RE: McLaren Senna: Driven
Discussion
Max_Torque said:
seriously?
it's a fact that the necessary talent to drive a modern high performance race car consistently at it's limit is rare, which is why most people aren't racing drivers. And it's a fact that being a multi-millionaire is also pretty rare. So the overlap, well, that's really, really small.
I'm not jealous of people being able to buy something like the Senna (why would i be, i drove it 2 and half years ago and was paid to do so!) i was merely pointing out that people buy these "faux race" cars because they massage their ego's! (which they do, because there is no objective comparison. Buy a real race car, race it, and if your rubbish then there is no where to hide. Buy a faux race car, fly your helicopter into some flash European race track, spank round the track for a morning giving your mates a ride (has passenger seat remember) and dine out on your "hero" status for months.......)
Now, there are rich people with real driving talent, the sort of talent it takes to win races, but lets be honest with ourselves, for every one of those, there are a 1000 with flash supercars who couldn't drive a greasy stick up a pigs a**e..... ;-)
I'd do that tomorrow if I had the money.it's a fact that the necessary talent to drive a modern high performance race car consistently at it's limit is rare, which is why most people aren't racing drivers. And it's a fact that being a multi-millionaire is also pretty rare. So the overlap, well, that's really, really small.
I'm not jealous of people being able to buy something like the Senna (why would i be, i drove it 2 and half years ago and was paid to do so!) i was merely pointing out that people buy these "faux race" cars because they massage their ego's! (which they do, because there is no objective comparison. Buy a real race car, race it, and if your rubbish then there is no where to hide. Buy a faux race car, fly your helicopter into some flash European race track, spank round the track for a morning giving your mates a ride (has passenger seat remember) and dine out on your "hero" status for months.......)
Now, there are rich people with real driving talent, the sort of talent it takes to win races, but lets be honest with ourselves, for every one of those, there are a 1000 with flash supercars who couldn't drive a greasy stick up a pigs a**e..... ;-)
99dndd said:
Max_Torque said:
seriously?
it's a fact that the necessary talent to drive a modern high performance race car consistently at it's limit is rare, which is why most people aren't racing drivers. And it's a fact that being a multi-millionaire is also pretty rare. So the overlap, well, that's really, really small.
I'm not jealous of people being able to buy something like the Senna (why would i be, i drove it 2 and half years ago and was paid to do so!) i was merely pointing out that people buy these "faux race" cars because they massage their ego's! (which they do, because there is no objective comparison. Buy a real race car, race it, and if your rubbish then there is no where to hide. Buy a faux race car, fly your helicopter into some flash European race track, spank round the track for a morning giving your mates a ride (has passenger seat remember) and dine out on your "hero" status for months.......)
Now, there are rich people with real driving talent, the sort of talent it takes to win races, but lets be honest with ourselves, for every one of those, there are a 1000 with flash supercars who couldn't drive a greasy stick up a pigs a**e..... ;-)
I'd do that tomorrow if I had the money.it's a fact that the necessary talent to drive a modern high performance race car consistently at it's limit is rare, which is why most people aren't racing drivers. And it's a fact that being a multi-millionaire is also pretty rare. So the overlap, well, that's really, really small.
I'm not jealous of people being able to buy something like the Senna (why would i be, i drove it 2 and half years ago and was paid to do so!) i was merely pointing out that people buy these "faux race" cars because they massage their ego's! (which they do, because there is no objective comparison. Buy a real race car, race it, and if your rubbish then there is no where to hide. Buy a faux race car, fly your helicopter into some flash European race track, spank round the track for a morning giving your mates a ride (has passenger seat remember) and dine out on your "hero" status for months.......)
Now, there are rich people with real driving talent, the sort of talent it takes to win races, but lets be honest with ourselves, for every one of those, there are a 1000 with flash supercars who couldn't drive a greasy stick up a pigs a**e..... ;-)
The simple fact is that >99% of people don't have the talent to race at a competitive level. Buying a GT3 car is fine if you're one of the talented <1%. For everyone else, buying a car that's far easier to drive at 80-90% of its potential, far more pleasant to drive, and can be used whenever and wherever they want is actually a good thing. Those people will get far more enjoyment from driving a bloody fast car at a fair old speed without any pressure to nail every last apex than they would from tootling around near the back of a race.
Car culture is all about myth
One is the one of the performance car driven at full speed on an empty twisty road with a great scenery, and that resuting feeling of great joy and freedom.
Another one is about the racing driver that got his seat purely because of enormous talent and not because someone payed for it somewhere along the way.
Each remains exceedingly rare methinks... And this car does both?
Oh well, I admire the tech, have no use for it irl so the minor concern of how to pay for it is superfluous
One is the one of the performance car driven at full speed on an empty twisty road with a great scenery, and that resuting feeling of great joy and freedom.
Another one is about the racing driver that got his seat purely because of enormous talent and not because someone payed for it somewhere along the way.
Each remains exceedingly rare methinks... And this car does both?
Oh well, I admire the tech, have no use for it irl so the minor concern of how to pay for it is superfluous
99dndd said:
Max_Torque said:
seriously?
it's a fact that the necessary talent to drive a modern high performance race car consistently at it's limit is rare, which is why most people aren't racing drivers. And it's a fact that being a multi-millionaire is also pretty rare. So the overlap, well, that's really, really small.
I'm not jealous of people being able to buy something like the Senna (why would i be, i drove it 2 and half years ago and was paid to do so!) i was merely pointing out that people buy these "faux race" cars because they massage their ego's! (which they do, because there is no objective comparison. Buy a real race car, race it, and if your rubbish then there is no where to hide. Buy a faux race car, fly your helicopter into some flash European race track, spank round the track for a morning giving your mates a ride (has passenger seat remember) and dine out on your "hero" status for months.......)
Now, there are rich people with real driving talent, the sort of talent it takes to win races, but lets be honest with ourselves, for every one of those, there are a 1000 with flash supercars who couldn't drive a greasy stick up a pigs a**e..... ;-)
I'd do that tomorrow if I had the money.it's a fact that the necessary talent to drive a modern high performance race car consistently at it's limit is rare, which is why most people aren't racing drivers. And it's a fact that being a multi-millionaire is also pretty rare. So the overlap, well, that's really, really small.
I'm not jealous of people being able to buy something like the Senna (why would i be, i drove it 2 and half years ago and was paid to do so!) i was merely pointing out that people buy these "faux race" cars because they massage their ego's! (which they do, because there is no objective comparison. Buy a real race car, race it, and if your rubbish then there is no where to hide. Buy a faux race car, fly your helicopter into some flash European race track, spank round the track for a morning giving your mates a ride (has passenger seat remember) and dine out on your "hero" status for months.......)
Now, there are rich people with real driving talent, the sort of talent it takes to win races, but lets be honest with ourselves, for every one of those, there are a 1000 with flash supercars who couldn't drive a greasy stick up a pigs a**e..... ;-)
re: rich people
having done rma track days for many years I've noticed that many super wealthy people are good drivers simply because they have had lots of time to hone their driving abilities with track days and the finest instructors. Many retire early or hold positions within their companies that affords them practically endless free time! also it's very common for their children to go into racing from an early age (parents living their dreams through their children style, I wouldn't be complaining though!)
having done rma track days for many years I've noticed that many super wealthy people are good drivers simply because they have had lots of time to hone their driving abilities with track days and the finest instructors. Many retire early or hold positions within their companies that affords them practically endless free time! also it's very common for their children to go into racing from an early age (parents living their dreams through their children style, I wouldn't be complaining though!)
So in two pages we have gone from me replying to the question "why would you buy this Senna over a proper race car" and my reply being "because many more people will enjoy a faux race car rather than a real race car because there is no objective data to be humbled by" directly too: "you're only saying that because you're jealous, bitter, and don;t know what you're talking about and think you're a driving god and could lap faster in your Golf R".
Pretty typical PH thread then....
(i should point out that if i had the money i'd buy a Senna (actually i wouldn't i'd have the P1 because it's more fun) and i'm glad people do buy these sorts of cars, for what ever reason, because that keeps me employed and being able to be paid to drive these flash cars years before you riff-raff get to pay to drive them.... lol)
Pretty typical PH thread then....
(i should point out that if i had the money i'd buy a Senna (actually i wouldn't i'd have the P1 because it's more fun) and i'm glad people do buy these sorts of cars, for what ever reason, because that keeps me employed and being able to be paid to drive these flash cars years before you riff-raff get to pay to drive them.... lol)
Maldini35 said:
RacerMike said:
shortar53 said:
RacerMike said:
Don't be silly. It's a no compromise track car for the road that's 2s slower than a no compromise track car (GT3 car) despite having an extra 300bhp and allegedly 200kg more downforce 
Better hope no-one takes the restrictors off their 650S GT3....
Or puts track slicks on their Senna. Better hope no-one takes the restrictors off their 650S GT3....- a passenger seat
- pedestrian impact tests (remove aggressive aero addenda)
- pass emissions regs
- indicators
- electric windows
- NVH considerations (sound deadening, bushes to absorb some vibration etc.)
- cooling, gearbox and brakes that work in traffic without overheating
- nose lift
- sat nav
- climate control
That would lot would slow a GT3 car down a fair bit - especially losing the extreme aero.
I guess we’ll never know but it’s fun to speculate
Max_Torque said:
directly too: "you're only saying that because you're jealous, bitter, and don;t know what you're talking about and think you're a driving god and could lap faster in your Golf R".
Which nobody said. I said you were coming across like you were bitter. When lots of people are telling you you're sounding like a dick, there's a strong chance they're seeing something you're not aware of.Davey S2 said:
Assuming you could still buy both at list price and you had the money to do so would you go for a Senna or a P1?
I still think i'd go for a P1. It was the first of its kind from McLaren and while the technology may be surpassed and the outright speed too, it was a landmark car and to own it would be a huge privilege. It would be the P1 for me.
Beejayhay said:
Watched a documentary once of some guy making a Vulcan road legal. Even just doing the bare minimum was a helluva job
It's this one and it's a very good video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg2rGEVLoTY
Ironically it always begged the question that "if you wanted a track car that was road legal" then why wouldn't you just buy one that was designed to be such from the start. A bit like the Senna for example. But each to their own, it is very cool as a one off creation.
gigglebug said:
Beejayhay said:
Watched a documentary once of some guy making a Vulcan road legal. Even just doing the bare minimum was a helluva job
It's this one and it's a very good video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg2rGEVLoTY
Ironically it always begged the question that "if you wanted a track car that was road legal" then why wouldn't you just buy one that was designed to be such from the start. A bit like the Senna for example. But each to their own, it is very cool as a one off creation.
RacerMike said:
Main difference is the Vulcan was never designed or derived from a road car so things like lights were never a consideration. To make a 650S GT3 road, legal, it really wouldn't be that tough. It's actually possible to road register a Vantage GT4 if you can be bothered to spend the time neatening it up. There are a few around that already have V5s.
It's a fair point. I just never understood the point of converting P1 GTR's, FXX's and the like, especially when you had to have already obtained a road going version to have bought one in the first place. Not that I still don't appreciate them for what they are of course. Mclaren appear to have looked at this market and catered for it from the off by designing the car to be such from the outset which must be better than starting at a fixed point, at either end of the scale, then moving towards the other.
Of course when the track only version of the Senna arrives the question will open itself up again I'm sure.
RacerMike said:
Maldini35 said:
Why the downer on McLaren anyway? I know you work for a rival manufacturer but they’re not really competing brands are they?
Why not just rejoice in another very fast car that by all accounts is great fun to drive?
It's a really good question, and I'm not entirely sure why! I'm obviously not the only one that gets wound up by them and if I was to maybe try and summarise what I find frustrating (that's probably the strongest word I can use) I'd probably say that I don't like the way they seem to market their cars as a sort of 'antithesis' to to the rest of the car industry (previously, particularly Ferrari although this seems to have died down in recent years. It's a little like they claim their cars are solely about their engineering prowess and greatness with no bs marketing at all. Why not just rejoice in another very fast car that by all accounts is great fun to drive?
And people, on the whole seem to believe it. The honest reality is though, that they're as marking led as anyone else. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this. They absolutely play on the fact people believe them when they say 'no compromise' and 'fastest road car ever' without any actual backing up of those facts. The reality is, those claims are pretty much as vacuous as Ferrari saying that a car 'plays on the emotion of the great Enzo Ferrari and his search for perfection'. And yet when other companies make fairly technical claims, or lap time comparisons, it's immediately dismissed as rubbish. Why do McLaren seem to get this bizarre free pass on largely unsubstantiated claims?
I don’t necessarily agree with what you say - every single manufacturer makes some silly claims and I suppose McLaren are not different but they have tended to make the better drivers cars (judging by their recent models) so I perhaps give them more license.
I don’t think they are a marketing led company - definitely engineering led.
If you look at the staffing levels of the two departments you’ll be left in no doubt as to the companies priorities (engineering).
I get that you resent the racing references (I’m a hopeless clubbie racer and even I get annoyed by some of the racing comparisons and claims made by manufacturers) but McLaren don’t overdo it in my eyes. They certainly have more racing credibility than most manufacturers and many of the road car engineers cut their teeth in the F1 team.
A lot of the BS you read will come from journalists looking for a click bait headline.
Just look at it!
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