New Car from Dealer. Found it's Stolen/Recovered, what next?

New Car from Dealer. Found it's Stolen/Recovered, what next?

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Davros81

Original Poster:

18 posts

71 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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Hi guys, hopefully you can give me some opinions/advice.

I've just bought a new car from a local dealer for £10,500. All checked out HPI clear and the car is lovely all round, problem free and I love it.

As you do being a car nut, I wanted to find the previous owner to ask if he had any issues and so on, it's a 2015 car so hasn't done much but always nice to know a bit about it.

On we go and I find the chap on Facebook. I've not befriended him as scrolling down his timeline I see a post shared multiple times that his car was stolen in August 2017! It was recovered 5 weeks later and he said that there could be unconfirmed damage and so he wouldn't be getting the car back.

Now when I viewed the car, as I say, it checked out fine, looked excellent, really nice little dealership (on first view) - nicely presented unit, carpeted, numerous prestige cars (around 30) and seemingly good, non-pushy sales man in his 60's who looked after me.

One of the first things he mentioned which I didn't pick up on (possibly naive, not looking for a flame war) was the car has had one owner but he lost his V5 so a new one was presented however DVLA had put him down as a second owner. I looked at the V5 and both current and previous owners were the same person at the same address. I considered it a DVLA oversight and ran the usual HPI checks. In fact I have now ran 2 on the car, from different providers.

Another thing I noticed when I came to tax it was the car had not been taxed since 27th August 2017. This co-incides with the date the chap put on Facebook of when the car was stolen.

Obviously as I say the car is "HPI clear", however would you agree the dealer knew more of it's history than he was letting on? Did he mention the V5 very early on to gauge a reaction from me? To see if it scared me off? I called DVLA this morning to query my thoughts, see if a marker was present and they were not particularly helpful. I asked if it is likely that a lost V5 would then see an additional owner added to the cars history and didn't get far, the rep said to assume the car was sold to a trader then re-purchased... unlikely to me.

The car was a good value deal all in all looking at the current marketplace. I asked if the owner PX'd with him and he said no, he just bought it in to sell...

So now I have a car which strictly speaking is perfect, problem free, HPI clear but I am very dubious that the dealer knew more than he cared to divulge to me.

I am away with work until Saturday, where I will be visiting the dealer to gauge a reaction when I query what history he knows about this car.

I am happy to keep it, but obviously I feel misled... as I see it I would like to persue one of two options.

1) keep the car with perhaps some financial refund.
2) reject the car based on new found info and request a full refund and return the car.

Idea 1) is most favourable to me.

Do you think I am right to go in and ask for some money back based on my findings? Or am I better rid of this car "just in case"?

Thanks in advance,

Dave

Tyre Smoke

23,018 posts

260 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
Why do you feel the need for compensation for a car that was sold to you as described, has no history on HPI and simply because the oracle of all that is factual Facebook, some bloke has posted his car was stolen.

You don't know ...

a) it was this car
b) it was actually stolen
c) the dealer knew about all this heresay

So you confront the dealer and he denies any knowledge (as he will) of this bloke on social media and his car theft. What are you going to do then?

FFS man up. You're happy with the car and there's nothing wrong with it.

Torquey

1,888 posts

227 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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The dealer probably doesn't know and doesn't need to know about it being stolen recovered. And if you ask him I'm sure he's going to say he doesn't know.

Page 5 and 6 of this thread are similar: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Davie_GLA

6,521 posts

198 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
Tyre Smoke said:
Why do you feel the need for compensation for a car that was sold to you as described, has no history on HPI and simply because the oracle of all that is factual Facebook, some bloke has posted his car was stolen.

You don't know ...

a) it was this car
b) it was actually stolen
c) the dealer knew about all this heresay

So you confront the dealer and he denies any knowledge (as he will) of this bloke on social media and his car theft. What are you going to do then?

FFS man up. You're happy with the car and there's nothing wrong with it.
d) It was the car that he replaced this one with

stumpage

2,099 posts

225 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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Guy has a car he can't afford to run anymore. Doesn't want to post on Facebook that he is in financial bother but wants to stop questions about why he got rid of car.

Says it was stolen, but quickly recovered.

Takes it to a dealer to offload it quick at a low price as he needs to pay some debts before the baliffs turn up and hasn't got the time to sell privately in order to get the max amount of cash for his car.

(Just one version of possible events)

lost in espace

6,136 posts

206 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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Is it recorded stolen anywhere, or was it only through facebook that you know?

Truckosaurus

11,183 posts

283 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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Claim on the HPI insurance.

Davros81

Original Poster:

18 posts

71 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
I've ran a couple of HPI checks and nothing comes up against the car.

I am more than confident this is the identical car in question which was "stolen", lost for 5 weeks, then found.

Odd about the V5 though, no?

Not looking for any kind of flame war what so ever, just wanted to explore my options.

Would you have bought it Tyre Smoke or indeed be happy about it's history following the completed sale and further research? That's all I am saying.

You are correct, I do like the car, but it's really not nice finding out such history as that. I.e. was it badly abused? Has it had new locks etc etc, who actually knows. I know they can repair and give back to the owner if the value of repairs doesn't warrant it to be categorized.

Thanks all.

Gad-Westy

14,520 posts

212 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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Unless a car suffers a total loss where insurance pay out for its full value (for any reason) it won't show up on HPI or any other check. What this means in reality is that whenever you buy a car, there may be hidden secrets. So you have to buy on condition and if you're happy with the car as it stands today, I see no reason for you to be concerned. The car is no different now than it was before you started digging up the history.

Odd about the V5 names though. Not sure why that would happen.

Tyre Smoke

23,018 posts

260 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
If I had done the HPI as you have, and was happy with the car, yes, I'd have bought it.

I wouldn't take anything as 'fact' on Facebook. It's largely the home of attention wes. You could have bought the car and seen nothing on social media. You'd be as happy as a pig in the brown stuff now.

Just let it go and stop looking to blame someone for something that you have absolutely no control over.

Any car could have a hidden history, this is by no means conclusive proof of a theft. And what if it has been stolen and recovered? It's not damaged - or the damage has been well rectified and it's not recorded on HPI.

Whoever suggested claiming from HPI's insurance is being a bit hopeful. A post on Facebook is not proof of theft. rofl

GrandAndrew

871 posts

149 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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Where did the dealer buy the car from?

If it's not showing as stolen/recovered on any register then I don't see how he'd have checked it.

The two owners thing is a bit strange and not one I've encountered before. He could have given it in to a dealer for SOR who accidentally yellow slipped it and then put it back into his name. Again, what the dealer has said could be correct, it's not standard practice from the DVLA but they are prone to mistakes.

If the car is good though and as you say, you've paid a good price I don't see why you should be overly concerned. If you knew what you know now would it stop you from buying it?

It's entirely possible that whoever stole it drove it far more cautiously than the previous owner did!

Tyre Smoke

23,018 posts

260 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
The V5 is a bit odd though. Perhaps write to DVLA and ask them to remove one of the owners? Or perhaps dad and son both have the same name and live at the same address and dad sold his car to his son?

Davros81

Original Poster:

18 posts

71 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
It is odd ref the V5, it's also odd it showed un-taxed from 27th August too.

His dad has a different first name, he and his mum also shared their sons post at the time.

The dealer claims he bought it from the original owner. His story about the V5 was it was lost, so a new one was requested and a second owner with identical details was added...

My girlfriend manages a post office and was adamant the DVLA wouldn't add the owner as a duplicate/second owner and would charge to re-issue a new V5 for all intents and purposes identical to the original. The DVLA were not forthcoming with info when I called and queried earlier.

Thanks smile

Sheepshanks

32,528 posts

118 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
Gad-Westy said:
Odd about the V5 names though. Not sure why that would happen.
I wondered if it might have been written off and then the guy bought it back.

Or perhaps it was missing for a while?? No idea what happens then, can it be declared "lost" and then re-registered?

But surely either would show up in HPI.

nikaiyo2

4,671 posts

194 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
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Could the original owner have had third party only insurance? So not able to make a claim so therefore nothing would be recorded?

J4CKO

41,284 posts

199 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
You have said you love the car, am guessing its in good condition and works perfectly ?

You have just gone digging and found something that doesn't really matter, its a car, an inanimate object, its not like it knows and has come with baggage about the events that will need therapy, just put it down to experience and continue to enjoy the car.

I know it will take the edge off but try not to let it, I had a car years ago that we found out had been in quite a hard front smack due to a kink in the inner wheel arch, had been pulled out and put back straight, new parts fitted and painted, was gutted at first but the car looked fine, drove fine and it made no odds, I ran it for a couple of years, sold it to a colleague of my dads, he had good service, then it got scrapped.

My cousin bought a 205 diesel years ago, apparently it had been a van at some point in its life he discovered, didnt stop him racking up 200k, he then bough a new Golf diesel that had front damage, got it repaired, ran it for 150k.

Its easy to get too preious about cars, appreciate its not nice being lied to or taken advantage of but most second hand cars will have had some history.


anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
The law is actually on your side. It is a criminal offence for a dealer to sell a car withholding iformation that would be pertinent in any car buyers buying decision.

I would say selling a stolen car and not informing you is one. The law also clear you don't have to ask the actual question. Now if they actually knew might be an issue.

Davros81

Original Poster:

18 posts

71 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
Not gonna lie, had a few interesting second hand cars but this is the first one I've ever spent so much on, perhaps why I feel I am "owed" something maybe. Ah well.

Not too sure insurance would allow only third party cover on a brand new car in response to someone else above (well, he had it from new at least).

Another thing I have found is the dealer is not VAT registered nor on Companies House, I need to take another look at my invoice tonight after work just in case. I have found they had a previous property business which was struck off after a couple of years being active.

The seller says he had a forecourt locally for quite a number of years but moved to their current unit last year, being under cover from the elements...

Davros81

Original Poster:

18 posts

71 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
Thesprucegoose said:
The law is actually on your side. It is a criminal offence for a dealer to sell a car withholding iformation that would be pertinent in any car buyers buying decision.

I would say selling a stolen car and not informing you is one. The law also clear you don't have to ask the actual question. Now if they actually knew might be an issue.
This is very interesting, thank you. Would you know of a source where I can see this in black and white to add to my case should I decide I have one? Cheers smile

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 23rd April 2018
quotequote all
Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation...


''The Regulations also offer protection against traders who are economical with the truth, or miss out key information that you might need to make an informed decision.

Traders must make sure the information is provided in a timely manner - and not so late that it's of no use to you.

a trader will be committing an offence if it does any of the following:

''omits material information that the average consumer needs, according to the context, to make an informed decision about a transaction''

Reportable to trading standards.