Cars taking on bikes (again)
Discussion
Let’s also not forget there’s a difference between being a middle aged Dad with no point to prove and and sense of self preservation vs Ned in his Golf. I’m 47 and honestly I cannot be bothered to try and go fast anymore. Especially since a pretty major bike accident 10 years ago. Not scared, just more aware and cannot be arsed.
blade7 said:
ChilliWhizz said:
Bikes haven't really come along way I don't think... at least in terms of outright acceleration... I bought a ZX10 in 1989 which according to the book was 0-60 in 3, 0-100 in six, and 0-100-0 in ten seconds... It was though the fastest prod bike that MCN had tested at the time... 168 top end, although IIRC the ZZR topped 170 just a few short years later...
Aside from the fact the 89 ZX10 turned like an oil tanker, I'd say a 25 mph increase in top speed, combined with electronics that allow you to brake and pin the throttle in corners, plus flat shift through the gearbox to max speed is progress.
J4CKO said:
keirik said:
J4CKO said:
I love bikes but they are essentially useless for anything other than going fast and delivering Pizza, they accelerate very quickly due to low weight vs the power they have, they are low weight because you cant carry much, you get wet if it rains and you have to dress up in leather and wear a massive hat in a vain attempt at protecting yourself in case you fall off it, as, you see it only has two wheels so it cant stand up on its own, and bikers always fall off, not always their fault but all the ones I know have had at least one off, one got knocked off and his boot came off, he looked down and realise his foot was still in it which, it has to be said, put me off a bit.
So, most bikes are tucked up in the garage on a trickle charger most of the year, come a bank holiday, then they all appear going for a ride out, mixing it with all the BH traffic, they then arrive, in their millions at one of their spawning grounds like Matlock, they park up and strut round, get a Bacon Butty, stand round and talk about bikes, then get back on and ride back, which is great but generally they are cock all use for anything else, most of the year unless you are a lunatic who likes getting wet and dicing with death and getting mangled every day.
As transport, they work for a few hardy souls, but lets have it right, most put on less than a thousand miles a year, all the bikers I know that commuted on them admit defeat and get a car, realistically most sports bikes at least are more akin to a piece of sports equipment than daily transport, owning one more lifestyle choice than a necessity in most cases. Always find it amusing how many bikers feel the need to let you know they are one when its tucked up for 8 months with merchandise or an Email Address like NinjaDave750@hotmail.com. They will tell you it will out accelerate a Lamborghini, but which would they rather have, Lambo or a ten year old Hayabusa ?
Like I said, love bikes and know loads of bikers but come on, very, very, terrifyingly fast, but largely not much use for most people, most of the time.
They always if you are in anything remotely interesting seem to want to point out how slow your car is, had an R6 rider determined to show how slow my 350Z was, i was kind of aware of its depleted uranium construction and moderately powerful NA V6 engine, he or shee nearly got greased on a roundabout as they were too busy concentrating on me, yes its faster, well done but I am having fun anyway, now p
s off as I dont want you on my conscience.
dont disagree with a lot of the stuff above about bikes, but mine put on 25k miles over the last 18 months and was the perfect commuting vehicle.So, most bikes are tucked up in the garage on a trickle charger most of the year, come a bank holiday, then they all appear going for a ride out, mixing it with all the BH traffic, they then arrive, in their millions at one of their spawning grounds like Matlock, they park up and strut round, get a Bacon Butty, stand round and talk about bikes, then get back on and ride back, which is great but generally they are cock all use for anything else, most of the year unless you are a lunatic who likes getting wet and dicing with death and getting mangled every day.
As transport, they work for a few hardy souls, but lets have it right, most put on less than a thousand miles a year, all the bikers I know that commuted on them admit defeat and get a car, realistically most sports bikes at least are more akin to a piece of sports equipment than daily transport, owning one more lifestyle choice than a necessity in most cases. Always find it amusing how many bikers feel the need to let you know they are one when its tucked up for 8 months with merchandise or an Email Address like NinjaDave750@hotmail.com. They will tell you it will out accelerate a Lamborghini, but which would they rather have, Lambo or a ten year old Hayabusa ?
Like I said, love bikes and know loads of bikers but come on, very, very, terrifyingly fast, but largely not much use for most people, most of the time.
They always if you are in anything remotely interesting seem to want to point out how slow your car is, had an R6 rider determined to show how slow my 350Z was, i was kind of aware of its depleted uranium construction and moderately powerful NA V6 engine, he or shee nearly got greased on a roundabout as they were too busy concentrating on me, yes its faster, well done but I am having fun anyway, now p
s off as I dont want you on my conscience.normalbloke said:
swerni said:
normalbloke said:
I've done litre bikes and owned a couple of Caterhams. One of which was 400bhp. On the right road (traffic aside) the Caterham would leave the bike fairly easily. Bikes have one Greta strength, acceleration. Everything else they do pretty poorly ( corner, change direction,stop etc) It's also one of motoring's longest running arguments.
The 620R was only 311bhp.Do you mean 400bhp / ton?
I suppose I fit into the born again biker category. 41, just passed my test, bought the bike of my youth, an RGV 250. I've put 100 fun miles on it so far, I would put more on it, but I work away.
I can't ride it fast, have zero talent but I can give it a twist when the handle bars are straight and practice a few good roads I know, slowly building my confidence. That is until I have another 6-8 weeks away at work, so I have to learn it all again when I'm home.
I couldn't care less about someone racing me in their German sports car, I've got two at home aswell as a Japanese supercar, not to mention a high powered seven. None of which are driven to their abilities, as all are much more capable than I am. But I enjoy driving them, all of them, even if it's just fast in a straight line!
I can't ride it fast, have zero talent but I can give it a twist when the handle bars are straight and practice a few good roads I know, slowly building my confidence. That is until I have another 6-8 weeks away at work, so I have to learn it all again when I'm home.
I couldn't care less about someone racing me in their German sports car, I've got two at home aswell as a Japanese supercar, not to mention a high powered seven. None of which are driven to their abilities, as all are much more capable than I am. But I enjoy driving them, all of them, even if it's just fast in a straight line!
To get 0-100 in 5.0-6.0 and 60-100 in 2-3 seconds is premier league stuff. No performance saloon car is getting close to that. Nkt even a remapped Golf R which would outdrag a Chiron being towed by a eurofighter.
Bikes achilles heel in pure acceleration has always been the launch, its simple physics. However rolling and a good rider (not even that tbh) and a QS its 1-0 bike.
Bikes are as practical as you want. Using their lack of carrying ability or weather protection is a moot point. Maybe the rider prefers being home an hour earlier playing with his kids? Very easy to bend either way to suit any argument...
[/quote]
Super cars can do 100 in 6 secs and also the majority of riders won’t be able to put that time in or close unlike a car that just plants his right foot.
Bikes achilles heel in pure acceleration has always been the launch, its simple physics. However rolling and a good rider (not even that tbh) and a QS its 1-0 bike.
Bikes are as practical as you want. Using their lack of carrying ability or weather protection is a moot point. Maybe the rider prefers being home an hour earlier playing with his kids? Very easy to bend either way to suit any argument...
Edited by RemyMartin81D on Tuesday 24th April 17:59
[/quote]
Super cars can do 100 in 6 secs and also the majority of riders won’t be able to put that time in or close unlike a car that just plants his right foot.
[/quote]
Super cars can do 100 in 6 secs and also the majority of riders won’t be able to put that time in or close unlike a car that just plants his right foot.
[/quote]
Or left foot as well (on the clutch) in the case of the more skilfull 'manuel' car driver.
Yes, granted, unfortunately it's a dying art.
Things I've learnt in my experience as a biker and car nut.
I'm far better at launching a DSG Audi R8 than I am a bike. In fact, I'm far better at launching any car than a bike. And I'm not great at launching cars.
It's far easier to park a bike in a busy town than a car.
Bikes are far more fun to roadtrip on.
And if engines really turn you on, you owe it to yourself to try a bike.
I'm far better at launching a DSG Audi R8 than I am a bike. In fact, I'm far better at launching any car than a bike. And I'm not great at launching cars.
It's far easier to park a bike in a busy town than a car.
Bikes are far more fun to roadtrip on.
And if engines really turn you on, you owe it to yourself to try a bike.
Krikkit said:
Are there any numbers on how fast a MotoGP bike is off the line? Power-weight?
Modern F1 cars are 1000hp and 728kg ready to rock, with hot slicks they launch well, around 2.5s 0-60, 4s 0-100.
Not trying to argue, just an interesting comparison.
Current bikes are 160kg and 250bhp+... I read the current Ducati is approaching 270bhp.Modern F1 cars are 1000hp and 728kg ready to rock, with hot slicks they launch well, around 2.5s 0-60, 4s 0-100.
Not trying to argue, just an interesting comparison.
Unsure of 2018 acceleration times but this video from a few seasons ago shows 0-186mph in 9 seconds.
https://youtu.be/3-UVPVflDKw
Edit: seems someone has done the hard work for us https://youtu.be/I6-JoQ00m7Q
Edited by shielsy on Tuesday 24th April 23:28
If my car were as fast as my bike, it still wouldn't be as fast as my bike...
On real roads with real traffic.
Bikes sit higher and they're narrower. They can safely perform overtakes that even the fastest cars can only dream about.
My little commuter bike would lose a dual carriageway dust up to any of the current crop of GTis. But come up behind Caravan Kenneth on a twisty B road and it's getting past where the car definitely ain't.
And that's why I don't drive cars for fun anymore because the fun just don't last long.
On real roads with real traffic.
Bikes sit higher and they're narrower. They can safely perform overtakes that even the fastest cars can only dream about.
My little commuter bike would lose a dual carriageway dust up to any of the current crop of GTis. But come up behind Caravan Kenneth on a twisty B road and it's getting past where the car definitely ain't.
And that's why I don't drive cars for fun anymore because the fun just don't last long.
DJP said:
And that's why I don't drive cars for fun anymore because the fun just don't last long.
It’s easier to find space on a bike, easier to make your way to the front of lines of traffic etc so you’re in space for the fun bits of road. The very easy overtaking is a useful tool for that.But I don’t have any difficulty having fun in my car.
av185 said:
Try a different real road
That’s an interesting example. I probably do 5 times the miles for fun in my car than I do on my bike. But that picture, great visibility, good road, quiet - that’s a road where a bike really will thrill in a way that a car just can’t quite do (even though in a great car it would off course be fabulous fun).Plenty of room to appreciate both.
Hungrymc said:
av185 said:
Try a different real road
That’s an interesting example. I probably do 5 times the miles for fun in my car than I do on my bike. But that picture, great visibility, good road, quiet - that’s a road where a bike really will thrill in a way that a car just can’t quite do (even though in a great car it would off course be fabulous fun).Plenty of room to appreciate both.
Question is if someone enjoys fast bikes and fast cars in equal measures which would be the preferred 'weapon' of choice on superb driving/riding roads like these?
jimPH said:
normalbloke said:
swerni said:
normalbloke said:
I've done litre bikes and owned a couple of Caterhams. One of which was 400bhp. On the right road (traffic aside) the Caterham would leave the bike fairly easily. Bikes have one Greta strength, acceleration. Everything else they do pretty poorly ( corner, change direction,stop etc) It's also one of motoring's longest running arguments.
The 620R was only 311bhp.Do you mean 400bhp / ton?
I love mine. Mine was 430bhp mid upgrade project to 550bhp
These sevens are basically fun cars and I find heavily turbo charged cars the most fun. Probably 0-100 in six ish and 60-100 in considerably less. Will be circa 670kgs Inc my arse in the Seat. Nice power to weight ratio
Camelot1971 said:
Evolved said:
What a pair of see you next Tuesdays.jimPH said:
normalbloke said:
swerni said:
normalbloke said:
I've done litre bikes and owned a couple of Caterhams. One of which was 400bhp. On the right road (traffic aside) the Caterham would leave the bike fairly easily. Bikes have one Greta strength, acceleration. Everything else they do pretty poorly ( corner, change direction,stop etc) It's also one of motoring's longest running arguments.
The 620R was only 311bhp.Do you mean 400bhp / ton?
Personally, I would stick to a N/A engine in a car like that but the point is it can work and can be fun to run a Cosworth engine.
I think dissipating the heat was the biggest challenge (withstanding traction issues!).
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