RE: Lamborghini Urus: Driven

RE: Lamborghini Urus: Driven

Author
Discussion

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Wednesday 25th April 2018
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hondansx said:
OK then, I'll chip in. I own a Performante, and have been to the Lamborghini factory twice in the last month.

I [i]do/i] think Lamborghini has sold their soul. In fact, Lamborghini personnel I spoke to are really upset they are using a forced induction engine, let alone building an SUV. That feeling doesn't seem to be offset by the fact they are effectively doubling the workforce; I guess they have jobs already so don't really care!

I agree with others in that this looks like a current Lamborghini they've then stretched and pulled to fit as an SUV, and looks ridiculous as a result. I don't need an SUV to look like a supercar; I'll happily just take a supercar and a 4x4.

It's somewhat telling that my friends who think the Urus is great are the same ones who whiten their teeth and talk about watches a lot. They are in it for the image; the status. They want to spend at least £60,000 more on this than a Cayenne Turbo to demonstrate they can afford it, not because this sets some kind of benchmark or they want to feel like they're driving a supercar whilst ferrying the kids about.

If someone tells me the SUV is required for Lamborghini to exist, then fair enough. Until then, for Christ's sake, can manufacturers stop being so obsessed with filling every niche possible? Lamborghini make supercars! This car cheapens the brand for me, and that will only continue as I start to see these all too commonly on British roads, driven by fat turds who can't fit in a regular Lambo.
I really like fast SUVs. My personal view is that you can drive faster for the same level of safety than you can in the equivalent saloon/estate on British roads. Cross country, A-B they are magnificent. And there is something inherently entertaining about hustling a fat van down a twisty B road.

I’ve also always hankered after a Lambo. There is something mental about the brand that Ferrari doesn’t have. There is a comedy theatre that puts a smile on your face like few other big ticket cars.

I’ve waited for this Lambo SUV excitedly. I like SUVs, I have a family that tends to be with me most times I use a car at this phase of my life and I’ve wanted a Lambo. As it became more and more clear that this SUV wasn’t actually going to be a Lamborghini I have become more upset. I don’t want an Audi. I don’t want a German car. I wanted something batst crazy and special designed and made by Italians only the way Italians can do. I wanted Lamborghini’s interpretation of what a fast road SUV in the 21st century could be. There is nothing remotely Italian about this car. There is nothing unique about this car. There is nothing special about this car. It is a total pisstake. Not because it’s an SUV but because it is neither Italian nor a Lamborghini.

hyphen

26,262 posts

89 months

Wednesday 25th April 2018
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Ur-ass reviewed in the Telegraph, I don't sign up so can't read, but the free bit quotes:

Lamborghini CEO said:
CEO Stefano Domenicali says that the order books are full and that 68 per cent are buying their first Lamborghini.
Which is interesting, that 68% may be the previously mentioned 'teeth whitened, watch collecting, too fat to get into a proper Lamborghini' types hehe

The next line is "With the Urus, the brand perceives itself.." anyone who does signup, can you post the rest of that sentence smile

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/25/venice...

Superflow

1,381 posts

131 months

Wednesday 25th April 2018
quotequote all
hondansx said:
OK then, I'll chip in. I own a Performante, and have been to the Lamborghini factory twice in the last month.

I [i]do/i] think Lamborghini has sold their soul. In fact, Lamborghini personnel I spoke to are really upset they are using a forced induction engine, let alone building an SUV. That feeling doesn't seem to be offset by the fact they are effectively doubling the workforce; I guess they have jobs already so don't really care!

I agree with others in that this looks like a current Lamborghini they've then stretched and pulled to fit as an SUV, and looks ridiculous as a result. I don't need an SUV to look like a supercar; I'll happily just take a supercar and a 4x4.

It's somewhat telling that my friends who think the Urus is great are the same ones who whiten their teeth and talk about watches a lot. They are in it for the image; the status. They want to spend at least £60,000 more on this than a Cayenne Turbo to demonstrate they can afford it, not because this sets some kind of benchmark or they want to feel like they're driving a supercar whilst ferrying the kids about.

If someone tells me the SUV is required for Lamborghini to exist, then fair enough. Until then, for Christ's sake, can manufacturers stop being so obsessed with filling every niche possible? Lamborghini make supercars! This car cheapens the brand for me, and that will only continue as I start to see these all too commonly on British roads, driven by fat turds who can't fit in a regular Lambo.
The bit about your friends says it all really.I'm not offended by the Urus but it is a narcissist's dream and not the Lamborghini I would choose.

Bladedancer

1,260 posts

195 months

Thursday 26th April 2018
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DonkeyApple said:
My personal view is that you can drive faster for the same level of safety than you can in the equivalent saloon/estate on British roads. Cross country, A-B they are magnificent.
Can you or is that just a perception? I don't think you'll be able to go FASTER in a 2.2 tonne colossus that you would in a 1.6 tonne estate. Corners tend to be a bit an issue here. Power-to-weight ration will also come into play.
Also, I'd like someone to link convincing evidence that a SUV is safer than an estate (say Q7 vs A6 or X5 vs 5-series for them to be roughly same size).

DonkeyApple said:
And there is something inherently entertaining about hustling a fat van down a twisty B road.
Is there? Looks like I've been doing it wrong, but the heavier and bulkier the car I drove on the B roads the less fun I had.

DonkeyApple said:
I’ve also always hankered after a Lambo. There is something mental about the brand that Ferrari doesn’t have. There is a comedy theatre that puts a smile on your face like few other big ticket cars.
Yes, but this one doesn't have ANY theatre to it. It is not mental in any way. It is a restyled Q7 and they forgot to put the front bumper on. That's the point.

DonkeyApple said:
I’ve waited for this Lambo SUV excitedly. I like SUVs, I have a family that tends to be with me most times I use a car at this phase of my life and I’ve wanted a Lambo. As it became more and more clear that this SUV wasn’t actually going to be a Lamborghini I have become more upset. I don’t want an Audi. I don’t want a German car. I wanted something batst crazy and special designed and made by Italians only the way Italians can do. I wanted Lamborghini’s interpretation of what a fast road SUV in the 21st century could be. There is nothing remotely Italian about this car. There is nothing unique about this car. There is nothing special about this car. It is a total pisstake. Not because it’s an SUV but because it is neither Italian nor a Lamborghini.
Problem is, your are getting an Audi. With a different badge. And there was no other way to do it because VAG won't put money into a new platform only for Lambo to use when they already have one that Audi, VW and Bentley are using.

Also, you don't need a SUV to take the family with you. For goodness sake, have people forgot the thing called 'estate car' exists?

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

253 months

Thursday 26th April 2018
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How special must it feel to get into your readied toureg full of vag parts.

The only Lamborghini in this is the badge itself.

And that front end least the cayenne is no longer the ugliest I guess.


Lamborghini was always my top car brand grew up with the usual posters etc.

When vag bought them they actually handled it with care, even the r8 wasn't too bad a deal.

But wow this. Nope. No need either. I'm sure they'll sell well but ffs

Edited by RobDickinson on Thursday 26th April 07:57

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Thursday 26th April 2018
quotequote all
Bladedancer said:
DonkeyApple said:
My personal view is that you can drive faster for the same level of safety than you can in the equivalent saloon/estate on British roads. Cross country, A-B they are magnificent.
Can you or is that just a perception? I don't think you'll be able to go FASTER in a 2.2 tonne colossus that you would in a 1.6 tonne estate. Corners tend to be a bit an issue here. Power-to-weight ration will also come into play.
Also, I'd like someone to link convincing evidence that a SUV is safer than an estate (say Q7 vs A6 or X5 vs 5-series for them to be roughly same size).

DonkeyApple said:
And there is something inherently entertaining about hustling a fat van down a twisty B road.
Is there? Looks like I've been doing it wrong, but the heavier and bulkier the car I drove on the B roads the less fun I had.

DonkeyApple said:
I’ve also always hankered after a Lambo. There is something mental about the brand that Ferrari doesn’t have. There is a comedy theatre that puts a smile on your face like few other big ticket cars.
Yes, but this one doesn't have ANY theatre to it. It is not mental in any way. It is a restyled Q7 and they forgot to put the front bumper on. That's the point.

DonkeyApple said:
I’ve waited for this Lambo SUV excitedly. I like SUVs, I have a family that tends to be with me most times I use a car at this phase of my life and I’ve wanted a Lambo. As it became more and more clear that this SUV wasn’t actually going to be a Lamborghini I have become more upset. I don’t want an Audi. I don’t want a German car. I wanted something batst crazy and special designed and made by Italians only the way Italians can do. I wanted Lamborghini’s interpretation of what a fast road SUV in the 21st century could be. There is nothing remotely Italian about this car. There is nothing unique about this car. There is nothing special about this car. It is a total pisstake. Not because it’s an SUV but because it is neither Italian nor a Lamborghini.
Problem is, your are getting an Audi. With a different badge. And there was no other way to do it because VAG won't put money into a new platform only for Lambo to use when they already have one that Audi, VW and Bentley are using.

Also, you don't need a SUV to take the family with you. For goodness sake, have people forgot the thing called 'estate car' exists?
It’s not perception. We are talking about driving on U.K. roads so cornering is irrelevant as we aren’t talking about race tracks where obviously the cornering advantage of a lower car with equal power would make it much quicker. We’re looking at traveling roughly around the speed limit so that aspect never comes into play.

What does come into play is the rather significant increase in how far you can see ahead in a number of situations meaning you can travel quicker for the same risk but also this advantage opens up a greater number of over taking opportunities on many typical B roads.

As someone who owns very low sports cars, saloons and SUVs I see this all very clearly on our roads. But it always seems to be people who don’t own an SUV who pop up to tell me I am wrong and that the fact that a car can corner quicker in a race situation means that it can corner quicker on the road and see the road ahead just as clearly and that an estate is better.

It is fun driving one of these performance whales at speed. The fun is that they shouldn’t be able to do what they can do.

Ninja59

3,691 posts

111 months

Thursday 26th April 2018
quotequote all
I do question the "safety" angle this has been brought up all so often by many that like them from the mum taking kids to school to now.

I think that is questionable considering a number of SUV's have suffered issues in history regarding risk of roll over. Furthermore, in an accident being higher up is it any safer? I don't think so personally.

As for being able to see further I do partially agree having driven some of BMW's X Range. But, equally I have found that many drivers of such vehicles then become equally impatient with other drivers and drive more aggressively as a result IMO.

As for this particular machine like many others rewarmed VAG bits in a majority and just taking the pee, nothing really that special. Furthermore, as for the styling how can Lambo have repeated the same issue Porsche suffered with the original Cayenne.

swisstoni

16,850 posts

278 months

Thursday 26th April 2018
quotequote all
Ninja59 said:
I do question the "safety" angle this has been brought up all so often by many that like them from the mum taking kids to school to now.
Most buyers wouldn't know about any high speed instability issues. What they think is that bigger is safer. They also might assume (often wrongly) that there is more space inside these things. And finally they like the high seating position.

hyphen

26,262 posts

89 months

Thursday 26th April 2018
quotequote all
Ninja59 said:
I do question the "safety" angle this has been brought up all so often by many that like them from the mum taking kids to school to now.

I think that is questionable considering a number of SUV's have suffered issues in history regarding risk of roll over. Furthermore, in an accident being higher up is it any safer? I don't think so personally.
It's a vicious circle isn't it.

They see the large and aggressively styled SUV's and think about how guilty they would feel if they were hit by one in their normal sized car and little Tarquin died. And so it continues until everyone has one.

I said in the Ant McPartlin thread, it was lucky that it was his mini that hit another mini, as his full fat RangeRover, which was in for repairs, may have caused much more damage.

PhantomPH

4,043 posts

224 months

Thursday 26th April 2018
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Every now and again PH throws up a thread like this that contains every clichė, stereotype and bitterness possible. Like everyone is just working from a stock list of replies.

I’m starting to think that PH is not actually real and is just an AI bot that has suckered me in.

Bladedancer

1,260 posts

195 months

Thursday 26th April 2018
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DonkeyApple said:
It’s not perception. We are talking about driving on U.K. roads so cornering is irrelevant as we aren’t talking about race tracks where obviously the cornering advantage of a lower car with equal power would make it much quicker. We’re looking at traveling roughly around the speed limit so that aspect never comes into play.
I'm confused here. I though we were talking B-roads, not M-ways.
And cornering is the fun part. Even american cars can go fast in a straight line.
Going on an M-way just needs to be comfy and there are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better cars for that than this.

DonkeyApple said:
What does come into play is the rather significant increase in how far you can see ahead in a number of situations meaning you can travel quicker for the same risk but also this advantage opens up a greater number of over taking opportunities on many typical B roads.
Erm... are you referring to higher driving position? Not going to be the case when everyone has a SUV and you still can't see a thing.
Also, you seem to be mixing ability to see past a car in front of you and seeing the road ahead of you in general, or just ignoring the latter.

DonkeyApple said:
As someone who owns very low sports cars, saloons and SUVs I see this all very clearly on our roads. But it always seems to be people who don’t own an SUV who pop up to tell me I am wrong and that the fact that a car can corner quicker in a race situation means that it can corner quicker on the road and see the road ahead just as clearly and that an estate is better.
You're assuming in SUV you will ALWAYS see more. That is incorrect. In fact, on most small roads with hedges on both sides you'll see roughly the same round a bend as a Lotus Exige would. If there are no hedges then, well seeing past a bend depends on what's on the side of the road, doesn't it? So yes, you might see further.
Seeing past a car in front of you only works if that car is lower, and this won't soon be the case with so many SUVs on the roads or you can fairly clearly see through its back window and through windscreen, and that depends on the car.
So, to sum up, while in many cases you will see more, in many others you'll see pretty much the same.
And you're trading that for higher center of gravity and (usually) higher mass.

While I don't doubt your experience, having had similar one on UK (and continental European) roads I can say that my opinion is very different. Now, I could say that SUV people pop up telling me how SUVs handle just as well as smaller cars, but I won't because it's counter productive.

DonkeyApple said:
It is fun driving one of these performance whales at speed. The fun is that they shouldn’t be able to do what they can do.
Obviously, we have different definitions of "fun".
But then again I think was pretty obvious the moment you said "cornering is irrelevant".

DonkeyApple

54,923 posts

168 months

Thursday 26th April 2018
quotequote all
Bladedancer said:
Obviously, we have different definitions of "fun".
But then again I think was pretty obvious the moment you said "cornering is irrelevant".
It’s the context of that that is pertinent. You seem to have taken it out of that context.

Think of it another way. On the road you generally operate around the speed limit. If you’re in a car capable of taking a 40 mph corner at 100+ where is the fun in taking that car around that corner at 40, 50, 60 even 70+? Where’s the reward?

The roads aren’t a race track. The faster the car is and the better it handles then the more boring it becomes at cornering as you will always be doing so restricted by the rules of the road which will be well within the capabilities of the vehicle. Now take a car with the same kind of performance but not quite as good handling and you start to get a challenge back with regards to cornering.

I would actually say that I have a much keener desire to drive cars that make cornering fun than the person who drives a car that simply can never be tested to anywhere near its capabilities on a public road. Where’s the logic in professing to enjoy cornering and then using a car which presents absolutely no challenge or requires no skill?

Quickmoose

4,482 posts

122 months

Thursday 26th April 2018
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PhantomPH said:
Every now and again PH throws up a thread like this that contains every clich?, stereotype and bitterness possible. Like everyone is just working from a stock list of replies.

I’m starting to think that PH is not actually real and is just an AI bot that has suckered me in.
Or could it be that just maybe every once in a while PH throws up a thread where you're in the minority?
I'm yet to see, read or hear anything redeeming, special or unique about this product.
And for me that's enough to critique it and bemoan the lack of anything worthy especially considering that badge on its' nose.
This is profiteering pure and simple. Wouldn't it be amazing if they just said that. It doesn't prop up Lambo so that they can make mad/bad supercars, it's not keeping the company afloat.... it's cashing in.
I've no problem with VAG or Lambo milking their demographic... but it seems to me the buyers aren't existing Lambo owners who appreciate bespoke mad/badness... this is milking the new status seekers, who don't know or care about what Lambo stand for...or at least used to stand for.

Clichés aren't just made up and taken as 'real' by everyone....they're seen, heard and felt.

Ed-jd5sj

1 posts

71 months

Thursday 26th April 2018
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First ever lambo SUV? Are you forgetting the 'mighty' Lamborghini LM002

hyphen

26,262 posts

89 months

Thursday 26th April 2018
quotequote all
Quickmoose said:
PhantomPH said:
Every now and again PH throws up a thread like this that contains every clich?, stereotype and bitterness possible. Like everyone is just working from a stock list of replies.

I’m starting to think that PH is not actually real and is just an AI bot that has suckered me in.
Or could it be that just maybe every once in a while PH throws up a thread where you're in the minority?
hehe

PhantomPH

4,043 posts

224 months

Thursday 26th April 2018
quotequote all
hyphen said:
Quickmoose said:
PhantomPH said:
Every now and again PH throws up a thread like this that contains every clich?, stereotype and bitterness possible. Like everyone is just working from a stock list of replies.

I’m starting to think that PH is not actually real and is just an AI bot that has suckered me in.
Or could it be that just maybe every once in a while PH throws up a thread where you're in the minority?
hehe
Most probably! Ha ha. Makes for a fun read, tho. biggrin

GuitarPlayer63

198 posts

148 months

Thursday 26th April 2018
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It looks like the front end has yet to be clamped together - or the superglue that was holding it let go.

That said, it looks pretty decent from quite a few other angles, and most will probably only see the back of it as it thunders past them (unless in Kensington, where they will never get past 4mph).

At least it has some character, the Bentayga looks like a pumped up hearse...

Pro Bono

586 posts

76 months

Thursday 26th April 2018
quotequote all
An ugly Lamborghini that was driven by marketing, needs artificial noise enhancement, seats five, weighs 2.2 tonnes, tries to be 'sporty' despite offering up to 248mm of ground clearance, has split-fold rear seats, fits two golf bags and yet still somehow thinks it's worthy of having that badge on its nose. It's everything I hate. And I like it.

And I hate it. The fat, ugly lump represents all that's worst about the contemporary car market. Companies like Lamborghini that used to be owned and run by people who loved cars are now owned and run by men in suits who don't care whether they're making and selling cars or burgers.

The outcome is abortions like this monster, which is an insult to the Lamborghini name. Although I've always seen many Lambos as OTT they did have a bizarre beauty, as they were actually designed with a pure purpose in mind - to go bloody fast! They were basically road legal racing cars, designed to get from A to B as fast as possible, and to hell with any practicality.

The result of VW buying Lamborghini is like those private equity groups who buy a famous company that's built a great reputation up over decades by producing quality products. Once they've gained control they `leverage the brand' to use their hideous term and cynically exploit the reputation while destroying the product. Eventually, of course, the brand will be destroyed, but in the meantime the owners have stuffed their pockets with cash and moved on to destroy the next company.

I've no doubt this monstrosity will sell well - not because it's actually any good, but because there are now so many people with shed loads of ill-gotten gains (private equity investors for example!) who have no aesthetic sense at all and will buy a vehicle like this simply because in their stupidity they think people will be impressed by it, not realising they're actually being laughed at.

Trying to make what's basically a van into a supercar is like trying to turn an old woman into a young one with plastic surgery - and the results are surprisingly similar:


techguyone

3,137 posts

141 months

Friday 27th April 2018
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It's just full circle, weren't Lamborghini originally making tractors in the old days ?

Fetchez la vache

5,568 posts

213 months

Friday 27th April 2018
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techguyone said:
It's just full circle, weren't Lamborghini originally making tractors in the old days ?
yes. Until recently the RNLI used an old one to pull one of the local (small) lifeboats.

I really want to like this car, and the performance obviously isn't to be sniffed at - by everything "measurable" like the performance and presumably interior opulence (do like those seats!) this is a winner...
(Probable cliche alert!)
..but those things you can't measure such as the actual Lambo DNA (maybe you could put a % on unique parts?) it doesn't seem to be a Lambo. Externally rather than a "Wow!!" or batst crazy design they have chosen an ill-resolved one and it just looks a bit odd.If they had stuffed an engine used elsewhere in their range I could give it some slack, but they haven't.
We all know this is a shared platform car, but somehow (for me anyway) Porsche have managed to walk the line, and from what I can see Lambo haven't (or possibly were't allowed to). I hope the owners enjoy the car as it'll no doubt be immense, but for me the Urus is not really a Lamborghini. It's just a bit corporate.