Many New Luxury Cars on the Road - How?

Many New Luxury Cars on the Road - How?

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Discussion

djc206

12,245 posts

124 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
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swerni said:
Stil stands. Would a £45k car not be considered a luxury?
Well that depends on your baseline doesn’t it. If you’re very wealthy no, if you’re not then yes and all shades of grey in between.

The original point about an X5 being a £60k car is telling. People are massively overestimating the cost of things and underestimating the wealth/income of others. Broadspeed reckon they can get you an Xdrive50i for that £60k.

This forum is full of people who got Golf R’s for under £300/month. Just recently there were cracking deals on XC60’s, S90’s and even SQ7’s. These are reasonably luxurious by most people’s standards I’d suggest but some of them were affordable to the average person.

unsprung

5,467 posts

123 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
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untakenname said:
I wonder what will happen to car deals once Brexit kicks in as the import tariffs could easy add a lot onto the cost combined with an increase in interest rates it could spell the end of cheap leasing.
this is an interesting observation, because it raises the idea of the once-in-a-lifetime opportunities that will occur just before or just after Brexit -- not just in cars, mind, but in many other goods and services

additionally, there have been some comments here of a macroeconomic nature (eg: couples not having children)

to those we should probably add more demographic shifts of late: although the middle class is shrinking, this is not because everybody's falling down the ladder, if you will

the upper-middle class and the lower-upper class have expanded in number -- and their consumption is, consequently, more visible than before

I do believe it's mostly the lease thing that everybody's mentioned here (and in other threads), but there are also other factors in play


J4CKO

41,287 posts

199 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
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Luxury is a difficult term to define, it is subjective, for some a working modern car with electric windows is luxury, for some on here apparently an X5 isnt so I guess they need an RR Phantom or similar to consider it luxury.

Globally, having access to a car could be considered a luxury.

Personally I find modern BMW's not that luxurious in my definition, X5's seem quite stiff and have quite hard leather seats, luxury is more floaty suspension and velour, luxury is a compound concept where cost is a factor.

They are expensive at 50 grand.

jeremyh1

1,348 posts

126 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
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maclarkk said:
Biggest load of rubbish I’ve read on here since joining. Congratulations.

People borrowing money BOOSTS the economy.

The reason for the crash was because the banks lent money to people they shouldn’t have. Such as people who cannot pay back the finance because they are ALSO spending their money on other outgoings, like holidays, alcohol, and the like, as those you describe in your post.

The banks didn’t do enough research into who they were lending money to.

So I think you’ll find it was the BANK’s fault.
This is exactly what I am talking about blame the banks not my fault .

Totally irresponsible attitude . Take no responsibility for your own actions

If you borrow money you are responsible not just the bank

" Oh this is all the banks fault It cant be my fault "


jeremyh1

1,348 posts

126 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
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DoubleD said:
What about the person who borrowed the money from the bank?
He would be too dumb and stupid to take ownership for his own actions. So It must be the lenders fault !

captain_cynic

11,873 posts

94 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
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jeremyh1 said:
maclarkk said:
Biggest load of rubbish I’ve read on here since joining. Congratulations.

People borrowing money BOOSTS the economy.

The reason for the crash was because the banks lent money to people they shouldn’t have. Such as people who cannot pay back the finance because they are ALSO spending their money on other outgoings, like holidays, alcohol, and the like, as those you describe in your post.

The banks didn’t do enough research into who they were lending money to.

So I think you’ll find it was the BANK’s fault.
This is exactly what I am talking about blame the banks not my fault .

Totally irresponsible attitude . Take no responsibility for your own actions

If you borrow money you are responsible not just the bank

" Oh this is all the banks fault It cant be my fault "
Ultimately it is the banks power to say yes or no to a loan. Thus is the onus of the lender to be reasonably assured that borrower can repay the debt. So yes, it is the banks fault for making such a bad loan.

Also why there are stiff penalties for providing a lender with false information.

CABC

5,533 posts

100 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
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employees of banks care little. they make their bonuses short-term.
so they bundle junk as aaa, mis-sell, move on.
similar to continually seeking high yield from Argentina when the likely hood of getting the capital back is, eh, small.
boom&bust. or redistribution.

Lucas Ayde

3,541 posts

167 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
jeremyh1 said:
This is exactly what I am talking about blame the banks not my fault .

Totally irresponsible attitude . Take no responsibility for your own actions

If you borrow money you are responsible not just the bank

" Oh this is all the banks fault It cant be my fault "
It was a mix of irresponsible borrowing (either for consumption and/or more than the borrower could afford to pay back) and the banks being greedy enough to extend credit despite obvious risks. In fact, the banks figured out all sorts of ways to circumvent rules designed to make them fiscally responsible in order that they could lend recklessly.

Not to worry though as the banking system got a massive taxpayer funded bailout and the borrowers got bailed out by super-low interest rates which screw over anyone prudent stupid enough to save. No real outcry from the general public as so many are in debt and/or have little to no savings and also are too mentally lazy to bother working out anything to do with financial matters.


maclarkk

2,622 posts

69 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
jeremyh1 said:
This is exactly what I am talking about blame the banks not my fault .

Totally irresponsible attitude . Take no responsibility for your own actions

If you borrow money you are responsible not just the bank

" Oh this is all the banks fault It cant be my fault "
You clearly do not have a scooby.

The banks were ENCOURAGING those who did not have a pot to piss in to borrow money from them in the hope they could claw it back plus interest and other charges.

To be frank it’s still going on today. Pay day loan companies for example buy data (pre-GDPR) from credit companies and specifically target those who are more likely to take a pay day loan out, knowing full well they will flees them when they can’t pay it back on time.

But I guess you’re an expert on other people’s finances so you’ll disagree with this.

maclarkk

2,622 posts

69 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
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Nanook said:
Drug dealers ENCOURAGE people to take drugs.

Timeshare sellers ENCOURAGE people to buy timeshares.

Heck, today Amazon are ENCOURAGING me to buy a new vacuum cleaner.

Is it entirely their responsibility if I buy one and can't really afford it?
I’m not arguing with you, it’s a fact, that is what caused the recession. Which is why the banks got a bking and new regulations are now in place for those lending mortgages etc.

Lending money improves the U.K. economy, also a fact.

jeremyh1

1,348 posts

126 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
maclarkk said:
You clearly do not have a scooby.

The banks were ENCOURAGING those who did not have a pot to piss in to borrow money from them in the hope they could claw it back plus interest and other charges.

To be frank it’s still going on today. Pay day loan companies for example buy data (pre-GDPR) from credit companies and specifically target those who are more likely to take a pay day loan out, knowing full well they will flees them when they can’t pay it back on time.

But I guess you’re an expert on other people’s finances so you’ll disagree with this.
Um I am not talking about other peoples finances I am talking about people blowing other peoples money ie the banks and the knock on effect it has on the rest of us

I dont know about pay day loans maybe you could educate me .
Now you going to tell ,me I dont know about money because I have never had a payday loan


Justin Case

2,195 posts

133 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
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maclarkk said:
Lending money improves the German and Korean economies, also a fact.
EFA

Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

209 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
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OMITN said:
It's a cultural thing: Brits like to spend. We're not like the saving Germans - we'd rather have luxury now than restrain ourselves. It's borne out in how few people have much money in the bank (I think I saw something that said 25% of the population don't have any savings).

I suspect there are a number of factors, but the inevitable "doing well" image is important for many.

As others have said, it's priorities and living in the now. I can easily* afford the monthlies on a Discovery or whatever, but actually I'm of an age where putting money away (into pension and savings) feels like more of a priority. That said I've just spent a huge amount extending and renovating our house, so the real priority is now paying down the mortgage.

I currently lease (just under £300 pcm) and Mrs OMITN has a car on PCP (also just under £300 pcm), though am increasingly drawn to the idea of a comfortable but bog standard s/h daily for commuting etc and something like an old Elise in the garage for fun).

  • I tick plenty of the PH cliches, esp the powerfully built one unfortunately..!
yes

It's a common conceit on PH that everybody by default spends every penny they can borrow or earn on a car and not doing exactly that is perceived as some sort of inadequacy which is frequently derided by those who do spend all they can get their hands on as a form of justification for their choices.

Not so in the real world. There are some who spend as much as they can and other who spend as little as they can.

Nobody however seems to be able to spot the irony of anyone crippling themselves financially by driving a expensive car in order to convince everybody else how much money they have. Two aspirational cars on the drive but absolutely fkuck all in the fridge. That's the British way...

SidewaysSi

10,742 posts

233 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
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Thankyou4calling said:
SidewaysSi said:
We all have different wants, needs and priorities in life but where I am, £70k is not that much unfortunately.

House prices are expensive so a mortgage can eat up over half net income on a £70K salary. Add in travel, running a car, perhaps nursery fees and a wife on maternity who earns fk all and very quickly, things would be tricky.

I don't want to get all Audemars here and yes, I appreciate against others in the country it is a lot, but in the grand scheme of things, even £70K is not that much. Of course if you live somewhere cheaper and aren't married etc, life would be much rosier.

More a reflection on the sad state of things to be honest.

Anyway, this has somewhat diverted the thread.
It has but as stated earlier, the average London salary is £35k so where are you that twice that isn't a lot? must be abroad.

There are plenty of people who drive expensive cars and have very nice houses yet have an income of well under £70k, you simply don't know there circumstances, too judgemental.
I am not sure what your point is.

maclarkk

2,622 posts

69 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
jeremyh1 said:
Um I am not talking about other peoples finances I am talking about people blowing other peoples money ie the banks and the knock on effect it has on the rest of us

I dont know about pay day loans maybe you could educate me .
Now you going to tell ,me I dont know about money because I have never had a payday loan
I wouldn't sit at home rocking, worrying about any knock on effects of people not paying back their debt... most debt nowadays is sold on to debt collection companies who specialise in fetching the debt, plus some. The number of these types of companies have swelled since the recession. Just relax.

Apologies if I have misunderstood your dry or facetious sense of humour, but if you truly do not know what a pay day loan is/or do not understand why I have used it as an example, please excuse me for stopping our conversation here. smile

Nanook said:
To be clear, I'm not disputing the cause of the recession.

A previous poster was suggesting that the individual needs to take responsibility for their actions and finances.

It seemed that you were disagreeing with him, since you started with "You clearly do not have a scooby."

I was making a point about the individual having some responsibility for their own finances, you can't blame it all on the lenders.
No problem. If you take a look at my other posts, you will note that I certainly am an advocate for people taking responsibility for their actions.

My point, and I admit I could have made it clearer, is that using the recession as a reason to encourage others not to drive new luxury cars, is ludicrous.

You may have taken it another way, but I read it as "don't buy nice new cars or you will cause another recession" in a roundabout way.

JaredVannett

1,561 posts

142 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Jaguar steve said:
yes

It's a common conceit on PH that everybody by default spends every penny they can borrow or earn on a car and not doing exactly that is perceived as some sort of inadequacy which is frequently derided by those who do spend all they can get their hands on as a form of justification for their choices.

Not so in the real world. There are some who spend as much as they can and other who spend as little as they can.

Nobody however seems to be able to spot the irony of anyone crippling themselves financially by driving a expensive car in order to convince everybody else how much money they have. Two aspirational cars on the drive but absolutely fkuck all in the fridge. That's the British way...
Quite enjoyed your last line hehe

Thing is though for 'most' younger folk.... it's all superficial these days a.k.a Fake it until you make it.

Anyone remember that classic PH thread where Dad bought his sprog a 1980's polo for his first car, and the sprog threw it back in his face for fear of having the piss taken by his mates?

There was some stat a few weeks ago that claimed more people applied for love island than Cambridge/Oxford?


jeremyh1

1,348 posts

126 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
maclarkk said:
No problem. If you take a look at my other posts, you will note that I certainly am an advocate for people taking responsibility for their actions.

My point, and I admit I could have made it clearer, is that using the recession as a reason to encourage others not to drive new luxury cars, is ludicrous.

You may have taken it another way, but I read it as "don't buy nice new cars or you will cause another recession" in a roundabout way.
I have worked you out now

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
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The banks have a responsibility when it comes to lending, but the person borrowing obviously has to also decide for themselves if they can afford it or not.

Dog Star

16,079 posts

167 months

Thursday 19th July 2018
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schmalex said:
That was from Ford direct. 2017 car with a very hefty discount. From memory, my wife’s is actually slightly more than £400. It’s about £420 on 15k p.a. We upgraded to the auto box and Custom pack and negotiated down from there.

I just checked again on the Ford website and they are still offering the manual 2017 model GT at £399 / month. I think that’s on 8k p.a, though.
That at 15Kpa is bang on budget, I'm due to change in December so hopefully there should be deals around at that time.
I'm not going for the 5.0 though; I have a long commute and it's sloooooow - I'd be paying an awful lot of money extra for a noise.

Toltec

7,159 posts

222 months

Thursday 19th July 2018
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JaredVannett said:
Quite enjoyed your last line hehe

Thing is though for 'most' younger folk.... it's all superficial these days a.k.a Fake it until you make it.

Anyone remember that classic PH thread where Dad bought his sprog a 1980's polo for his first car, and the sprog threw it back in his face for fear of having the piss taken by his mates?

There was some stat a few weeks ago that claimed more people applied for love island than Cambridge/Oxford?
Given 84% of people aren't very bright and 2% or less are actually clever that is hardly surprising.