Way too powerful
Discussion
NFC 85 Vette said:
Some race cars have felt a little more unsettled. The old Fiat Topolino altered struggled a tad. Around 2500bhp, just over 900kg and no front wing; it became quite lively above 190mph and tended to lift the front wheels (so steering became something of a challenge). You can never have too much power, it just needs the rest of the equation to be setup for it 
Thread winner right there 
seiben said:
rxe said:
I drove a mate’s Impreza about a decade ago and it sticks in my mind. He’d had it modified, big exhaust, the whole 9 yards. Figures beginning with 4 were mentioned and shown on dyno charts - he believed it anyway. I got to have a go in it, and was looking forward to having a bit of fun in one of the iconic cars of the time.
What a disappointment. The throttle was binary and very non linear. You either had power or nothing, with very little consistency as to when you got power. Every time you went round a corner, it tried to kill you. The worst thing was it tried to kill you inconsistently. The back would squirm and break out in random directions when you put the power down. It was quite good fun on a dead straight empty road, but such a handful on the twisty stuff that i drove like a granny for about 60 miles. I had far more fun on the drive home in my Alfa with less than half the power and FWD.
I’m toying with the idea of getting a Giulia QV - but the reality is that my GT 3.2, with a paltry 240 HP is barely exploited on the roads, and I don’t think the solution is doubling the power.
A friend of mine had something very similar - a WRX that had had various work which took it to around 400bhp. It was my first experience of launch control (that was fun!) but was a royal pig to have any fun with through a flowing back-road - it would come on boost so violently that if you were mid-corner it would just lift the nose and understeer. Not much fun.What a disappointment. The throttle was binary and very non linear. You either had power or nothing, with very little consistency as to when you got power. Every time you went round a corner, it tried to kill you. The worst thing was it tried to kill you inconsistently. The back would squirm and break out in random directions when you put the power down. It was quite good fun on a dead straight empty road, but such a handful on the twisty stuff that i drove like a granny for about 60 miles. I had far more fun on the drive home in my Alfa with less than half the power and FWD.
I’m toying with the idea of getting a Giulia QV - but the reality is that my GT 3.2, with a paltry 240 HP is barely exploited on the roads, and I don’t think the solution is doubling the power.
By contrast my current E39 M5, with similar power, hooks up beautifully in the dry and never feels 'over-powered.' It'll spin up in the wet, of course, but it's a lovely playful thing in the dry with DSC switched off and handles the power well. Although I can't say I've ever got out and thought "hmm, this needs more power"
My GTV is only the 3.0 so perhaps 220bhp on a good day, and personally I find that's nicely exploitable on the road as you get quite a lot of acceleration time before you're getting uncomfortably fast, and obviously it sounds phenomenal (ragazzon exhaust helps)
My Monaro is approx. twice the power now, so not dissimilar to the E39 M5 (albeit less sophisticated handling I imagine) and although you can't accelerate for as long, it's still a huge amount of fun on the road, although perhaps the engine's character helps, as it's still fun at idle
I'm sure the QV would be fiiiiiiine, go on, get one
I tracked a Jaguar F Type SVR recently - and it felt way too much... very, er, 'lively'. Heaven knows what a heavy footed road user would make of it. Great fun, but mental.
My current sunshine car is a Morgan +8 - which is armed with a 4.8 BMW V8. Far too much power for the size and type of car, but it really works, a bit of a sleeper.
But are these cars 'too powerful'? I'm not sure. I guess sometimes there's more power than a chassis can deal with, but unlikely from an unmodified car.
My current sunshine car is a Morgan +8 - which is armed with a 4.8 BMW V8. Far too much power for the size and type of car, but it really works, a bit of a sleeper.
But are these cars 'too powerful'? I'm not sure. I guess sometimes there's more power than a chassis can deal with, but unlikely from an unmodified car.
Edited by NDA on Monday 23 April 20:20
About twelve years ago I was lucky enough to be in a mildly tweaked 4.5 Cerbera for a Hoon, the owner rang its neck in 2nd and 3rd. To this day that was the most savage bonkers feeling of car acceleration I have felt. I took the brother in laws Carrera 4s out last year,(420 Horse version I think) yes it was quick but felt quite sanitised compared to the TVR's raw and alive feel. Driver aids.
Bikes another story, last time I twisted the throttle in anger was looking after a friends stable, Honda Blackbird, Highwayabuser and ZX12r. Third gear roll on's totally insane, far to much but never enough looking at today's hyper bikes. I preferred my old Mk1 Guzzi le Mans at least you could feel the speed.
Bikes another story, last time I twisted the throttle in anger was looking after a friends stable, Honda Blackbird, Highwayabuser and ZX12r. Third gear roll on's totally insane, far to much but never enough looking at today's hyper bikes. I preferred my old Mk1 Guzzi le Mans at least you could feel the speed.
NDA said:
I tracked a Jaguar F Type SVR recently - and it felt way too much... very, er, 'lively'. Heaven knows what a heavy footed road user would make of it. Great fun, but mental.
I find that a little surprising compared to my experiences - I find the SVR quite tame compared to a RWD V8 R. Especially in the wet/cold, the R would wag its tail at even a hint of throttle, so much low down torque you don't feel like you're trying at all and still you overwhelm the rear tyres. Over the limit they are both quite lively however, snappy at times. Strangely I found a Project 7 more manageable, it had a degree of progression to it.daemon said:
I remember driving a friends heavily modded 1985 mk1 RS Turbo back at the time and holding on to the steering wheel for grim death to keep control of it. Just a matter of a few years later i did the same speed run in a 200BHP standard 1994 Rover 220GSi Turbo and you could have held the car with one finger on the steering wheel.
Ability to get the power down is whats changed. Our A45 is perfectly tractable and driveable as an everyday car - probably unheard of 10-15 years ago in a car with similar BHP.
this ^ i had the same experience many moons ago in a mk1 rs turbo. my brother has an edition 30 with what i thin k is a crap map. power comes in way too quickly. proper handful on the local b roads,particularly with a hint of dampness. my 2008 fireblade was easier to ride quickly in pouring rain.Ability to get the power down is whats changed. Our A45 is perfectly tractable and driveable as an everyday car - probably unheard of 10-15 years ago in a car with similar BHP.
daemon said:
I remember driving a friends heavily modded 1985 mk1 RS Turbo back at the time and holding on to the steering wheel for grim death to keep control of it. Just a matter of a few years later i did the same speed run in a 200BHP standard 1994 Rover 220GSi Turbo and you could have held the car with one finger on the steering wheel.
Those Rovers torque steered like nobodies business. 
Possibly there is such a thing as 'too much', but I haven't experienced it yet.
I regularly drive or passenger in 700bhp 911 Turbos, 900bhp GTR's, 900bhp Evo's, that kind of thing, as well as as riding bikes with the thick end of 200bhp.
You simply get used to it and always find yourself saying "Could do with a bit more".
As long as the power is delivered in a reasonably controllable manner, you could easily use 1500-2000bhp on the public road.
Just go on YouTube and look at all the videos of 1000bhp GTR's, 2000bhp Gallardo Turbos, and bikes racing racing each other.
That kind of power is easily usable, and massively fun.
I regularly drive or passenger in 700bhp 911 Turbos, 900bhp GTR's, 900bhp Evo's, that kind of thing, as well as as riding bikes with the thick end of 200bhp.
You simply get used to it and always find yourself saying "Could do with a bit more".
As long as the power is delivered in a reasonably controllable manner, you could easily use 1500-2000bhp on the public road.
Just go on YouTube and look at all the videos of 1000bhp GTR's, 2000bhp Gallardo Turbos, and bikes racing racing each other.
That kind of power is easily usable, and massively fun.
Welshbeef said:
What road car engine has the highest BHP at idle and what power is it?
Surely that by default would be too fast?
At idle an engine is making enough power to turn itself, so shouldn't they all be zero? Unless you count it's peak output on an engine break before it cuts out/stalls?Surely that by default would be too fast?
BrassMan said:
At idle an engine is making enough power to turn itself, so shouldn't they all be zero? Unless you count it's peak output on an engine break before it cuts out/stalls?
http://www.dmsautomotive.com/upgrades/bmw-m5-30-jahre-edition-f10/From that dunk it appears this F10 M5 30 Jarah is pushing our 175bhp at 1,000rpm idle is what 750-800rpm - as such that’s making more power in a couple of hundred revs than a Renault Clio sport makes all our bonkers fast
Getting the traction control light flashing at 160mph is too much power
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y2f3JGuCZQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y2f3JGuCZQ
WestyCarl said:
I drove an Ariel Atom Supercharged on a wet track recently, it's one of the few cars that I never really felt in control of.
I know what you mean - I was fortunate enough to drive one on a dry track. The approach to every corner had me consciously forcing myself to go more quickly than my subconscious wanted me too. Every moment was an internal battle and it felt like the car only stayed on the track because the car wanted to stay on the track! It certainly wasn't a handful, it was a beautifully set-up machine, but it is the only car I've ever driven that truly made me aware of my own limitations.
It was also the only car I've ever driven once and immediately (as soon as I had my helmet off) been on the internet to try and find one to buy, I enjoyed it that much. Bit rich for my tastes unfortunately (they have really kept their value) but I would have one in an instant.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around motorbike ownership. My triumph Daytona revs to 18k and produces well in excess of 110bhp. When pootling along normally, you don't notice this but if you leave it in a low gear and pin it, even briefly, you find yourself doing a wheelie at silly speeds. I do like the bike but if I was to buy a new one I'd pick something less race focused (quick) I could thrash properly on the roads without killing myself. How people own 200 bhp machines without giving in to temptation is beyond me!
I suspect a track day is in order...
matthias73 said:
I'm still trying to wrap my head around motorbike ownership. My triumph Daytona revs to 18k and produces well in excess of 110bhp. When pootling along normally, you don't notice this but if you leave it in a low gear and pin it, even briefly, you find yourself doing a wheelie at silly speeds. I do like the bike but if I was to buy a new one I'd pick something less race focused (quick) I could thrash properly on the roads without killing myself. How people own 200 bhp machines without giving in to temptation is beyond me!
I suspect a track day is in order...
I dunno how you bike lot do it, there's some cars people would be scared to name in this thread that have less power than some bikes... a 250cc scooter is too mad for me!I suspect a track day is in order...
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