RE: PH Origins: Electronic parking brakes

RE: PH Origins: Electronic parking brakes

Author
Discussion

Gad-Westy

14,520 posts

212 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
Ares said:
I never use the parking brake except when parking? Foot brake prevents creep in traffic?
Did/do the same when in a manual.

The only downside I have ever come across is the slightly less convenience when in a strange manual with a EPB on a steep hill - more difficult to use it to get the bite point.
Are we talking about the same thing? Auto park brake on the Leon comes on when car is stationary with a certain pressure on the brake pedal. It's great for anything but stop start traffic where I find that the brake pressure required to prevent creep is often more than the min threshold to engage EPB automatically. So the EPB comes on and then you get that slight jerk when it comes off again. Even worse if the stop start has also engaged. In the manual car, you can just apply a very light brake pressure without having to worry about the car creeping forward. In reality in the auto, if I'm in nose to tail stuff for a while I'll just turn the auto EPB off and try to remember to re-engage it once moving again.

Dale487

1,334 posts

122 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
Andy20vt said:
Technology for technology's sake!
It strikes me as designer not engineer driven - makes the interior cleaner looking. And then throws up problems that weren't even with a normal handbrake, the need for a hill start function - VAG which on some cars they charge extra for (c£60) even though the EPB is standard.

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
Dale487 said:
Andy20vt said:
Technology for technology's sake!
It strikes me as designer not engineer driven - makes the interior cleaner looking. And then throws up problems that weren't even with a normal handbrake, the need for a hill start function - VAG which on some cars they charge extra for (c£60) even though the EPB is standard.
It's not technology for technology sake, it's technology for driver benefit, just as most other technological advancements.

Still maintain it solves more problems that it causes - and hill start functionality was around before EPB.

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
Gad-Westy said:
Ares said:
I never use the parking brake except when parking? Foot brake prevents creep in traffic?
Did/do the same when in a manual.

The only downside I have ever come across is the slightly less convenience when in a strange manual with a EPB on a steep hill - more difficult to use it to get the bite point.
Are we talking about the same thing? Auto park brake on the Leon comes on when car is stationary with a certain pressure on the brake pedal. It's great for anything but stop start traffic where I find that the brake pressure required to prevent creep is often more than the min threshold to engage EPB automatically. So the EPB comes on and then you get that slight jerk when it comes off again. Even worse if the stop start has also engaged. In the manual car, you can just apply a very light brake pressure without having to worry about the car creeping forward. In reality in the auto, if I'm in nose to tail stuff for a while I'll just turn the auto EPB off and try to remember to re-engage it once moving again.
Yes - I never use the auto EPB because I only use the EPB when parking. Call it a Ronseal thing wink

Gad-Westy

14,520 posts

212 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
Ares said:
Gad-Westy said:
Ares said:
I never use the parking brake except when parking? Foot brake prevents creep in traffic?
Did/do the same when in a manual.

The only downside I have ever come across is the slightly less convenience when in a strange manual with a EPB on a steep hill - more difficult to use it to get the bite point.
Are we talking about the same thing? Auto park brake on the Leon comes on when car is stationary with a certain pressure on the brake pedal. It's great for anything but stop start traffic where I find that the brake pressure required to prevent creep is often more than the min threshold to engage EPB automatically. So the EPB comes on and then you get that slight jerk when it comes off again. Even worse if the stop start has also engaged. In the manual car, you can just apply a very light brake pressure without having to worry about the car creeping forward. In reality in the auto, if I'm in nose to tail stuff for a while I'll just turn the auto EPB off and try to remember to re-engage it once moving again.
Yes - I never use the auto EPB because I only use the EPB when parking. Call it a Ronseal thing wink
So I assume you don't use auto EPB at all? I must admit I like the auto function 90% of the time. It's very lazy but it does work well.


Edited by Gad-Westy on Monday 23 April 15:35

PistonBroker

2,406 posts

225 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
I remember the first car I saw one on was about a decade ago when a work colleague at the time got an A4. I remember thinking it was a horrible idea.

Fast forward to 2015 when I took delivery of a Tiguan and within weeks I was convinced that this was now the only way!

Agreed about the lack of commonality though - I'll concede I haven't got round to reading the manual, but the Tig's replacement, a Disco Sport, doesn't appear to have auto-hold. I'd say that was my favourite aspect. Though that also caused an issue when I jumped into a Golf courtesy car when the Tig was in for warranty work and almost rolled off the forecourt in traffic - why switch auto-hold off?!

Mr Peel

478 posts

121 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
HardMiles said:
Good article, but I keep seeing the same sentence in all of them; “being used in myriad models” for example.

Either my understanding of the English language is wrong, but that should read; “being used in a myriad of models”, am I correct?

Please help as it’s now bothering me!
The article is correct. It's "myriad xxx" not "a myriad of".

culpz

4,881 posts

111 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
Harris_I said:
culpz said:
Unless you're the kind of person who likes doing cheeky handbrake turns everywhere, i'm not sure why you'd miss it.
Because I use the "Balboni method" of reverse parking (leaning out of the driver's door looking at the curb alongside and posts behind, especially in cars with poor visibility). EPBs usually slam on the brakes the moment the driver's door is opened. Not a fan.
Sounds more like your issue that, not the car's wink

Ares

11,000 posts

119 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
Gad-Westy said:
Ares said:
Gad-Westy said:
Ares said:
I never use the parking brake except when parking? Foot brake prevents creep in traffic?
Did/do the same when in a manual.

The only downside I have ever come across is the slightly less convenience when in a strange manual with a EPB on a steep hill - more difficult to use it to get the bite point.
Are we talking about the same thing? Auto park brake on the Leon comes on when car is stationary with a certain pressure on the brake pedal. It's great for anything but stop start traffic where I find that the brake pressure required to prevent creep is often more than the min threshold to engage EPB automatically. So the EPB comes on and then you get that slight jerk when it comes off again. Even worse if the stop start has also engaged. In the manual car, you can just apply a very light brake pressure without having to worry about the car creeping forward. In reality in the auto, if I'm in nose to tail stuff for a while I'll just turn the auto EPB off and try to remember to re-engage it once moving again.
Yes - I never use the auto EPB because I only use the EPB when parking. Call it a Ronseal thing wink
So I assume you don't use auto EPB at all? I must admit I like the auto function 90% of the time. It's very lazy but it does work well.


Edited by Gad-Westy on Monday 23 April 15:35
Never have. Just no need IMO, especially with an autobox and stop/start.

Gad-Westy

14,520 posts

212 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
Ares said:
Gad-Westy said:
Ares said:
Gad-Westy said:
Ares said:
I never use the parking brake except when parking? Foot brake prevents creep in traffic?
Did/do the same when in a manual.

The only downside I have ever come across is the slightly less convenience when in a strange manual with a EPB on a steep hill - more difficult to use it to get the bite point.
Are we talking about the same thing? Auto park brake on the Leon comes on when car is stationary with a certain pressure on the brake pedal. It's great for anything but stop start traffic where I find that the brake pressure required to prevent creep is often more than the min threshold to engage EPB automatically. So the EPB comes on and then you get that slight jerk when it comes off again. Even worse if the stop start has also engaged. In the manual car, you can just apply a very light brake pressure without having to worry about the car creeping forward. In reality in the auto, if I'm in nose to tail stuff for a while I'll just turn the auto EPB off and try to remember to re-engage it once moving again.
Yes - I never use the auto EPB because I only use the EPB when parking. Call it a Ronseal thing wink
So I assume you don't use auto EPB at all? I must admit I like the auto function 90% of the time. It's very lazy but it does work well.


Edited by Gad-Westy on Monday 23 April 15:35
Never have. Just no need IMO, especially with an autobox and stop/start.
Yes, it's definitely not a 'need' thing though I must admit I've really warmed to it despite initial skepticism. I think if I spent more time doing low speed maneuvering I might find it a pain though. Just realised I've been using incorrect terminology, EPB is different to auto hold. As in auto hold is using the braking system not the 'handbrake' system. From what I read, DSG cars (mine) don't show brake lights on auto hold where as manual cars (my wife's) do. Might need to check that.

VxDuncan

2,850 posts

233 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
Ares said:
Dale487 said:
Andy20vt said:
Technology for technology's sake!
It strikes me as designer not engineer driven - makes the interior cleaner looking. And then throws up problems that weren't even with a normal handbrake, the need for a hill start function - VAG which on some cars they charge extra for (c£60) even though the EPB is standard.
It's not technology for technology sake, it's technology for driver benefit, just as most other technological advancements.

Still maintain it solves more problems that it causes - and hill start functionality was around before EPB.
The biggest reason they are fitted is that cars are blinking heavy these days - to meet the ECE13h regs you really an ever increasingly long handbrake lever to meet the maximum apply force requirement. Notice that they came in just as family cars started to get really heavy.

VM's also like them as they are self adjusting, so don't need the maintenance that a handbrake needs. This helps the sell to the fleet market.

Gad-Westy

14,520 posts

212 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
VxDuncan said:
Ares said:
Dale487 said:
Andy20vt said:
Technology for technology's sake!
It strikes me as designer not engineer driven - makes the interior cleaner looking. And then throws up problems that weren't even with a normal handbrake, the need for a hill start function - VAG which on some cars they charge extra for (c£60) even though the EPB is standard.
It's not technology for technology sake, it's technology for driver benefit, just as most other technological advancements.

Still maintain it solves more problems that it causes - and hill start functionality was around before EPB.
The biggest reason they are fitted is that cars are blinking heavy these days - to meet the ECE13h regs you really an ever increasingly long handbrake lever to meet the maximum apply force requirement. Notice that they came in just as family cars started to get really heavy.

VM's also like them as they are self adjusting, so don't need the maintenance that a handbrake needs. This helps the sell to the fleet market.
I would also assume that it's cheaper overall.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
Nice of PH to use pictures of the E65 7 series when the previous model (E38) did also have a electronic parking brake.

Do any journalists do any research anymore? hehe

Sandpit Steve

9,885 posts

73 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
PistonBroker said:
I remember the first car I saw one on was about a decade ago when a work colleague at the time got an A4. I remember thinking it was a horrible idea.

Fast forward to 2015 when I took delivery of a Tiguan and within weeks I was convinced that this was now the only way!

Agreed about the lack of commonality though - I'll concede I haven't got round to reading the manual, but the Tig's replacement, a Disco Sport, doesn't appear to have auto-hold. I'd say that was my favourite aspect. Though that also caused an issue when I jumped into a Golf courtesy car when the Tig was in for warranty work and almost rolled off the forecourt in traffic - why switch auto-hold off?!
The lack of commonality is the killer with these systems, especially for people like me who end up driving a different car every week. I really don’t want to read the often non-existent manual in a rental car in an airport car park somewhere just to work out how to drive the thing away.

There have been a few near misses in recent years with these electric things not working as expected, for decades previous all cars were exactly the same apart from some funny light switches and ‘backwards’ indicator stalks.

Lewis Kingston

240 posts

76 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
BAM225 said:
Nice of PH to use pictures of the E65 7 series when the previous model (E38) did also have a electronic parking brake.

Do any journalists do any research anymore? hehe
Did it? My apologies if so. Which variants? I was only aware of it having a foot-operated parking brake arrangement – as no controllers or components are seemingly listed anywhere. Even BMW lists the E65's set-up as 'the first of its type in a production automobile'.

Saying that, Lancia says the same in its Thesis press releases. Presumably unwilling to bend to the fact they'd been beaten to the punch. Better system, mind, but still... biggrin

helix402

7,832 posts

181 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
E38 had a foot on and hand off operated parking brake. Foot on, hand off. No electrickery involved.They did break quite a lot.

Afraid I’m not a fan of EPBs. They work fine on autos (eg you don’t need to use them). On VW manuals they make me sad. The only manual cars I’ve used them have been VWs. They made a hill start an unpleasant task.

Colonel D

628 posts

71 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
I prefer a manual handbrake after my near miss with an electronic one. Working in a BMW dealership, had to get a customers new car (early January so very busy) moved a 530 d out of the way to get the car I needed, was rushing so clicked the button while the car was coming to a stop, got out and left it running, walking to the other car I seen something moving in the corner of my eye. Turned around to see the brand new 530 rolling towards a rusty Passat that was traded in, ran after it, grabbed by the pillar which didn`t do much and had to try jump in and stop it and that`s not easy. I still don`t know how it didn`t crash into the front of the Passat, and for the rest of the day every manual car was turned off and left in gear so it wouldn`t happen again. Still haven`t told anyone in work about it laugh

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
The system on my cars: pull lever up,handbrake on- push lever down, handbrake off. Simple.

It doesn't need 'improving'. I won't be buying a car with the electric/electronic version.

HardMiles

313 posts

85 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
Mr Peel said:
HardMiles said:
Good article, but I keep seeing the same sentence in all of them; “being used in myriad models” for example.

Either my understanding of the English language is wrong, but that should read; “being used in a myriad of models”, am I correct?

Please help as it’s now bothering me!
The article is correct. It's "myriad xxx" not "a myriad of".
Cheers, although it does just sound wrong, I guess it is right.

john2443

6,322 posts

210 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
Rovinghawk said:
The system on my cars: pull lever up,handbrake on- push lever down, handbrake off. Simple.

It doesn't need 'improving'. I won't be buying a car with the electric/electronic version.
That's what I think, but I suspect the time will come where no new cars have a real handbrake, so the only way to have a proper one will be to keep an old car.