RE: WLTP kills off entry-level Golf GTI
Discussion
i would expect that the loss of the manuel is temporary and the DSG is just being used to squeeze past the emissions regs. using a very tight configuration.
i would also expect that the power-loss from using a manuel to squeeze past the regs would have made the car unviable next to the DSG car.
i would also expect that the power-loss from using a manuel to squeeze past the regs would have made the car unviable next to the DSG car.
Carl_Manchester said:
i would expect that the loss of the manuel is temporary and the DSG is just being used to squeeze past the emissions regs. using a very tight configuration.
i would also expect that the power-loss from using a manuel to squeeze past the regs would have made the car unviable next to the DSG car.
If you think it's (DSG) being used is for emissions, why do you feel that's temporary? Emission regs seem to be getting ever more stringent, and the DSG or automatic boxes now are a fair bit more efficient than the manuals.i would also expect that the power-loss from using a manuel to squeeze past the regs would have made the car unviable next to the DSG car.
xjay1337 said:
That's it - this is the end of the performance car era.
That being said I think in terms of MOT test etc then the petrol particulate filter would be a lot easier to hide since petrols don't interently smoke.
I don't think it's even the end of the internal combustion performance era, not quite yet.That being said I think in terms of MOT test etc then the petrol particulate filter would be a lot easier to hide since petrols don't interently smoke.
Carl_Manchester said:
i would expect that the loss of the manuel is temporary and the DSG is just being used to squeeze past the emissions regs. using a very tight configuration.
i would also expect that the power-loss from using a manuel to squeeze past the regs would have made the car unviable next to the DSG car.
A lot of the rumours surrounding the MK8 GTI/R suggest it will employ a mild hybrid powertrain, and as such I'd imagine they'll only be available with DSG.i would also expect that the power-loss from using a manuel to squeeze past the regs would have made the car unviable next to the DSG car.
dunnoreally said:
On an almost-certainly-related note, you'll also notice that most the of big v8 saloons seem to have quietly dropped off configurators. Noticed this when I was dreaming about a Quattroporte GTS the other day, but there's no S8, XJR or v8 7er either (although the M760 hasn't gone anywhere, more's the better). V8 S classes can only be found when you try to configure a Maybach, too.
Against that backdrop, the loss of the lower-powered Golf gti's the least of my personal worries. I wonder when the legislators will find an excuse to attack performance EVs...
S8 - the new A8 has only been out for a few months so it might be a few more months until the S8 comes out. In europe etc I believe they offer it with the 4L V8 biturbo though at the minute in a lower state of tuneAgainst that backdrop, the loss of the lower-powered Golf gti's the least of my personal worries. I wonder when the legislators will find an excuse to attack performance EVs...
XJR is gone?
7 Series no ideaShiv_P said:
dunnoreally said:
On an almost-certainly-related note, you'll also notice that most the of big v8 saloons seem to have quietly dropped off configurators. Noticed this when I was dreaming about a Quattroporte GTS the other day, but there's no S8, XJR or v8 7er either (although the M760 hasn't gone anywhere, more's the better). V8 S classes can only be found when you try to configure a Maybach, too.
Against that backdrop, the loss of the lower-powered Golf gti's the least of my personal worries. I wonder when the legislators will find an excuse to attack performance EVs...
S8 - the new A8 has only been out for a few months so it might be a few more months until the S8 comes out. In europe etc I believe they offer it with the 4L V8 biturbo though at the minute in a lower state of tuneAgainst that backdrop, the loss of the lower-powered Golf gti's the least of my personal worries. I wonder when the legislators will find an excuse to attack performance EVs...
XJR is gone?
7 Series no ideaxjay1337 said:
That's it - this is the end of the performance car era.
It's not.Option A: Take it off sale, spend nothing modifying it to meet WLTP, but lose money by not selling the cars for 1 year.
Option B: Modify it and sell some cars.
Obviously B cost more than A and that's it.
The next GTI will be as fast or faster. It will make financial sense to spend the money on the emissions hardware for the 7-8 years the car will be on sale for.
Murphy16 said:
Technical question here.
All these new petrol particulate filters, where do they sit in the exhaust system? Will aftermarket exhaust manufacturers have to incorporate one into their end to end full system designs? Surely that'll push the prices up. And won't these particulate filters strangle the engine sound coming out the back of the exhaust?
So it'll now cost more to upgrade the exhaust system (one of the first things I've always done to a car) to liberate some more of that raw sound that's lacking from new performance cars.
The GPF is on the hot end system - it's likely Turbocharger - GPF - Catalyst - rest of exhaust/mufflers. So unless you're going for a FULL system, it won't matter.All these new petrol particulate filters, where do they sit in the exhaust system? Will aftermarket exhaust manufacturers have to incorporate one into their end to end full system designs? Surely that'll push the prices up. And won't these particulate filters strangle the engine sound coming out the back of the exhaust?
So it'll now cost more to upgrade the exhaust system (one of the first things I've always done to a car) to liberate some more of that raw sound that's lacking from new performance cars.
Edited by Murphy16 on Thursday 19th July 15:58
And yes, they will reduce sound a bit. Not as much as a muffler though.
E65Ross said:
Shiv_P said:
dunnoreally said:
On an almost-certainly-related note, you'll also notice that most the of big v8 saloons seem to have quietly dropped off configurators. Noticed this when I was dreaming about a Quattroporte GTS the other day, but there's no S8, XJR or v8 7er either (although the M760 hasn't gone anywhere, more's the better). V8 S classes can only be found when you try to configure a Maybach, too.
Against that backdrop, the loss of the lower-powered Golf gti's the least of my personal worries. I wonder when the legislators will find an excuse to attack performance EVs...
S8 - the new A8 has only been out for a few months so it might be a few more months until the S8 comes out. In europe etc I believe they offer it with the 4L V8 biturbo though at the minute in a lower state of tuneAgainst that backdrop, the loss of the lower-powered Golf gti's the least of my personal worries. I wonder when the legislators will find an excuse to attack performance EVs...
XJR is gone?
7 Series no ideacorozin said:
I can't understand how it is that VW are even selling any vanilla Golf GTis anymore. At almost £30k before options most buyers surely just find a few extra quid to buy a Golf-R instead.
Maybe some people have the money for either, but prefer the GTi, for various reasons. Given the multitude of cheap leases on the R at times, the money argument might actually be a moot point.Not sure I'd buy a base GTi before a PP equivalent though, unless circumstances dictated it, even though it seems most do. Then again, I wouldn't go DSG for love not money, which also seems to be against the norm.
DukeDickson said:
corozin said:
I can't understand how it is that VW are even selling any vanilla Golf GTis anymore. At almost £30k before options most buyers surely just find a few extra quid to buy a Golf-R instead.
Maybe some people have the money for either, but prefer the GTi, for various reasons. Given the multitude of cheap leases on the R at times, the money argument might actually be a moot point.Not sure I'd buy a base GTi before a PP equivalent though, unless circumstances dictated it, even though it seems most do. Then again, I wouldn't go DSG for love not money, which also seems to be against the norm.
I understand VW group as a whole are massively behind the curve on getting the necessary WLTP approvals done as they launch new models - to the point it's affecting their ability to sell new cars. Part of the issue, I believe, is that the facilities used by the group are all centralised in Germany for emissions work, and they ran late as well as really only being able to cope with a routine amount of testing not the massive hump of a start up of a new standard to test to.
I can see them chopping models from the range that have a lower life expectancy, rather than adding it to the long queue of overdue approvals.
GPFs were always going to result from the introduction of WLTP, given they're tested over a much broader range of operating conditions (still massively warmer than the average UK temperature!) so the peaks in pollutant emissions that weren't tested by NEDC are now part of the test, plus you need to give yourself some reassurance that when it's tested under RDE it isn't going to fail.....
GroundEffect said:
The GPF is on the hot end system - it's likely Turbocharger - GPF - Catalyst - rest of exhaust/mufflers. So unless you're going for a FULL system, it won't matter.
And yes, they will reduce sound a bit. Not as much as a muffler though.
What about the silencers that we use in the UK?And yes, they will reduce sound a bit. Not as much as a muffler though.
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