Diesel hate? ..wtf?

[DonkeyApple]

cobra kid said:

I was hoping a diesel debate would come up today. Not had one for hours...

Indeed. But until someone manages to shove a Diesel engine and a bicycle (both on finance) up a horse’s wazoo and have it ridden by a fat, Muslim bird on benefits down a busy highstreet while she proffers liberal views for all to hear, we will need to rely on all these individual, daily threads.

[steveL98]

Anyway, I'm still a big fan of modern diesels for general commuting and long trips, and I love the fact that every time I rev my Octavia a bit, some environmentalist somewhere gets a headache and he's no idea why, ...but I didn't expect to find them here on Pistonheads!

[Filibuster]

Nickbrapp said:

It always gets me the UK Is such a drop in the ocean, other parts of the world are still chucking out massive amounts of co2 etc

I hear you! The big emitters of CO2 don't get stung, as much as the individual driver.
Also CO2 is a global thing that needs to be addressed.

Diesel fumes on the other hand are a matter that harm people locally. That Is why I absolutely advocate for Diesel bans in city center.
You do 30k miles p.a. 95% of that on the motorway? Ok, I can see why you might want a Diesel and it just might make sense.
You potter around town 5k mile p.a. and want a Diesel because the friendly car sales man said you are going to save the world and save a few quids? First, do the maths and yeah, sod off!

[steveL98]

Drive Blind said:

steveL98 said:

Drive Blind said:

steveL98 said:

I was a petrol fan always until I borrowed an Octavia tdi. The torque, smoothness, flexibility in slow traffic, excellent drive on twisty roads and 65mpg, made me a believer in the diesel for a commuter and tourer. As a motorist, what's not to like?

you must have experienced some pretty crappy petrol engines to describe the VW group PD diesel as smooth and flexible

that's the first 2 things i would say it is not.

Mine is a CR not a PD and its very smooth and quiet on the motorway, (helped along probably by decent oil I suspect )

sorry i must have misread your earlier post - thought it was a 2003 Octavia

PD's on some Octavias from 2000. Mine is a 2003 Elegance model with a CR 90 motor usuall just called a SOHC..

1.9 8v TDI 1,896 cc (115.7 cu in) 4 cyl SOHC 90 PS (66 kW; 89 hp) at 4000 rpm 210 N⋅m (150 lb⋅ft) at 1900 rpm AGR/ALH 1996–2005

Edited by steveL98 on Thursday 26th April 13:47

[Triumph Man]

steveL98 said:

Drive Blind said:

steveL98 said:

Drive Blind said:

steveL98 said:

I was a petrol fan always until I borrowed an Octavia tdi. The torque, smoothness, flexibility in slow traffic, excellent drive on twisty roads and 65mpg, made me a believer in the diesel for a commuter and tourer. As a motorist, what's not to like?

you must have experienced some pretty crappy petrol engines to describe the VW group PD diesel as smooth and flexible

that's the first 2 things i would say it is not.

Mine is a CR not a PD and its very smooth and quiet on the motorway, (helped along probably by decent oil I suspect )

sorry i must have misread your earlier post - thought it was a 2003 Octavia

PD's from 2005 on in an Octavia. Mine is a 2003 Elegance model with a CR 90 motor..

That's definitely not CR if it's 90 bhp... and having owned the 110 variant in a 1997 Passat, I can tell you it's definitely not refined!

5+ cylinders in a diesel yes (preferably a straight 6) for me.

[Toltec]

steveL98 said:

Why not?

Smelly, noisy, gutless, smokey, heavy, expensive, heavy.

Turbo charged ones have more go, but worse below turbo boost threshold than even a nasp one. To be fair a lot of earlier petrol turbo cars had that problem too if not to the same degree.

I can see the practical points if you just want transport and are doing high mileage, but I don't.

[InductionRoar]

steveL98 said:

Anyway, I'm still a big fan of modern diesels for general commuting and long trips, and I love the fact that every time I rev my Octavia a bit, some environmentalist somewhere gets a headache and he's no idea why, ...but I didn't expect to find them here on Pistonheads!

I'm not sure an 03 plate is "modern", but seeing as you want everybody to agree with you I can imagine that environmentalists do get a headache when you rev your 169k mile diesel engine (along with everybody else who has functioning ears).

[steveL98]

As above, some Octavia motors were SOHC PD's from 2000, and all from 2005. From 2000 to 2005 there was a mixture, mine is a CR.

Check my edited post above..

[Triumph Man]

At that age your Octavia will either be PD (doesn't sound like it though if its 90bhp) or the old VE distributor style pump, which is engine driven. It won't be common rail.

Edited by Triumph Man on Thursday 26th April 14:01

[steveL98]

Triumph Man said:

At that age your Octavia will either be PD (doesn't sound like it though if its 90bhp) or the old VE pump, which is engine driven. It won't be common rail.

1.9 8v TDI 1,896 cc (115.7 cu in) 4 cyl SOHC 90 PS (66 kW; 89 hp) at 4000 rpm 210 N?m (150 lb?ft) at 1900 rpm AGR/ALH 1996–2005

Ok, so these are images of what mine looks like.. What is it then?

[Triumph Man]

That's the old TDI with the VE pump - you can see the pump to the left of the yellow dipstick.

Still unrefined and gruff! And mine was in a Passat so I'd imagine in an Octavia is slightly less well soundproofed - extraordinarily economical though!

[wildoliver]

I think that's the old TDI engine. I had the 110 version in a b5 Passat. Was great for mpg but it wasn't smooth or powerful. Certainly wasn't quiet.

I can't imagine any right thinking person preferring the ownership experience of a diesel over an equivalent or better performance petrol. Fuel costs aside they are horrible.

[rampageturke]

Sheepshanks said:

eybic said:

steveL98 said:

All cars have emissions of one type or another, its what they do.. Old petrol motors can smoke as bad as old diesels.

They do but Diesel is particularly harmful.

So are wood burning fires.

....so?

[Justin Case]

A few years ago, the global warming industry hijacked the environmental debate, and it is only now that we realise the real pollutants (CO2 is inert and not a pollutant) such as particulates and NOx are the real villains of the piece, and diesels are worse than petrol or hybrids/EVs. Cars though must be a fairly insignificant part of the problem, the worst pollution is in cities where there are relatively more diesel buses than cars compared to elsewhere.

[Filibuster]

rampageturke said:

Sheepshanks said:

eybic said:

steveL98 said:

All cars have emissions of one type or another, its what they do.. Old petrol motors can smoke as bad as old diesels.

They do but Diesel is particularly harmful.

So are wood burning fires.

....so?

That is the sole reason why my car is not wood/steam powered. Once the emission problem with wood burning fires are dealt with, I'd happily have the Golf 9 wood/steam edition! In GTI trim, please...

[Filibuster]

Justin Case said:

A few years ago, the global warming industry hijacked the environmental debate, and it is only now that we realise the real pollutants (CO2 is inert and not a pollutant) such as particulates and NOx are the real villains of the piece, and diesels are worse than petrol or hybrids/EVs. Cars though must be a fairly insignificant part of the problem, the worst pollution is in cities where there are relatively more diesel buses than cars compared to elsewhere.

What is really shocking is, that in my city the government decided to move away from the natural gas operated busses they built an entire network of gas petrol stations for Diesel buses because of, wait for it ...















.. CO2 emissions!!

ETA: Natural gas is one of the most clean burning material to be used in Otto engines with outstanding efficiency

[Ninja59]

Justin Case said:

A few years ago, the global warming industry hijacked the environmental debate, and it is only now that we realise the real pollutants (CO2 is inert and not a pollutant) such as particulates and NOx are the real villains of the piece, and diesels are worse than petrol or hybrids/EVs. Cars though must be a fairly insignificant part of the problem, the worst pollution is in cities where there are relatively more diesel buses than cars compared to elsewhere.

Worse than petrols? A modern GDI petrol releases loads of particulates...in some cases more than a modern DPF diesel (and only just now are some getting GPF's fitted (that is why BMW have paused production of the M4 and many others are taking similar steps as part of the new testing measures)

Edited by Ninja59 on Thursday 26th April 15:34

[Toltec]

Ninja59 said:

Worse than petrols? A modern GDI petrol releases loads of particulates...in some cases more than a modern DPF diesel (and only just now are some getting GPF's fitted (that is why BMW have paused production of the M4 and many others are taking similar steps as part of the new testing measures)

Edited by Ninja59 on Thursday 26th April 15:34

GDIs exist because of the drive to reduce CO2 so it is the same problem really.

[LarsG]

Governments need tax to function, electric and low emission cars don't bring enough in so simple to demonise the diesel to make up the shortfall.

[Ninja59]

Toltec said:

GDIs exist because of the drive to reduce CO2 so it is the same problem really.

Yes, but solely blaming diesel for particulates is inaccurate (which is what most in the media and those not really fully informed do).

Rather than looking at the wider picture when many modern GDI engines are causing similar harm.

Although I do agree that the drive to reduce CO2 has pushed them this way.