Diesel hate? ..wtf?

[Chestrockwell]

In my opinion, diesel is the way forward in big cars.

A few weeks ago a client let me drive his Cayenne GTS, 63 plate, 4.8 V8, 400 something BHP. It being a V8 Porsche and me being a petrolhead, the drive I had was 1 mile mostly flat out, fast-ish and very loud, trip computer said 7 mpg. It had to be properly revved out to make any progress.

Currently in a 630d GT loaner, probably as big and heavy as the cayenne but silent and effortless with 35 mpg showing.

You can’t deny diesels having a time and place, in big heavy SUV’s, diesels the only way to go!

If I won the euromillions, I’d have a V8 diesel RRS over an SVR, any day of the week

[RobDickinson]

Big and heavy is prime ev territory.

[Big GT]

PSH said:

Big GT said:

PSH said:

Diesels are dead...petrol not far behind...when you have companies like Land Rover who's fleet of vehicles are made up with 90% diesel models stating that in less than 2 years the entire fleet will be electric...well I think that shows where things are heading....Now Landrover, being predominately diesel doing this so soon, a company that one might expect to be the last to do the switch, I bet all other manufacturers have plans that aren't far behind. Some will take longer than 2 years but it's going to happen and it's going to happen a lot sooner than the government's 2040 dead line although even that may be brought forward to 2030. So when you look at this, when you consider how long it takes to develop/produce a new car I think we may find no new models with IC engines within the next 5 years.....

we shall see

I have 3 cars

1) N/A 4ltr 6cyl 360bhp
2) Plug in Hybrid
3) 4 pot VAG Tdi

All 3 are fantastic. But suit totally difference purposes. Nothing can match a Diesel for motorway commutes, sitting at 70-90mph, low RPM, low effort high mpg.
The Hybrid as averaged 180mpg over the last 1100miles. Mostly town. However on the motorway its down at 40mpg and cant match the diesel.

I just cant see how Diesel will disappear soon unless the price differentiation between petrol increases significantly

I'm not suggesting that there's anything wrong per sec with Diesel cars, they have proved their performance for some years now, I've seen them win at Le Mans. The point is the world is becoming much more conscious of what it's doing to the planet, with plastics and diesel pollutants being under attack the most today. I happen to agree that diesels are worse for us to breath but then that's my personal opinion backed up by real life experience as I happen to be badly affected by diesel, something discovered back in the late 80's when my company car was changed to diesel in an attempt to save money. I was very quickly given a petrol car after tests proved how bad it was for me, I'm talking the wet fuel more than the exhaust gas here. Anyway it only took the (blue chip) company a year to change all company cars back to petrol after running costs rocketed. That's another issue altogether. Diesel will be gone soon, the writing is on the wall, I already mentioned 'Landrover', that alone shows how things are heading and in less than 2 years. Add the penalties being charged for parking permits in cities, road tax, German cities in the last few weeks being told that diesels are to be banned in two of their largest cities...the list goes on and on....
Things are going to change and much sooner than most people realise...

I agree about the diesel pollution and folks health.

But I don't think diesel's will go away for a while

1) Buses and lorry's will continue to use Diesel for a while. Its ironic driving in town in electric mode when stuck behind I belching bus in a cloud of smog. This annoys me

2) Our company car scheme has changed whereas we must have 99g or less CO2. This means tiny engine or hybrids. My colleagues have jumped into Hybrids and love the tax benefits. But the MPG on motorways are 10-15 less that there previous diesels so they're complaining about loosing out on the fuel claim.

Landover's and other manufactures need diesel in larger cars. They perform well and most importantly get good MPG at high speed. Hybrids cant match this over long distance. The Jaguar V6 or BMW s6 diesel they are awesome for larger cars.

However if the price of petrol become significantly less than Diesel then yes we may see a shift away.

[Pica-Pica]

I have seen an I6 a V6 and an H6 engine, never an S6. Wow.

[V88Dicky]

Big GT said:

I agree about the diesel pollution and folks health.

But I don't think diesel's will go away for a while

1) Buses and lorry's will continue to use Diesel for a while. Its ironic driving in town in electric mode when stuck behind I belching bus in a cloud of smog. This annoys me

2) Our company car scheme has changed whereas we must have 99g or less CO2. This means tiny engine or hybrids. My colleagues have jumped into Hybrids and love the tax benefits. But the MPG on motorways are 10-15 less than their previous diesels so they're complaining about losing out on the fuel claim.

This is what I don't get.

I regularly use hire cars through work for the same journey, a 280 mile trip from the NE to SE England.

By far the best mpg I've encountered, was in a Prius I was given last month, at 68mpg. Granted, I stuck to the speed limit the whole way and used cruise as much as possible.
Conversely, the (different) hire car for the return journey only managed 51mpg, driving to exactly the same conditions, and of course, it was a 2.0 tdi.

So what gives?

[AC43]

457892345 said:

Pistom said:

Or maybe it doesn't suit them. Personally, when I choose to drive a diesel it is because it is better suited to the task on hand. Despite this, some are so blinkered they refuse to accept that.

Inam happy to pay a premium for a diesel when it's the right choice which more my requirements is most of the time.

Yeah as i said everyones different but the point i was trying to make is that given enough time and different dervs to try im sure a lot of these diesel ''haters'' could be converted to at least indifference, pretty sure much of this ''hate'' stems from experience with old/crappy platforms and perhaps some bandwagoners thrown in.

I don't "hate" the kind of V6 diesels you get in, say, a 5 Series or an E Class but I'd never get one as I live in London and the stuff they spew out in stop start traffic is just plain wrong. And then you get the idiots in older ones with DPF deletes and remaps chucking out tons of soot. Nice.

It's the 4 pots that get me. Personally I just can't get on with the noise inside and out and the whole vibration thing. And, yes, I've driven and passengered in loads of them. Old ones. Middle aged ones. New ones. They all do it.

[Big GT]

V88Dicky said:

Big GT said:

I agree about the diesel pollution and folks health.

But I don't think diesel's will go away for a while

1) Buses and lorry's will continue to use Diesel for a while. Its ironic driving in town in electric mode when stuck behind I belching bus in a cloud of smog. This annoys me

2) Our company car scheme has changed whereas we must have 99g or less CO2. This means tiny engine or hybrids. My colleagues have jumped into Hybrids and love the tax benefits. But the MPG on motorways are 10-15 less than their previous diesels so they're complaining about losing out on the fuel claim.

This is what I don't get.

I regularly use hire cars through work for the same journey, a 280 mile trip from the NE to SE England.

By far the best mpg I've encountered, was in a Prius I was given last month, at 68mpg. Granted, I stuck to the speed limit the whole way and used cruise as much as possible.
Conversely, the (different) hire car for the return journey only managed 51mpg, driving to exactly the same conditions, and of course, it was a 2.0 tdi.

So what gives?

Probably this ' I stuck to the speed limit the whole way' I have read the Prius' return good MPG on motorway when at a steady pace.
If I drive our GTE and VRS on the motorway at 80mph the VRS is more economical. But I believe at 50-60mph the GTE would be better.

Also Hybrid use small engines to drag around heavy batteries. This is noticeable on long trips. My mates 530e is a heavy car and compared to the previous 520d is using much more fuel on Motorway.

[DaveE36]

I don't get the hate for diesels. I've always preferred petrols due to the way they rev, but opted for a diesel auto on my last purchase. It's never needed for commuting but I make regular long trips with a heavy foot and get 25-27 mpg on a good day. The equivalent power and torque in a petrol combined with the way I drive would probably see about 15 mpg.

Yes it chucks out soot sometimes but it goes like stink an will cruise at 100 leptons all day long. I'd prefer a screaming v8 but an inline 6 diesel does the job. Who really cares about the sound?

[PSH]

Regarding 'buses and Lorries' these will all be electric soon enough...I'm sure most here are aware of the very impressive electric semi's already in testing with battery life which covers vast distances and recharge time is very quick. Currently in London there are trials with electric dumpster trucks, these are also very impressive, one charge lasts ten hours which is more than enough to cover a days shift, recharge again is very quick too. When it comes to big cities, especially here in the UK and Europe, it won't be long before there is no diesel traffic of any type allowed, what happens with petrol is an unknown but I doubt if the same restrictive plans for petrol are not far behind. There will be a cliff edge when no haulage company will invest in new vehicles except electric, IMHO that day is drawing very close.

[Exige77]

PSH said:

Regarding 'buses and Lorries' these will all be electric soon enough...I'm sure most here are aware of the very impressive electric semi's already in testing with battery life which covers vast distances and recharge time is very quick. Currently in London there are trials with electric dumpster trucks, these are also very impressive, one charge lasts ten hours which is more than enough to cover a days shift, recharge again is very quick too. When it comes to big cities, especially here in the UK and Europe, it won't be long before there is no diesel traffic of any type allowed, what happens with petrol is an unknown but I doubt if the same restrictive plans for petrol are not far behind. There will be a cliff edge when no haulage company will invest in new vehicles except electric, IMHO that day is drawing very close.

Where’s all the electrickery going to come from for all these EV’s ? Sure we can make the Cars/trucks/buses, even the dumper trucks, but how to power them ? It’s not a quick fix

[Mr2Mike]

steveL98 said:

I was a petrol fan always until I borrowed an Octavia tdi. The torque, smoothness, flexibility in slow traffic, excellent drive on twisty roads and 65mpg, made me a believer in the diesel for a commuter and tourer. As a motorist, what's not to like?

The harshness, the noise, the smoke (from the pre-DPF engines at least), the all or nothing power delivery, the disgusting filler nozzles that mean you have to wear gloves to refuel. Probably a few more as well.

[GT119]

Diesel is the motoring equivalent of SPAM

[daemon]

Mr2Mike said:

steveL98 said:

I was a petrol fan always until I borrowed an Octavia tdi. The torque, smoothness, flexibility in slow traffic, excellent drive on twisty roads and 65mpg, made me a believer in the diesel for a commuter and tourer. As a motorist, what's not to like?

The harshness, the noise, the smoke (from the pre-DPF engines at least), the all or nothing power delivery, the disgusting filler nozzles that mean you have to wear gloves to refuel. Probably a few more as well.

Usually inside the car, you hear very little of it. No more than say a distant thrum. I recall a top gear review of the 535d v 540i and the 535d was quieter in the cabin

A diesel running well wont smoke, even without a DPF. If its smoking its because it has a problem - worn injectors / etc. Just like if a petrol car smokes its because it has a problem.

It isnt all or nothing, its about driving on the power band. It always bemuses me that people - seemingly real "drivers" here on PH - cant grasp that. Its about adjusting your driving style to suit the car. Not difficult.

I personally dont touch the filler nozzle - not sure why you would? Never wore gloves when filling a diesel. Never needed to.

[RobDickinson]

Exige77 said:

Where’s all the electrickery going to come from for all these EV’s ? Sure we can make the Cars/trucks/buses, even the dumper trucks, but how to power them ? It’s not a quick fix

The national grid dont seem worried.

[daemon]

Quite bemused by some of the anti-diesel comments. They're literally decades behind the times. Some of the criticisms would be suited to a 1990s car at best.

[daemon]

GT119 said:

Diesel is the motoring equivalent of SPAM

That doesnt even remotely make sense.

[otolith]

I ended up buying a diesel because I wanted a large estate with some poke and the rotters who bought them new back in 2005 either went for a weedy four cylinder petrol engine, a diesel, or a six litre petrol V8. Although I was tempted by the V8, this is meant to be my sensible, practical car and not to cost a fortune to run or to have crap ride for the sake of "sporty" handling, so I have a three litre V6 diesel. It's OK, but it's definitely less refined than a petrol six would be. From the outside it sounds like a diesel, and from the inside there is more vibration than I would expect from a petrol engine. And it's probably filthy. I'm glad that the new market is moving away from diesels towards petrol/hybrid/electric, because it will eventually filter down to the used market at the level I am willing to pay for a boring utility car.

[daemon]

Given the death knell for diesel has been around emissions / throttling of emissions (and the failures of that) and reliability issues (predominantly because of the throttling of emissions) i wonder if thats the way petrol engines will go too - we're already seeing highly strung small capacity petrol engines that are proving unreliable, emissions are still an issue too. I wonder if in 5 years time we'll be seeing the same reasoning for dropping petrol car sales?

[daemon]

foxbody-87 said:

It’s something like 15 ships produce more sulfur oxide than all the cars in the world combined, but per tonne of freight create less emissions than trucks or trains.

But it doesnt happen near us so thats all ok. Nothing to worry about

[daemon]

A900ss said:

It’s like arguing which is better, knife crime or gun crime. Both petrol and diesel are bad for the environment and our health but this is the world we live in.