Cars taking on bikes (again)
Discussion
Fastdruid said:
On a semi-serious note it does annoy me when slow riders filter to the front of a queue. No bike (apart from mopeds) should ever be beaten off the line by a Mondeo estate yet it is a common occurrence.
IMO if you're going to filter to the front you should consider it pole position in the TL GP and launch appropriately.
Hmm. I get what you're saying but there have been quite a few times where I've filtered to the front and let the car go first because I've sensed he's going to do a launch and not allow me time to go first. I know I can beat the car, I just don't want to be competing for space against someone who won't make allowances.IMO if you're going to filter to the front you should consider it pole position in the TL GP and launch appropriately.
toon10 said:
Absolutely.Many cars can't keep up with bikes, but don't assume that's all of them. I got a friendly nod the other day from a litre sports bike that struggled to pull any gap on me.
Pegscratch said:
toon10 said:
Absolutely.Many cars can't keep up with bikes, but don't assume that's all of them. I got a friendly nod the other day from a litre sports bike that struggled to pull any gap on me.
SAS Tom said:
To be fair, the bike was in completely the wrong gear. It would have probably still lost but that video doesn’t really say much.
Yeah, I appreciate the video doesn't really reflect anything and in most situations, any fast bike is going to beat most cars on the dual carriageway dash. It still made me giggle a bit though. Pegscratch said:
toon10 said:
Absolutely.Many cars can't keep up with bikes, but don't assume that's all of them. I got a friendly nod the other day from a litre sports bike that struggled to pull any gap on me.
So for balance I'm going to just assume you were driving your Koenigsegg Agera R, in which case I'm not really surprised by the outcome.
Japveesix said:
I hate when people make comments like this but give you no clue whatsoever what car they were driving so the comment becomes pointless.
So for balance I'm going to just assume you were driving your Koenigsegg Agera R, in which case I'm not really surprised by the outcome.
Why's it pointless? Many top end hot hatches (A45, RS3 etc) are perfectly capable of keeping up with 600cc sports bikes, and many top end super saloons are capable of keeping litre bikes for company.So for balance I'm going to just assume you were driving your Koenigsegg Agera R, in which case I'm not really surprised by the outcome.
You don't have to be driving an Unobtanium Hypercar to keep up with bikes now, and it's great to be able to enjoy that.
generally speaking most cars won't hold a candle to a well ridden sports bike especially on the DC, damp twisty B roads are another matter, bikes are very difficult to control on a typical British back road, add some road grime/damp patches/gravel on apexes etc and it all comes down to the rider if he's any good then the bike will take some beating if not it's easy to come a cropper. As an example me and a group of pals have regular Sunday morning blasts on a selection of 1000cc sports bike ranging from an aging Aprilia RSV 1000r to a couple of all singing all dancing BMW S1000RR s (HP4 versions no less) with a couple of GIXER 1000s and a newish blade thrown in for good measure, so all pretty capable bikes with equally experienced (mature) riders, we are all the wrong side of 50 so the maturity is a moot point we should know better really, anyway the son of one of our posse as just bought a BMW M4 ('65 plate IIRC) and he decided to join us on our Sunday run out. And I have to say that M4 is bloody fast only lacking down long ish straights when the bikes could get into their stride (instant ban and probably loss of liberty speeds) without having to brake for an up and coming corner but through the corners and on shorter straights the BM was pretty much a match for the bikes, and bare in mind the HP4s have around 200hp and weight 180kg so these this are among the fastest bikes on the planet, the biggest advantage the car as is under braking even with Brembo brakes, race pads and super sticky trackday rubber the bike as no chance compared to the cars big rotors and massive rubber foot print. Where the bikes became bucking animals over the humps and crests the car was planted and stable, mind you once on a clear DC the bikes (even the 17 yr old Aprilia) simply leave the car for dead, so while it's an interesting debate ultimately I think the bikes win but it closer then you'd think and I know from experience bloody hard work to ride a big powerful bike fast enough to stay in front.
budd said:
generally speaking most cars won't hold a candle to a well ridden sports bike especially on the DC, damp twisty B roads are another matter, bikes are very difficult to control on a typical British back road, add some road grime/damp patches/gravel on apexes etc and it all comes down to the rider if he's any good then the bike will take some beating if not it's easy to come a cropper. As an example me and a group of pals have regular Sunday morning blasts on a selection of 1000cc sports bike ranging from an aging Aprilia RSV 1000r to a couple of all singing all dancing BMW S1000RR s (HP4 versions no less) with a couple of GIXER 1000s and a newish blade thrown in for good measure, so all pretty capable bikes with equally experienced (mature) riders, we are all the wrong side of 50 so the maturity is a moot point we should know better really, anyway the son of one of our posse as just bought a BMW M4 ('65 plate IIRC) and he decided to join us on our Sunday run out. And I have to say that M4 is bloody fast only lacking down long ish straights when the bikes could get into their stride (instant ban and probably loss of liberty speeds) without having to brake for an up and coming corner but through the corners and on shorter straights the BM was pretty much a match for the bikes, and bare in mind the HP4s have around 200hp and weight 180kg so these this are among the fastest bikes on the planet, the biggest advantage the car as is under braking even with Brembo brakes, race pads and super sticky trackday rubber the bike as no chance compared to the cars big rotors and massive rubber foot print. Where the bikes became bucking animals over the humps and crests the car was planted and stable, mind you once on a clear DC the bikes (even the 17 yr old Aprilia) simply leave the car for dead, so while it's an interesting debate ultimately I think the bikes win but it closer then you'd think and I know from experience bloody hard work to ride a big powerful bike fast enough to stay in front.
I'd agree with this. My Quadrifoglio will beat a 600 Supersport bike even on a DC but not a 1000. Power and weight advantage is just too much. I used to have a 600 and had a short stint racing. On a normal road that's not just dead straight a super saloon would beat any bike, especially on twisty bits or under heavy braking.
budd said:
generally speaking most cars won't hold a candle to a well ridden sports bike especially on the DC, damp twisty B roads are another matter, bikes are very difficult to control on a typical British back road, add some road grime/damp patches/gravel on apexes etc and it all comes down to the rider if he's any good then the bike will take some beating if not it's easy to come a cropper. As an example me and a group of pals have regular Sunday morning blasts on a selection of 1000cc sports bike ranging from an aging Aprilia RSV 1000r to a couple of all singing all dancing BMW S1000RR s (HP4 versions no less) with a couple of GIXER 1000s and a newish blade thrown in for good measure, so all pretty capable bikes with equally experienced (mature) riders, we are all the wrong side of 50 so the maturity is a moot point we should know better really, anyway the son of one of our posse as just bought a BMW M4 ('65 plate IIRC) and he decided to join us on our Sunday run out. And I have to say that M4 is bloody fast only lacking down long ish straights when the bikes could get into their stride (instant ban and probably loss of liberty speeds) without having to brake for an up and coming corner but through the corners and on shorter straights the BM was pretty much a match for the bikes, and bare in mind the HP4s have around 200hp and weight 180kg so these this are among the fastest bikes on the planet, the biggest advantage the car as is under braking even with Brembo brakes, race pads and super sticky trackday rubber the bike as no chance compared to the cars big rotors and massive rubber foot print. Where the bikes became bucking animals over the humps and crests the car was planted and stable, mind you once on a clear DC the bikes (even the 17 yr old Aprilia) simply leave the car for dead, so while it's an interesting debate ultimately I think the bikes win but it closer then you'd think and I know from experience bloody hard work to ride a big powerful bike fast enough to stay in front.
And the KSI stats?budd said:
generally speaking most cars won't hold a candle to a well ridden sports bike especially on the DC, damp twisty B roads are another matter, bikes are very difficult to control on a typical British back road, add some road grime/damp patches/gravel on apexes etc and it all comes down to the rider if he's any good then the bike will take some beating if not it's easy to come a cropper. As an example me and a group of pals have regular Sunday morning blasts on a selection of 1000cc sports bike ranging from an aging Aprilia RSV 1000r to a couple of all singing all dancing BMW S1000RR s (HP4 versions no less) with a couple of GIXER 1000s and a newish blade thrown in for good measure, so all pretty capable bikes with equally experienced (mature) riders, we are all the wrong side of 50 so the maturity is a moot point we should know better really, anyway the son of one of our posse as just bought a BMW M4 ('65 plate IIRC) and he decided to join us on our Sunday run out. And I have to say that M4 is bloody fast only lacking down long ish straights when the bikes could get into their stride (instant ban and probably loss of liberty speeds) without having to brake for an up and coming corner but through the corners and on shorter straights the BM was pretty much a match for the bikes, and bare in mind the HP4s have around 200hp and weight 180kg so these this are among the fastest bikes on the planet, the biggest advantage the car as is under braking even with Brembo brakes, race pads and super sticky trackday rubber the bike as no chance compared to the cars big rotors and massive rubber foot print. Where the bikes became bucking animals over the humps and crests the car was planted and stable, mind you once on a clear DC the bikes (even the 17 yr old Aprilia) simply leave the car for dead, so while it's an interesting debate ultimately I think the bikes win but it closer then you'd think and I know from experience bloody hard work to ride a big powerful bike fast enough to stay in front.
I am a biker, have been all my life, I have a fairly quick car, its comparable to a modern 600cc sports bike in a straight line, I know because I have "followed a few and a few have followed me" but I know for a fact it wont live with a litre bike, the dual carriageway argument doesn't interest me, I know the outcome, but a fast sweeping A road or even an undulating B road is possibly a different story, i think cars have closed the gap for your average rider/driver, bikes have always been staggeringly quick, however cars with the clever electronics, i know bike electronics are very advanced but i think an average car driver can exploit the higher car limits easier, can cover the ground so fast it makes it so difficult for a bike to get past, the bike is faster, but to pull out, accelerate and pass the car then slow the bike down for the next corner is so difficult it seems to have changed. the dynamic slightly Harvey Mushman00 said:
I am a biker, have been all my life, I have a fairly quick car, its comparable to a modern 600cc sports bike in a straight line, I know because I have "followed a few and a few have followed me" but I know for a fact it wont live with a litre bike, the dual carriageway argument doesn't interest me, I know the outcome, but a fast sweeping A road or even an undulating B road is possibly a different story, i think cars have closed the gap for your average rider/driver, bikes have always been staggeringly quick, however cars with the clever electronics, i know bike electronics are very advanced but i think an average car driver can exploit the higher car limits easier, can cover the ground so fast it makes it so difficult for a bike to get past, the bike is faster, but to pull out, accelerate and pass the car then slow the bike down for the next corner is so difficult it seems to have changed. the dynamic slightly
very true while bike electronics have come a long way you still have to ride the thing and they are much more difficult to handle then modern cars, even mundane family hatches are very sophisticated and very capable, your super saloon or mid level sports coupe (like the M4) are in a different league. Pegscratch said:
Japveesix said:
I hate when people make comments like this but give you no clue whatsoever what car they were driving so the comment becomes pointless.
So for balance I'm going to just assume you were driving your Koenigsegg Agera R, in which case I'm not really surprised by the outcome.
Why's it pointless? Many top end hot hatches (A45, RS3 etc) are perfectly capable of keeping up with 600cc sports bikes, and many top end super saloons are capable of keeping litre bikes for company.So for balance I'm going to just assume you were driving your Koenigsegg Agera R, in which case I'm not really surprised by the outcome.
You don't have to be driving an Unobtanium Hypercar to keep up with bikes now, and it's great to be able to enjoy that.
It's pointless saying anything along the lines of "I regularly destroy bikes in my car" and then give no info on what that car is. It's useless information with no context, like saying "I'm very well paid considering my age" but giving no age, etc etc.
The Hypercar has nothing to do with it and was added for comedy effect only.
I think a few people have misunderstood my op. I was getting at how quick even a modern barge (Audi 3.0) is at rolling speed. I've been riding around 20 year now, when I first started out my little fzr400 would outrun most "fast" road cars but these days even a normal repmobile/ family hatch will gives some bikes a bit of a fright if they catch you in the wrong gear.
The gap has definitely closed on cars and bikes for everyday road use with modern electronics and easily tuneable turbo engines. That being said I've only ever been left by a naughty looking porsche 911 turbo at top end.
The gap has definitely closed on cars and bikes for everyday road use with modern electronics and easily tuneable turbo engines. That being said I've only ever been left by a naughty looking porsche 911 turbo at top end.
Back in my silly days, most bikers seemed to bottle out at 130mph and I remember another occasion, a biker had been tailgating me for ages with me cruising along at about 80mph on a nice A road , we then come to a DC that has an uphill curve on it, let him pass and then give it some,me passing him at 120mph with him bent right over on the inside, looking like he was just about to fall over!
Silly days- and I drive like Miss Daisy in comparison now but seemed fun back in the day!
Silly days- and I drive like Miss Daisy in comparison now but seemed fun back in the day!
spookly said:
Yeah, any reasonably fast and good handling car will stay with a bike on twisty bits.
Problem is that you don't know how good the biker is, and I try not to race them as I've seen a few novice bikers end up running out of skill when pushing it a bit.
I think on the typical UK "continue easy left, caution, tightens into sheep" country road, it's not unreasonable to expect a car to be able to keep up with a bike.Problem is that you don't know how good the biker is, and I try not to race them as I've seen a few novice bikers end up running out of skill when pushing it a bit.
Given the opportunity to stretch their legs, though, even a moderately quick bike is going to simply f
k off.InitialDave said:
spookly said:
Yeah, any reasonably fast and good handling car will stay with a bike on twisty bits.
Problem is that you don't know how good the biker is, and I try not to race them as I've seen a few novice bikers end up running out of skill when pushing it a bit.
I think on the typical UK "continue easy left, caution, tightens into sheep" country road, it's not unreasonable to expect a car to be able to keep up with a bike.Problem is that you don't know how good the biker is, and I try not to race them as I've seen a few novice bikers end up running out of skill when pushing it a bit.
Given the opportunity to stretch their legs, though, even a moderately quick bike is going to simply f
k off.If it's not a pothole / manhole cover / load of farmers s
t on the apex of a bend, it's gravel or dozy car drivers crossing the centreline keeping you on your toes on many of the bike roads around my way. This is why you can't give it anywhere near 100% on the roads on a bike. It's just not worth it to be a hero smarty156 said:
I'd agree with this. My Quadrifoglio will beat a 600 Supersport bike even on a DC but not a 1000. Power and weight advantage is just too much.
I used to have a 600 and had a short stint racing. On a normal road that's not just dead straight a super saloon would beat any bike, especially on twisty bits or under heavy braking.
No it won’t. A semi modern (2011) Zx6r will run an 11 second quarter quite happily, a Quadrifoglio from what I can find runs a 12 second quarter. The car can launch much harder and in a rolling start will have no chance of keeping up with the bike in a straight line. I used to have a 600 and had a short stint racing. On a normal road that's not just dead straight a super saloon would beat any bike, especially on twisty bits or under heavy braking.
If both vehicles had a 100kg driver the car would have about 335bhp/tonne and the 600 around 425bhp/tonne+
Just to clarify I’m on about on a DC as you said, on a twister road with a decent driver the car will be quicker but that’s not a surprise.
Edited by patchb on Monday 23 April 20:44
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