How to combat Keyless entry thefts?!
Discussion
Jbliss said:
I’ve got a telescopic bollard in the drive. Pretty good deterrent if you ask me and was only ~£450 fitted
Is it remote operated? Can you help this guy https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... out?Ok, sounds to me like you don't want to accept that any system can be bypassed, regardless of how good the marketing is. All I know is that a MK2 Focus RS was stolen by bypassing the Ghost system 2 days after it was fitted. Just because it's not reported on the owners club forums doesn't mean it didn't happen. Many many buy cars and just drive them, they don't join forums. The event was, however, all over Twitter and Facebook and Autowatch did address it.
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=186...
30 second Google and I found this...
Might be worth rechking with your "guy" about updates...
30 second Google and I found this...
Might be worth rechking with your "guy" about updates...
Tuvra said:
zedx19 said:
Unsure why you're so arrogant about it tbh, can your guy prove it's 100% secure? This guy has been playing hockey with my best man for years, it's not just a random mate of a mate thing. He'd gone to see a mate, left the car parked outside for 10 minutes when he heard it start and go. He had the keys inside the house with him, the car was locked, the Ghost system had been fitted. The car is keyless, the thieves bypassed the Ghost system pretty easily and made off with it. The fact they took a car with a very well regarded security system but then ended crashing it should make you think about how secure it actually was, pre-patch. Autowatch were made aware of the situation, looked into it, found a flaw and issued a patch to fix it. This happened, regardless of what anyone tells you. If you had your system installed before October time last year, probably worth asking whether there's a patch for your system.
Thinking you're going to find videos on Youtube of how to bypass a security system is pretty daft.
I'm not being arrogant. All I'm saying is that sometimes everything isn't what it seems, I know a chap that had his CTR stolen and crashed, at least that's what he told the Insurance company - truth was he toppled it whilst pissing about on a beach which would have invalidated his insurance Thinking you're going to find videos on Youtube of how to bypass a security system is pretty daft.
I'm pretty sure if there was a major flaw with the system, a small company like Autowatch couldn't simply make all stories about it "disappear" from all online social media, forums and news outlets. Besides, if there was a crucial "update" surely Autowatch would have to publicly acknowledge that there is a security flaw and encourage existing customers to have the system updated rather than perform some form of magic and wipe out all news of the flaw online?
As someone who has run in the MK2 & MK3 Focus RS & ST circles, I have never heard of an ST/RS being taken with a Ghost fitted! In fact I just spent another 15-20 minutes browsing various forums and can't find anyone else who's had a Ghost fitted car taken. This includes VW's, BMW's, Audi's, Mercedes, Land Rover, Nissan & Ford forums.
I've also watched about 15 videos online showing the system get bypassed, this one for example, how the f
k do you know he's not putting the pin in? He's made three of them too!! 
Blaster72 said:
You're ignoring some very sound advice, get in touch and ask them if you need the upgrade. They posted this on their Facebook page and it's still very easy to find so I've no idea why you couldn't find it and were practically accusing the other poster of making things up.
You've missed a very important one too... 
Blaster72 said:
You're ignoring some very sound advice, get in touch and ask them if you need the upgrade. They posted this on their Facebook page and it's still very easy to find so I've no idea why you couldn't find it and were practically accusing the other poster of making things up.
I wasn't ignoring any advice, I asked for proof and what was supplied was anything but. What you have posted is proof
Don't buy a car with keyless entry, if people stopped buying cars with keyless entry it will disappear from the market pretty quickly.
Manufacturers leaving the ODB port powered when the car is locked is just plain dumb, the manufacturers should re-imburse the insurers losses when this cock-up is used to steal a car. Might focus their attention to secure their cars properly as owners carry the financial cost in higher insurance premiums despite not being at fault.
Manufacturers leaving the ODB port powered when the car is locked is just plain dumb, the manufacturers should re-imburse the insurers losses when this cock-up is used to steal a car. Might focus their attention to secure their cars properly as owners carry the financial cost in higher insurance premiums despite not being at fault.
A cheap CAT 2 immobiliser is as good as anything.
http://www.laserlinedirect.com/products/immobilise...
http://www.laserlinedirect.com/products/immobilise...
gottans said:
Don't buy a car with keyless entry
Made sure that option wasn't ticked on last two cars bought, despite dealer trying to tell me it would harm re-sale value if not specced.
They shut up when I said, "I'd rather increase the chances of me still having the car to be able to sell it when the time comes".....
Tuvra said:
I wasn't ignoring any advice, I asked for proof and what was supplied was anything but.
What you have posted is proof
Perhaps take the advice of those trying to help in the future, rather than relying on a guy who makes a living out of installing the security system? In the time you've spent arguing, you could have just contacted Autowatch direct and realised I wasn't making it up.What you have posted is proof
I think we are all jumping to conclusions here.
Did your father's X5 have Comfort Access or not? Was any glass on the ground where the car was parked?
Reality is some of the posters above have highlighted some of the ways it can be done, but there are inaccuracies:
1) Relay Theft - this is even faster than programming a key. The fastest I have seen is 12 seconds from the point of the guy going to the front door grabbing the keys signal and the other thief being in and started the car.
A poster above incorrectly stated this would only get you in the car that is wrong. The same flaw of keyless entry allows starting.
In theory a thief could use this for a vehicle with keyless start after entry as well, so even those with only "partial keyless" are at risk in some regards as well. Unfortunately there is as far as I am aware very few cars without keyless start now.
Many of these "devices" are about £300 - £400. Additionally in many cases they are modified signal devices like set top boxes, routers and other items. Most are from Eastern Europe in general.
Generally being done on Merc and BMW IMO.
2) OBD port - Was popular but look around it is not really all that common now. I agree it is a risk though and on certain vehicles still causes issues. It is less popular though as it costs more to buy the professional locksmith OBD tools from predominantly Eastern Europe, but also takes more time.
It also leaves the potential evidence of smashed glass with any fibres etc. (if the police had the time, budget and inclination obviously!).
If one brand is still likely to be done this way I would say Ford. Although there have been relay thefts on some Ford's as well.
3) Another one that is unfortunately becoming more common and is probably the most difficult to stop is simply using recovery or loaders. There has been some cases recently of cars disappearing over night no glass. But CCTV has revealed simply a few guys dragging it away or putting them on a loader.
4) Entry to the home - for certain cars this seems a popular MO. Unfortunately it appears most often with Audi S/RS or the obvious Golf R.
5) I suppose there is a fifth in inside job, which there has been some instances of recently as well.
One poster above mentioned one critical thing layering. From layering your home through to layering your car with additional security.
Don't think of security in one aspect, but a multi dimensional thing. Ultimately your obvious end game is to stop the "ease" in which it can be taken. Faraday pouches which need regular checking are useful, but not checked regularly can leak signal you may want to consider putting them in a metal lined tin, and then the bag as well.
However I will also point out that sadly it is far from just the whole vehicle being taken these days, certain vehicles sadly are having parts stolen which has exploded in some parts of Europe. Germany, Belgium, Sweden and few others have all had spates of part theft from vehicles, mostly again sadly from Eastern Europe with gangs stealing particular parts over the course of weeks or months. So bad was the problem in some parts whole dealership forecourts got targeted and had parts removed ( I believe there was one BMW dealership stripped of every steering wheel from the vehicles on the forecourt).
Some may or may not be aware of steering wheel theft, trim, computer (idrive, mmi etc.) theft. Steering wheels are expensive and so are replacing bits of idrive etc.
Unfortunately just before Christmas Kent was suffering a spate of early morning thefts of steering wheels from BMW's predominantly, but Mercedes, Audi and few others got targeted as well. Sadly a number of cars got written off, not because of the interior thefts, but the manner in which the thieves gained entry to the vehicles (one of the PH guys on here in North Kent had his 4 series written off with 14k of damage, I know of another M5 which did get repaired but the bill was something like £25k).
For now the spates in Kent have reduced due to the police throwing resources to get the pair, unfortunately one of them is still quote "out there", the other is now spending some time at the pleasure of HM. The frustrating thing for me is that Mr Lukosevicius (the one that got caught) was originally doing it in Sweden, they banned him 4 times before eventually stopping him on the fifth after numerous spates in Sweden of steering wheel theft (in one incident it is believed he targeted the owners X5 stole the steering wheel, idrive and few other bits and then stole the steering wheel from the 1 series courtesy car the owner had been given! FFS)
So where did he go? The UK FFS. The difference is the UK unlike many other countries does fit alarms and they did cause more damage as a result. It was not uncommon for them to cover lights, CCTV cameras as well.
I am aware in some other locations that similar thefts have started as well sadly. But in general parts theft is also on the increase.
Did your father's X5 have Comfort Access or not? Was any glass on the ground where the car was parked?
Reality is some of the posters above have highlighted some of the ways it can be done, but there are inaccuracies:
1) Relay Theft - this is even faster than programming a key. The fastest I have seen is 12 seconds from the point of the guy going to the front door grabbing the keys signal and the other thief being in and started the car.
A poster above incorrectly stated this would only get you in the car that is wrong. The same flaw of keyless entry allows starting.
In theory a thief could use this for a vehicle with keyless start after entry as well, so even those with only "partial keyless" are at risk in some regards as well. Unfortunately there is as far as I am aware very few cars without keyless start now.
Many of these "devices" are about £300 - £400. Additionally in many cases they are modified signal devices like set top boxes, routers and other items. Most are from Eastern Europe in general.
Generally being done on Merc and BMW IMO.
2) OBD port - Was popular but look around it is not really all that common now. I agree it is a risk though and on certain vehicles still causes issues. It is less popular though as it costs more to buy the professional locksmith OBD tools from predominantly Eastern Europe, but also takes more time.
It also leaves the potential evidence of smashed glass with any fibres etc. (if the police had the time, budget and inclination obviously!).
If one brand is still likely to be done this way I would say Ford. Although there have been relay thefts on some Ford's as well.
3) Another one that is unfortunately becoming more common and is probably the most difficult to stop is simply using recovery or loaders. There has been some cases recently of cars disappearing over night no glass. But CCTV has revealed simply a few guys dragging it away or putting them on a loader.
4) Entry to the home - for certain cars this seems a popular MO. Unfortunately it appears most often with Audi S/RS or the obvious Golf R.
5) I suppose there is a fifth in inside job, which there has been some instances of recently as well.
One poster above mentioned one critical thing layering. From layering your home through to layering your car with additional security.
Don't think of security in one aspect, but a multi dimensional thing. Ultimately your obvious end game is to stop the "ease" in which it can be taken. Faraday pouches which need regular checking are useful, but not checked regularly can leak signal you may want to consider putting them in a metal lined tin, and then the bag as well.
However I will also point out that sadly it is far from just the whole vehicle being taken these days, certain vehicles sadly are having parts stolen which has exploded in some parts of Europe. Germany, Belgium, Sweden and few others have all had spates of part theft from vehicles, mostly again sadly from Eastern Europe with gangs stealing particular parts over the course of weeks or months. So bad was the problem in some parts whole dealership forecourts got targeted and had parts removed ( I believe there was one BMW dealership stripped of every steering wheel from the vehicles on the forecourt).
Some may or may not be aware of steering wheel theft, trim, computer (idrive, mmi etc.) theft. Steering wheels are expensive and so are replacing bits of idrive etc.
Unfortunately just before Christmas Kent was suffering a spate of early morning thefts of steering wheels from BMW's predominantly, but Mercedes, Audi and few others got targeted as well. Sadly a number of cars got written off, not because of the interior thefts, but the manner in which the thieves gained entry to the vehicles (one of the PH guys on here in North Kent had his 4 series written off with 14k of damage, I know of another M5 which did get repaired but the bill was something like £25k).
For now the spates in Kent have reduced due to the police throwing resources to get the pair, unfortunately one of them is still quote "out there", the other is now spending some time at the pleasure of HM. The frustrating thing for me is that Mr Lukosevicius (the one that got caught) was originally doing it in Sweden, they banned him 4 times before eventually stopping him on the fifth after numerous spates in Sweden of steering wheel theft (in one incident it is believed he targeted the owners X5 stole the steering wheel, idrive and few other bits and then stole the steering wheel from the 1 series courtesy car the owner had been given! FFS)
So where did he go? The UK FFS. The difference is the UK unlike many other countries does fit alarms and they did cause more damage as a result. It was not uncommon for them to cover lights, CCTV cameras as well.
I am aware in some other locations that similar thefts have started as well sadly. But in general parts theft is also on the increase.
Edited by Ninja59 on Thursday 19th July 07:17
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