Cars taking on bikes (again)
Discussion
wormus said:
On a fairly straight road, anything less than a hyper car will not keep up with a litre super bike. If you think different then you are kidding yourselves.
Yup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfLqa4vlmFI&t=...Granted the bike is a bit pricey, but still a long long way short of the car prices.
phil4 said:
Yup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfLqa4vlmFI&t=...
Granted the bike is a bit pricey, but still a long long way short of the car prices.
Then again.....Granted the bike is a bit pricey, but still a long long way short of the car prices.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kHbgoT4Kj3c
wormus said:
Then again.....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kHbgoT4Kj3c
Then again? So it outdid the rather old McClaren (by 30mph), and the Veyron (by 14mph)... and was finally beaten by 4mph by a tuned and mod'd 1350bhp GTR.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kHbgoT4Kj3c
It pretty much supports the idea that for a big sports bike you'll need something pretty exotic.
Harvey Mushman00 said:
budd said:
generally speaking most cars won't hold a candle to a well ridden sports bike especially on the DC, damp twisty B roads are another matter, bikes are very difficult to control on a typical British back road, add some road grime/damp patches/gravel on apexes etc and it all comes down to the rider if he's any good then the bike will take some beating if not it's easy to come a cropper. As an example me and a group of pals have regular Sunday morning blasts on a selection of 1000cc sports bike ranging from an aging Aprilia RSV 1000r to a couple of all singing all dancing BMW S1000RR s (HP4 versions no less) with a couple of GIXER 1000s and a newish blade thrown in for good measure, so all pretty capable bikes with equally experienced (mature) riders, we are all the wrong side of 50 so the maturity is a moot point we should know better really, anyway the son of one of our posse as just bought a BMW M4 ('65 plate IIRC) and he decided to join us on our Sunday run out. And I have to say that M4 is bloody fast only lacking down long ish straights when the bikes could get into their stride (instant ban and probably loss of liberty speeds) without having to brake for an up and coming corner but through the corners and on shorter straights the BM was pretty much a match for the bikes, and bare in mind the HP4s have around 200hp and weight 180kg so these this are among the fastest bikes on the planet, the biggest advantage the car as is under braking even with Brembo brakes, race pads and super sticky trackday rubber the bike as no chance compared to the cars big rotors and massive rubber foot print. Where the bikes became bucking animals over the humps and crests the car was planted and stable, mind you once on a clear DC the bikes (even the 17 yr old Aprilia) simply leave the car for dead, so while it's an interesting debate ultimately I think the bikes win but it closer then you'd think and I know from experience bloody hard work to ride a big powerful bike fast enough to stay in front.
I am a biker, have been all my life, I have a fairly quick car, its comparable to a modern 600cc sports bike in a straight line, I know because I have "followed a few and a few have followed me" but I know for a fact it wont live with a litre bike, the dual carriageway argument doesn't interest me, I know the outcome, but a fast sweeping A road or even an undulating B road is possibly a different story, i think cars have closed the gap for your average rider/driver, bikes have always been staggeringly quick, however cars with the clever electronics, i know bike electronics are very advanced but i think an average car driver can exploit the higher car limits easier, can cover the ground so fast it makes it so difficult for a bike to get past, the bike is faster, but to pull out, accelerate and pass the car then slow the bike down for the next corner is so difficult it seems to have changed. the dynamic slightly who was having more fun though?
And which required the greater skill?
advances in chassis and suspension are good but the electronics are reducing the skill and control required.
I fail to see what all the fuss is about.
Bikes are limited in their practicality and appeal as they are simply single person vehicles with s high power to weight ratio and no windscreen.
Their peers are other bikes and not performance cars as cars are designed to carry more people and cannot speed through narrow gaps, like motorbikes can.
It’s a classic apples and pears comparison.
Bikes are limited in their practicality and appeal as they are simply single person vehicles with s high power to weight ratio and no windscreen.
Their peers are other bikes and not performance cars as cars are designed to carry more people and cannot speed through narrow gaps, like motorbikes can.
It’s a classic apples and pears comparison.
wormus said:
One thing I do know is a leased shopping trolley like the Golf R or A45 AMG has average performance at best, same with the M4.
Of course, leased cars are always slower.Wondered how long it would be before someone raised the leased v bought subject lol!
On the intetesting cars v bikes subject it is often the case more bikers (especially weekenders) run out of talent/road/balls well before most car drivers in a given situation. Without being stereotypical of course.
I find this list below to be a good benchmark of a cars true performance and rapidity. In French unfortunately but the numbers are in plain English.
Cars such as the Aventador and 488 and some Mclarens are often a joke to use on a typical UK B road primarily down to their width restricting progress. The other aspect is these cars ott electronic interventions flattering the driver, restricting fun and diluting the overall driving experience.
Figures confirm the relatively slow Golf R, Merc, average placed lardy M4, reasonable Caterham and well placed focused 911 GTs Radicals and Ariel.
I have three cars - all of them including the classic range rover are capable of speeds beyond safety around a corner (the RR because it would fall over!)
So, the performance of the cars becomes irrelevant because the road limits speed more than the car...
I find that bikers fall into one of two categories, regardless of the bike they are riding:
- idiots for whom speed and 'winning' is the priority (e.g. the biker who overtook me while I was overtaking a car - and then tried to kill himself 3 times in the next 10 miles!) - wouldn't 'race' them as they will die...
- sensible bikers who want to live more than 24 hours, and therefore there is no 'racing' as they are sensible
so the concept of 'racing' a bike on the roads makes no sense at all - twisty bits are fun driving, and the straights in-between (where virtually any bike would kill even the M5 in a straight line) are not the fun bit - and anyway 'winning' on a straight is simply whatever vehicle you have gone out and bought - nothing to do with the rider / driver... if that is fun for someone then drag racing is the way forward
where it is fun being out with bikes is when you have that connection, when you each recognise and respect the other - give each other space and both have fun overtaking / driving the corners / etc. More often in the Z3 as it is open top and that helps connect - but can be in any car...
So, the performance of the cars becomes irrelevant because the road limits speed more than the car...
I find that bikers fall into one of two categories, regardless of the bike they are riding:
- idiots for whom speed and 'winning' is the priority (e.g. the biker who overtook me while I was overtaking a car - and then tried to kill himself 3 times in the next 10 miles!) - wouldn't 'race' them as they will die...
- sensible bikers who want to live more than 24 hours, and therefore there is no 'racing' as they are sensible
so the concept of 'racing' a bike on the roads makes no sense at all - twisty bits are fun driving, and the straights in-between (where virtually any bike would kill even the M5 in a straight line) are not the fun bit - and anyway 'winning' on a straight is simply whatever vehicle you have gone out and bought - nothing to do with the rider / driver... if that is fun for someone then drag racing is the way forward
where it is fun being out with bikes is when you have that connection, when you each recognise and respect the other - give each other space and both have fun overtaking / driving the corners / etc. More often in the Z3 as it is open top and that helps connect - but can be in any car...
I love bikes but they are essentially useless for anything other than going fast and delivering Pizza, they accelerate very quickly due to low weight vs the power they have, they are low weight because you cant carry much, you get wet if it rains and you have to dress up in leather and wear a massive hat in a vain attempt at protecting yourself in case you fall off it, as, you see it only has two wheels so it cant stand up on its own, and bikers always fall off, not always their fault but all the ones I know have had at least one off, one got knocked off and his boot came off, he looked down and realise his foot was still in it which, it has to be said, put me off a bit.
So, most bikes are tucked up in the garage on a trickle charger most of the year, come a bank holiday, then they all appear going for a ride out, mixing it with all the BH traffic, they then arrive, in their millions at one of their spawning grounds like Matlock, they park up and strut round, get a Bacon Butty, stand round and talk about bikes, then get back on and ride back, which is great but generally they are cock all use for anything else, most of the year unless you are a lunatic who likes getting wet and dicing with death and getting mangled every day.
As transport, they work for a few hardy souls, but lets have it right, most put on less than a thousand miles a year, all the bikers I know that commuted on them admit defeat and get a car, realistically most sports bikes at least are more akin to a piece of sports equipment than daily transport, owning one more lifestyle choice than a necessity in most cases. Always find it amusing how many bikers feel the need to let you know they are one when its tucked up for 8 months with merchandise or an Email Address like NinjaDave750@hotmail.com. They will tell you it will out accelerate a Lamborghini, but which would they rather have, Lambo or a ten year old Hayabusa ?
Like I said, love bikes and know loads of bikers but come on, very, very, terrifyingly fast, but largely not much use for most people, most of the time.
They always if you are in anything remotely interesting seem to want to point out how slow your car is, had an R6 rider determined to show how slow my 350Z was, i was kind of aware of its depleted uranium construction and moderately powerful NA V6 engine, he or shee nearly got greased on a roundabout as they were too busy concentrating on me, yes its faster, well done but I am having fun anyway, now p
s off as I dont want you on my conscience.
So, most bikes are tucked up in the garage on a trickle charger most of the year, come a bank holiday, then they all appear going for a ride out, mixing it with all the BH traffic, they then arrive, in their millions at one of their spawning grounds like Matlock, they park up and strut round, get a Bacon Butty, stand round and talk about bikes, then get back on and ride back, which is great but generally they are cock all use for anything else, most of the year unless you are a lunatic who likes getting wet and dicing with death and getting mangled every day.
As transport, they work for a few hardy souls, but lets have it right, most put on less than a thousand miles a year, all the bikers I know that commuted on them admit defeat and get a car, realistically most sports bikes at least are more akin to a piece of sports equipment than daily transport, owning one more lifestyle choice than a necessity in most cases. Always find it amusing how many bikers feel the need to let you know they are one when its tucked up for 8 months with merchandise or an Email Address like NinjaDave750@hotmail.com. They will tell you it will out accelerate a Lamborghini, but which would they rather have, Lambo or a ten year old Hayabusa ?
Like I said, love bikes and know loads of bikers but come on, very, very, terrifyingly fast, but largely not much use for most people, most of the time.
They always if you are in anything remotely interesting seem to want to point out how slow your car is, had an R6 rider determined to show how slow my 350Z was, i was kind of aware of its depleted uranium construction and moderately powerful NA V6 engine, he or shee nearly got greased on a roundabout as they were too busy concentrating on me, yes its faster, well done but I am having fun anyway, now p
s off as I dont want you on my conscience.blade7 said:
J4CKO said:
I love bikes
Like I said, love bikes and know loads of bikers
Like I said, love bikes and know loads of bikers
Not sure what is so hard to comprehend, despite all the other stuff I said, which we all know is true, but a lot of the best things in life are a bit pointless in many ways.
As a car & bike owner I'm always amazed by this discussion when it pops up every few months.
Surely it's pretty much always down to the driver & rider. When you read comments about pretty low powered cars destroying a litre bike and 600 bikes leaving a GT3 for dead then you know it's got nothing to do with the vehicle it's to do with the pilot.
To those people who've never ridden a bike I can say that there's nothing quite like the way a bike will accelerate, the down side of this is you can find yourself approaching corners at outrageous speeds & this tends to be where people (including myself over the years) can get caught out.
Cars can scrub off speed so much better and remain so much more stable in those kind of situations so in my experience as a reasonable driver & rider I always find myself more at ease in the car going quick. There's just too much to loose on the road on the bike.
Surely it's pretty much always down to the driver & rider. When you read comments about pretty low powered cars destroying a litre bike and 600 bikes leaving a GT3 for dead then you know it's got nothing to do with the vehicle it's to do with the pilot.
To those people who've never ridden a bike I can say that there's nothing quite like the way a bike will accelerate, the down side of this is you can find yourself approaching corners at outrageous speeds & this tends to be where people (including myself over the years) can get caught out.
Cars can scrub off speed so much better and remain so much more stable in those kind of situations so in my experience as a reasonable driver & rider I always find myself more at ease in the car going quick. There's just too much to loose on the road on the bike.
Jammez said:
As a car & bike owner I'm always amazed by this discussion when it pops up every few months.
Surely it's pretty much always down to the driver & rider. When you read comments about pretty low powered cars destroying a litre bike and 600 bikes leaving a GT3 for dead then you know it's got nothing to do with the vehicle it's to do with the pilot.
To those people who've never ridden a bike I can say that there's nothing quite like the way a bike will accelerate, the down side of this is you can find yourself approaching corners at outrageous speeds & this tends to be where people (including myself over the years) can get caught out.
Cars can scrub off speed so much better and remain so much more stable in those kind of situations so in my experience as a reasonable driver & rider I always find myself more at ease in the car going quick. There's just too much to loose on the road on the bike.
+1Surely it's pretty much always down to the driver & rider. When you read comments about pretty low powered cars destroying a litre bike and 600 bikes leaving a GT3 for dead then you know it's got nothing to do with the vehicle it's to do with the pilot.
To those people who've never ridden a bike I can say that there's nothing quite like the way a bike will accelerate, the down side of this is you can find yourself approaching corners at outrageous speeds & this tends to be where people (including myself over the years) can get caught out.
Cars can scrub off speed so much better and remain so much more stable in those kind of situations so in my experience as a reasonable driver & rider I always find myself more at ease in the car going quick. There's just too much to loose on the road on the bike.
I'll participate in traffic like GP's if I'm in the mood just for the lolz - but I'll always back off when corners are involved. There's no way I'm getting out of my comfort zone with a ton of two of car on my tail.
They will come on forums saying 'yeah there was this bloke on a Blackbird...he had me on the straight but I caught up on the bends'. Yep - but that's only because I'm being sensible and / or run out of talent and/or lost my nerve etc etc.
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