kambites

67,462 posts

220 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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DoubleD said:
It does make me smile when folk say that 1 is better than the other and state it like its a fact. Which you prefer is opinion and nothing more.
yes

ZX10R NIN

27,494 posts

124 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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OP this one is simple it comes down to what you prefer depending on what car it's in, for example I wouldn't want a Manual S Class at the same time I'd want a Manual Evora.

waremark

3,241 posts

212 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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DoubleD said:
It does make me smile when folk say that 1 is better than the other and state it like its a fact. Which you prefer is opinion and nothing more.

I had an automatic Golf GTI I enjoyed it for the 1st month, then got really bored. I prefer a manual car, because they better suit what I enjoy.

OP get a few long tests of various gearboxes then choose the 1 that you prefer, because there is no 1 box that suits everyone.
I think you can say that a modern auto is simply better - faster, smoother than the best driver, more economical, offering a large measure of manual control if required. However, that is quite different from saying that everyone prefers driving even the best autos. I get great satisfaction from good gear changing, and in a household with a mix of manuals and autos I choose to use a manual most of the time - even for driving in town. Using paddles in an auto does not give any of that satisfaction.

Autos and dual clutch boxes have become more and more similar to use, to the point where most drivers would not know which of the two they were using. In my experience autos have more natural creep for manoeuvering, and dual clutches sometimes change even faster, but I wouldn't be bothered which a car came with. For sports car enthusiasts, it is interesting that Aston are using an AMG engine in the new Vantage; the Merc equivalent, the AMG GT, uses a dual clutch, but Aston have gone for an 8 speed auto. I don't think any of the reviews of either car have criticized the transmission - except in so far as we are having to wait for a manual version of the Aston.

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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waremark said:
DoubleD said:
It does make me smile when folk say that 1 is better than the other and state it like its a fact. Which you prefer is opinion and nothing more.

I had an automatic Golf GTI I enjoyed it for the 1st month, then got really bored. I prefer a manual car, because they better suit what I enjoy.

OP get a few long tests of various gearboxes then choose the 1 that you prefer, because there is no 1 box that suits everyone.
I think you can say that a modern auto is simply better - faster, smoother than the best driver, more economical, offering a large measure of manual control if required. However, that is quite different from saying that everyone prefers driving even the best autos. I get great satisfaction from good gear changing, and in a household with a mix of manuals and autos I choose to use a manual most of the time - even for driving in town. Using paddles in an auto does not give any of that satisfaction.

Autos and dual clutch boxes have become more and more similar to use, to the point where most drivers would not know which of the two they were using. In my experience autos have more natural creep for manoeuvering, and dual clutches sometimes change even faster, but I wouldn't be bothered which a car came with. For sports car enthusiasts, it is interesting that Aston are using an AMG engine in the new Vantage; the Merc equivalent, the AMG GT, uses a dual clutch, but Aston have gone for an 8 speed auto. I don't think any of the reviews of either car have criticized the transmission - except in so far as we are having to wait for a manual version of the Aston.
Saying that you think a modern auto is better is your opinion. Facts are things like faster gear changes, because that can be measured.

Kenny Powers

2,618 posts

126 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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I like both.

The right car with the right gearbox on the right road on the right day at the right time...a manual offers me the most engaging drive. For everything else I prefer auto smile

smarty156

372 posts

85 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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I have the superb ZF8HP gearbox in my car. It also has paddles so switching to manual is very simple and then it will change whenever you tell it. Complete control.
I also sometimes use the gear lever to manually change (forward for changing down and back for changing up). Depends how I feel and what the road is like.
The gearbox is so good that I leave it in auto 80% of the time. It seems almost telepathic. You don't even have to switch modes for it to change to a more sporty gearchange. Just suddenly flooring it in Normal mode will have the gearbox saying "Ooh. You want to have some fun now?" and then it will hold onto gears longer. Back off and it goes back to a more relaxed change. That may just be the implementation and calibration for the Alfa Quadrifoglio though.
It is utterly brilliant.

An old fashioned auto slush box though? No thanks. Horrible things.

vikingaero

10,256 posts

168 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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I have manuals and autos and it depends on:

Where you live - a manual isn't going to be much fun in urban areas - I live in Kent which is now an extension of London.
What you use the car for - you won't be heeling and toeing on the South Circular or Aston Expressway. If it's a weekend car then consider manual.
The type of auto - 4/5/6/7/8/9 speeds are the norm. Some CVTs are OK. DSGs have massively improved. Automated manuals still a bit meh.

I just think that an auto can make bad journeys more pleasurable.

s70rmp

649 posts

128 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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swerni said:
Diesel C class and fun aren’t normally words you find In the same sentence.
Maybe not but the a nice 3 ltr V6 engine with nice power and torque matched with a nice auto box which I can control with the paddles has made for some fun drives

ghost83

5,476 posts

189 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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Depends on the car and it’s use! I currently have a golf gti pp and if you’re relaxing doing motorway driving the dsg combined with adaptive cruise is brilliant!

It’s also brilliant once on the move as well on back roads or fast A roads

However it’s not the greatest in urban environments if you’re driving enthusiastically, tonight for instance I pull up to a junction spot a gap and pull out only there’s nothing from the car and the empty spot has a car in it now approaching at 40mph, then once it sorts itself out it takes off!

Other than that it makes the commute an absolute breeze

MrGTI6

3,157 posts

129 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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I personally prefer manual cars and would pick one over an auto where possible, but there's no denying that some cars are just better suited to an auto.

Some of the new autos are amazing (the eight-speed ZF in particular), but I can never get on fully with dual-clutch autos (DSG, Powershift, etc.). OK when on the move but never quite right at low speeds in my opinion.

bloomen

6,856 posts

158 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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I will fill a barn with manuals for the decades to come before the car industry forces me into an auto.

I've driven plenty of them in the US, and some proper fancy ones. As soon as I'm back in my manual piece of crap at Heathrow it's like the colour being turned back on. I want control and an auto relinquishes far too much of it and I want to retain the clutch pedal too.

Most of my driving is down goat tracks and steep hills. An auto would be unbearable in those circumstances and much more work to control too.

I'm still pondering an Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio. Though its auto is good I'd have to import an LHD manual. I hate any auto that much the inconvenience of LHD would be a price well worth paying.

J4CKO

41,287 posts

199 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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A good manual is a joy, I think as a driver you lose something with autos, that chunk of interaction, it isnt changing the ratio itself, its the interplay between engine, clutch, revs and gear, the subtle nuances you lose with any automatic gearchange, I am not even a purist in any way but it makes me torn, got a change in commute coming up and head says auto, heart says manual.

Choosing a car based on the auto being 2 tenths faster to sixty is a bit of a cop out, some are lower on tax though which is a bit of an annoyance.

I wouldn't worry on a small commuter car or barge, but anything else, anything with any edge to it, I would want manual, DSG's are great but no skill whatsover, a manual you need to put more effort in, but the rewards are higher, but only if you do it properly, or like me, at least try to,

What we need is an auto box for through the week and a manual you can just switch in and out for the weekend.

Are we going to end up like the US where you are treated as some kind of minor deity if you can drive "Stick"


blearyeyedboy

6,252 posts

178 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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ZX10R NIN said:
OP this one is simple it comes down to what you prefer depending on what car it's in, for example I wouldn't want a Manual S Class at the same time I'd want a Manual Evora.
Nail on head. There are good and terrible applications of both.

Chromegrill

1,069 posts

85 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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Just try one for a while as only you can decide. Sporty sports car or smoker barge?

Autos can be a specialist interest if they go wrong, but then manual gearboxes can go pop too.

Reliability? Depends on the car. For instance the Rover 75 diesel manual clutch is a major piece of engineering to replace by all accounts, the auto box (diesel or petrol) is bomb proof.

Economy? Wifey's RAV4 petrol auto gives us 20mpg if we are lucky, way worse than the manual equivalent. But some autos are on a par with manuals (and ought to be, with all the computertrickery in them to optimise timing of gear shifts.

If nothing else, as internal combustion engined cars start to be phased out over the next couple of decades there will come a time when all cars are automatic anyway so may as well get used to them!

caziques

2,567 posts

167 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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A large percentage of the New Zealand car market is used cars from Japan, virtually all of them are auto.

All hire cars are auto, even my Honda Logo is auto (and does over 50mpg).

It came as a shock when I had a hire car in the UK recently (C3) as there was some sort of stick poking out of the floor.

2000 miles later (London, Colchester, Nottingham, Skegness, Glossop, Ffestiniog, Dumfries, Oban, Fort William, Ponterfract, Lampeter, London) - I had just about got used to it.

Back to NZ, Nissan Leaf and eNV200 - proper motoring with zero maintenance.

Manuals, hateful things.

bennettse2025

202 posts

72 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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I only drive autos now because of a health condition. I thought I'd miss manuals but I really don't. It saddens me that I'll never get to enjoy an s2000 but that's about the only tinge of anguish I have about being forced into the auto only club. And anyway, my favourite type of motoring (if you can call it a 'type') is wafting around in big body saloons, and they're available in autos anyway so I'm quite content. Certainly don't miss manual gear changes when I'm sat in traffic to and from work!

waremark

3,241 posts

212 months

Friday 20th April 2018
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DoubleD said:
waremark said:
I think you can say that a modern auto is simply better - faster, smoother than the best driver, more economical, offering a large measure of manual control if required. However, that is quite different from saying that everyone prefers driving even the best autos. I get great satisfaction from good gear changing, and in a household with a mix of manuals and autos I choose to use a manual most of the time - even for driving in town. Using paddles in an auto does not give any of that satisfaction.
Saying that you think a modern auto is better is your opinion. Facts are things like faster gear changes, because that can be measured.
So if an auto is faster, smoother, more economical and offering a large measure of manual control, on what parameter(s) could you suggest that a manual is better? Can you call the fact that it is more demanding of the driver and allows him/her to practice skills better?

By the way, I consider 'manuals' with autoblip to be the worst of both worlds - takes away much of the opportunity to practice skill, without giving any of the other benefits of an auto.