RE: Honda Integra Type R DC2: PH Buying Guide

[TameRacingDriver]

chrismc1977 said:

^This.

‘Torque’. Rev it!! Yes it might only have ~130lbs/ft, but it’s light on its toes & very aerodynamic. It never ever feels flat. There isn’t a sweeter N/A motor to rev out in any case. So it revs a bit higher at cruising speeds- get used to it- it’s a Honda. It also revs higher than most N/A engines & thrives on them. A Ford CVH it is not....

‘Too raw’- absolute rubbish. Yeah it’s a bit vocal in the engine department due to the revs, but hardly requiring ear defenders. It’s a good noise!

Comes back to my point about the journos. Laughable indeed!!!!

Those were the most enjoyable bits. I never tired of revving the balls off that engine, it sounded great and the car went well and lapped up continuous abuse Never felt slow to me, either. Mine was 197 bhp and 1090kg. The lack of torque was not an issue when you had such a great gearchange and that noise to accompany it.

[chrismc1977]

TameRacingDriver said:

Those were the most enjoyable bits. I never tired of revving the balls off that engine, it sounded great and the car went well and lapped up continuous abuse Never felt slow to me, either. Mine was 197 bhp and 1090kg. The lack of torque was not an issue when you had such a great gearchange and that noise to accompany it.

Absolutely.

My last one had 150k on it when I sold it when my Mrs fell preggers.
Mugen airbox & exhaust, 98 manifold. All tied together with a proper remap.

A true 195hp/135lbs/ft. 8700 limiter (+300 over stock). An extra 15hp 4-6k revs

Blo*dy brilliant for what it was...

[leonintegra36]

p4cks said:

What a load of dog st

p4cks what is dog st your vocabulary by any chance? Why would I lie and site a type 49? I had part of the car in my garage for a long while as I helped with the clean up...I like lotus as much as the next man, but all true my good man sorry to say, it did hit the railings in the damp. I could also mention a yellow 350bhp S3 that out braked itself trying to come past the teg once only to hit a wall, but I wont for the record. I know autocar once slated the integra's odd spacing of gear ratios but when on it I never drop out of vtec. Same with the accord type r, try hard enough and vtec engages perfectly linearly into each gear. My stage 2 Cosworth 4x4 was faster than the integra or most serious cars so I am not deluded, but the integra is more than worthy as a driver centred car. Chris Harris used to lament Honda vtecs but is now extolling the virtues of ep3 and ek9. Thing is this debate is futile. Anybody who thinks the dc2 is not worthy is deluded. Oh and the dc2 will hit 150 so on a motorway the biggest issue is its natural cruising ability is into three figures. I know this from owning five per cent of the total allocation of UK integras. Sideways si had an integra just the five years. I bet Chris wouldn't part with his example unless it was a serious offer these days. Good on him is what I say.

[is1]

dc2rr07 said:

Yes the JDM manifold will certainly improve the car, not sure why the UK got stuck with that heavy lump.

There's no difference in weight between the JDM 98 and UK manifolds - I weighed both next to each other, weigh around 9KG each.
I was bitterly disappointed (re weight!), although clearly the JDM 98 is a better freer flowing design and once I'd disconnected the battery felt noticeably better than the my original UK one..

[s m]

SidewaysSi said:

I must try to dig out the original road tests at the time...I don't remember them being amazingly glowing to be fair.

s m - do you have any to hand?

Not very many other than the original review where they compared it to the Fiat Coupe..........which they picked overall, plus a few Handling Day reviews etc

I think it's one of those cars that has improved in journos' eyes since it's intro 2 decades back rather like the E30 M3 and 964RS

Maybe a not so strong reception when new but has improved immeasurably since then in magazines' opinions over the intervening years.

EVO didn't particularly give a glowing review to the GT86 when new but I'm sure it will improve as time passes

Ultimately the car is basically still the same though

[Koolkat969]

s m said:

Not very many other than the original review where they compared it to the Fiat Coupe..........which they picked overall, plus a few Handling Day reviews etc

I think it's one of those cars that has improved in journos' eyes since it's intro 2 decades back rather like the E30 M3 and 964RS

Maybe a not so strong reception when new but has improved immeasurably since then in magazines' opinions over the intervening years.

EVO didn't particularly give a glowing review to the GT86 when new but I'm sure it will improve as time passes

Ultimately the car is basically still the same though

The DC2 Type-R received glowing reviews even back in 1997 when it was new. In the Performance Car Magazine of November 1997 where it had a 6 page review (including pictures), the verdict in their own words were "Brilliant. Absolutely and utterly brilliant. The Type-R is a supreme driver's car at a price which makes sense, and with enough civility and carrying capacity to make the grade as everyday transport. Its extraordinary performance combined with its excellent chassis dynamics give the Type-R enough point-to-point potential to embarass supercars and make you question the need to spend anything more than 20 grand on a sports car".

The rivals to the Type-R listed at the time were the Fiat Coupe 20v turbo (4 stars), Lotus Elise (5 stars), Subaru Impreza Turbo (5 stars), Toyota Celica 2.0 GT (2 stars).

The DC2 obviously was awarded a 5 star rating!

[is1]

Re reviews, it came out pre-evo mag.
Russell Bulgin described it as possibly the best car ever to come out of Japan. Brett Fraser ran one and if I recall compared it to Porsche RSs.
Then it featured in evo’s top ten drivers cars alongside a Veyron, McLaren F1 etc.

It is a bit marmite but I’ve said before the highs are very high - it feels like an exotic.

[SidewaysSi]

Koolkat969 said:

s m said:

Not very many other than the original review where they compared it to the Fiat Coupe..........which they picked overall, plus a few Handling Day reviews etc

I think it's one of those cars that has improved in journos' eyes since it's intro 2 decades back rather like the E30 M3 and 964RS

Maybe a not so strong reception when new but has improved immeasurably since then in magazines' opinions over the intervening years.

EVO didn't particularly give a glowing review to the GT86 when new but I'm sure it will improve as time passes

Ultimately the car is basically still the same though

The DC2 Type-R received glowing reviews even back in 1997 when it was new. In the Performance Car Magazine of November 1997 where it had a 6 page review (including pictures), the verdict in their own words were "Brilliant. Absolutely and utterly brilliant. The Type-R is a supreme driver's car at a price which makes sense, and with enough civility and carrying capacity to make the grade as everyday transport. Its extraordinary performance combined with its excellent chassis dynamics give the Type-R enough point-to-point potential to embarass supercars and make you question the need to spend anything more than 20 grand on a sports car".

The rivals to the Type-R listed at the time were the Fiat Coupe 20v turbo (4 stars), Lotus Elise (5 stars), Subaru Impreza Turbo (5 stars), Toyota Celica 2.0 GT (2 stars).

The DC2 obviously was awarded a 5 star rating!

Those were the bad days of PC - not to be trusted.

[havoc]

is1 said:

Russell Bulgin described it as possibly the best car ever to come out of Japan.

I have an electronic copy of Bulgin's review - "R-for-religious". I daren't read it anymore as it just makes me want another even more...

[TameRacingDriver]

is1 said:

It is a bit marmite but I’ve said before the highs are very high - it feels like an exotic.

For me I think its to do with the revviness of its engine, the limiter on mine was 9000 rpm and it always seem to feel particularly pleased to be doing so. The earlier B18 engine for me has a better noise and more character than the later K20 engines even if the latter are by far technically better.

[havoc]

TameRacingDriver said:

The earlier B18 engine for me has a better noise and more character than the later K20 engines even if the latter are by far technically better.

Really miss that feral snarl on-cam. Especially in winter...always seemed angrier in cold weather!

[leonintegra36]

a car I really wanted growing up was an F355. However in convoy near York many moons ago was an F355 tailing a 964RS. The F355 today is still a remarkable sounding car, but on that day the 964RS sounded better in a guttural way. Point being the 964RS was available as low as £30k and not loved by the motoring fraternity. Now Richard Meaden owns one and they are a fortune. I think sideways si wants another integra in reality, but don't we all...I must say I didn't get the hot clio trophy thing until today; picture perfect day stunning roads and what a load of fun they are. The Integra is part of that special brigade.

[SidewaysSi]

leonintegra36 said:

a car I really wanted growing up was an F355. However in convoy near York many moons ago was an F355 tailing a 964RS. The F355 today is still a remarkable sounding car, but on that day the 964RS sounded better in a guttural way. Point being the 964RS was available as low as £30k and not loved by the motoring fraternity. Now Richard Meaden owns one and they are a fortune. I think sideways si wants another integra in reality, but don't we all...I must say I didn't get the hot clio trophy thing until today; picture perfect day stunning roads and what a load of fun they are. The Integra is part of that special brigade.

I know you have one but please come back down to earth. Maybe it is amazing based on what you have driven but for me, it wasn't.

I don't want another - it was too easy to drive fast and didn't provide enough of a challenge to be interesting long term as a keeper. Also it is FWD and I prefer rear drive on road and track.

And as I said before, I found the steering really quite terrible and such a disappointment. My current family car (albeit highly tweaked) has far superior steering feel than the Honda. And for me, steering is the most important trait in a driver's car. That's why I love lightweight cars and have a penchant for old French hatches.

And talking of them, whilst Meaden has a 964RS which you like to compare the Honda to (not in the same league IMO), he does have a 106 Rallye which is more interesting don't you think?

And my next car purchase to add to the little fleet will be a 911 as that too will be a car I keep to my grave. The Honda would be top 20 or thereabouts.

Saving that, the Mrs does need a car and I was thinking a Jazz. Those magic seats are quite clever. So yes, a Honda for me but not a 20 year old coupe with a propensity to rust when it drizzles

[leonintegra36]

Steering feel on an integra felt more beefy with the later thicker momo steering wheel shared with the Ferrari 550. The earlier rim was a tad thin. Why did you run an integra five years Si if they 're not that special? Rust has never been an issue on mine if looked after and not driven in the thick of winter. Meaden's 106 doesn't interest me as much as his 964RS; quite how you would prefer a 106 Rallye over an integra is a mystery to me, as it is like a cut price integra. I can understand an integra wont be everybodys preference, yet your choice in cars Si is a tad paradoxical. Saying a fiat coupe won a group test over an integra feels like you should have fun a fiat coupe years ago instead, despite the prominent torque steer. The integra was quicker than a fiat coupe 20v turbo down the straights and the Fiat was hardly paired back for the twisties. Also if you saw a mint integra for sale you wouldn't be interested, not even one tiny bit...

[FartKong]

Had mine 12 years now and intend on never selling it. Ive an early 98 UK car with the best bits from the 98 Jap car - 4-1 manifold and 16" wheels. Also added a Mugen intake, sports cat and Tanabe exhaust then rebushed every bush with Hard race bushes. I cant think of anything else I could do to make it any better.

Yeah modern cars are faster in a straight line but not by much once you get it singing through the gears and in the corners you just cant come close to the feel it gives. In a modern car you may as well be playing the Playstation as they are so numb to drive, st throttle response, st steering, st suspension etc.


20160419_201309-01 by Adam McFarland, on Flickr

Edited by FartKong on Monday 14th May 13:02

[SidewaysSi]

leonintegra36 said:

Steering feel on an integra felt more beefy with the later thicker momo steering wheel shared with the Ferrari 550. The earlier rim was a tad thin. Why did you run an integra five years Si if they 're not that special? Rust has never been an issue on mine if looked after and not driven in the thick of winter. Meaden's 106 doesn't interest me as much as his 964RS; quite how you would prefer a 106 Rallye over an integra is a mystery to me, as it is like a cut price integra. I can understand an integra wont be everybodys preference, yet your choice in cars Si is a tad paradoxical. Saying a fiat coupe won a group test over an integra feels like you should have fun a fiat coupe years ago instead, despite the prominent torque steer. The integra was quicker than a fiat coupe 20v turbo down the straights and the Fiat was hardly paired back for the twisties. Also if you saw a mint integra for sale you wouldn't be interested, not even one tiny bit...

I am not sure you quite get it to be honest and my choice in cars is usually after a load of homework. But I have reached a stage in life where I want a few keepers (have space for 4 fun cars) and the Honda misses the cut by some distance.

It is a good car but not in my top 4 of affordable machines. So no, I wouldn't be tempted unless I had space for 30 cars and an endless amount of cash and time to keep them all running, which I don't.

Also I didn't mention the Fiat and my car had the Momo wheel. A 106 is considerably lighter and has no PAS - big pluses.

[dufunk]

I have a Celica T Sport at the moment and I would say it is the better car to live with all round and it crazy what they are worth in comparison nowadays. Celica has more advanced vtec so it can nip around nicely before the lift where the teg wasn't as nice around town but did have the bigger powerband but unsure it is any more aggressive than the lift which shocked me. Teg wins on handling stock vs stock but a celica ts on coilovers is a real weapon on track. Power wise stock vs stock the celica would feel that bit quicker I think than a uk teg the power to weight is that bit better. They aren't worth the crazy money they are going for that's for sure go for a DC5 instead I let mine go for 1700 5 years ago and to be honest I would of felt guilty to look for any more as it was starting to tire and rust was hard to keep control off.

[PorkFan]

Amazing cars.....and the most 'special' feeling car I've ever driven. (That includes my current 996 turbo, and 400bhp Evo 9 GT) Especially with a K20 swap, a proper plated LSD, and only half an exhaust system on. the sound used make some of my passengers feel physically sick....it made my spine tingle.

They are great as standard cars, and with a mildly modified K20 swap, just about the cheapest way to embarrass M3's, Evos, and dare i say even a lot of Porsches round a track or down your local private road.

You can buy an off the shelf N/A K series engine with over 400 bhp now, and a standard 96 spec weighs 1060kg.

260 bhp, and 950kg are very achievable for a relatively modest budget....and because of the weight, it wont chew through expensive brakes and tyres at an alarming rate.

Some people think these cars are over-hyped....I say they are just now starting to get the appreciation they deserve.

They are still cheap for what they are....plenty of movement in price to come with these....I imagine as they approach 25 years old and they can be imported to the US the prices will start to fly (oldest ones are just coming up 23 now) so grab a rust free one from japan quick before they are all gone.

[TameRacingDriver]

dufunk said:

I have a Celica T Sport at the moment and I would say it is the better car to live with all round and it crazy what they are worth in comparison nowadays. Celica has more advanced vtec so it can nip around nicely before the lift where the teg wasn't as nice around town but did have the bigger powerband but unsure it is any more aggressive than the lift which shocked me. Teg wins on handling stock vs stock but a celica ts on coilovers is a real weapon on track. Power wise stock vs stock the celica would feel that bit quicker I think than a uk teg the power to weight is that bit better. They aren't worth the crazy money they are going for that's for sure go for a DC5 instead I let mine go for 1700 5 years ago and to be honest I would of felt guilty to look for any more as it was starting to tire and rust was hard to keep control off.

I drove a T-Sport before I got my 98 spec DC2, and I have to disagree that the teg felt flat at the lower rpm rev range. Neither car is torquey but the gearing on the ITR was much shorter and for me it felt a chunk quicker at low revs, in fact that was one of the first thing I noticed about the Celica was just how flat it felt at low revs. As for the Celica being quicker, no chance, The ITR VTEC kicked in slightly lower, had almost another 1,000 rpm extra to play with, and shorter gearing and light weight. The DC2 is a good chunk better than a T-Sport in almost every way I would say. The T-Sport was not enough to make me want to move on from my 182, but the DC2 was just another league.

[leonintegra36]

Woah Adam very nice picture of your integra and the inch larger diameter 98 spec rims really set it off a treat; being an integra buying guide the vast majority will be drooling over your car. Great!