Dumb question - when do you use N in an auto?

Dumb question - when do you use N in an auto?

Author
Discussion

dzernski

122 posts

93 months

Friday 20th July 2018
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Stationary in traffic. In my car (American, so maybe not the most sophisticated) you can feel the release of load when you go from d and foot brake to neutral.

Hoofy

76,253 posts

281 months

Conscript

1,378 posts

120 months

Friday 20th July 2018
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sjg said:
Conscript said:
I know I'll get stick for this, but I use N when stationary at traffic lights for a while. Everyone else says just leave it in D with the foot-brake applied, and even the user's manual says to do this. But it just feels wrong to me - it's the equivalent of sitting still in a manual car with your foot on the clutch and first gear engaged, which I, and I'm sure others, were taught not to do (for safety reasons as well as mechanical sympathy). This is with a traditional torque converter auto.
That's exactly right for a torque converter auto. Most DSG variants (and similar from other manufacturers) don't engage the clutches when stopped with no throttle, so OK to leave in D with handbrake on.
Hoofy said:
I know it's doing no harm to leave it in Drive, but I think it's more of a safety thing, than a mechanical sympathy thing. For the same reason you shouldn't leave a manual car in gear while riding the clutch when waiting at lights - all it takes is a shunt from behind and if your foot comes off the clutch, the car may lurch forward. Same applies with an auto, except with the brake pedal.

I know in reality it's probably not a massive issue, but it just goes against my instinct to be sitting idle for an extended period, with the car essentially under power. So as long as it does little to no harm, I'll probably continue using N.

Nickbrapp

5,277 posts

129 months

Friday 20th July 2018
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paradigital said:
Sounds odd. My S-Tronic S3 will not attempt to load the clutchpack if it knows the handbrake is on.
Maybe it works on the s3 as that has a electronic handbrake? My leon and the yeti are traditional handbrakes

Lozw86

871 posts

131 months

Friday 20th July 2018
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I press P for park when stationary in traffic as this holds the car still. N would allow it to roll on an incline

I guess you would use N if the car was being towed?

vikingaero

10,256 posts

168 months

Friday 20th July 2018
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Hoofy said:
Doesn't matter what wavy hands American guy says. I will do it my way. Long stops at temporary traffic lights but with lights and/or a/c on, put it in N. Then I can have a break and take my foot off the pedal. There's a difference between a 30 second stop at lights or a 3-7-unknown stop at 3-4 way temporary lights.

It's like supermarket fuels vs. premium fuels - I will continue to put supermarket fuel in one car and premium fuel in another.

Sealed for life automatic transmissions says the manufacturer - I'll continue to have a fluid change at xx,000 miles.

BigMon

4,155 posts

128 months

Friday 20th July 2018
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When I put my old Volvo into D it feels like some little man (like those workers in the Fraggles) clunking a big lever and engaging GO.

Hence I always pop it into N when stopped at traffic lights or in traffic.

Conscript

1,378 posts

120 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
vikingaero said:
Doesn't matter what wavy hands American guy says
rofl

I like EE and his videos, but that made me smile biggrin

Hoofy

76,253 posts

281 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
Conscript said:
Hoofy said:
I know it's doing no harm to leave it in Drive, but I think it's more of a safety thing, than a mechanical sympathy thing. For the same reason you shouldn't leave a manual car in gear while riding the clutch when waiting at lights - all it takes is a shunt from behind and if your foot comes off the clutch, the car may lurch forward. Same applies with an auto, except with the brake pedal.

I know in reality it's probably not a massive issue, but it just goes against my instinct to be sitting idle for an extended period, with the car essentially under power. So as long as it does little to no harm, I'll probably continue using N.
There's no lurching when I lift my foot off the brake pedal in D. Any lurching will come from the car behind ramming into you. biggrin

Hoofy

76,253 posts

281 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
vikingaero said:
Hoofy said:
Doesn't matter what wavy hands American guy says. I will do it my way. Long stops at temporary traffic lights but with lights and/or a/c on, put it in N. Then I can have a break and take my foot off the pedal. There's a difference between a 30 second stop at lights or a 3-7-unknown stop at 3-4 way temporary lights.
Well, for longer stops, he says you might as well turn the engine off.

Car-Matt

1,923 posts

137 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
sjg said:
Conscript said:
I know I'll get stick for this, but I use N when stationary at traffic lights for a while. Everyone else says just leave it in D with the foot-brake applied, and even the user's manual says to do this. But it just feels wrong to me - it's the equivalent of sitting still in a manual car with your foot on the clutch and first gear engaged, which I, and I'm sure others, were taught not to do (for safety reasons as well as mechanical sympathy). This is with a traditional torque converter auto.
That's exactly right for a torque converter auto. Most DSG variants (and similar from other manufacturers) don't engage the clutches when stopped with no throttle, so OK to leave in D with handbrake on.
I would have thought it was the other way round since a torque converter doesn't have a clutch and a dsg does (two).........

Pica-Pica

13,621 posts

83 months

Friday 20th July 2018
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When stopped in a queue I usually use D with footbrake on. That will have two effects, brake lights on, but also engine may switch off (not an issue - mine restarts promptly).

Now if I want to not have rear brake lights on (long wait, nighttime), then I will put car in N and use the manual parking brake. But...engine will still run, so if there will be a long wait I switch the engine off by the button. Alternatively, I can simply switch engine off, and it will automatically go from D to P.

So, yes, I occasionally use N, perhaps once a month or so.

Toltec

7,159 posts

222 months

Friday 20th July 2018
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DapperDanMan said:
Parking on a slope I put it in Neutral and apply the hand brake and allow the car to rest on the brake. I then put it in Park. No strain on the parking lock of the gearbox then.
Not just me then.

Marcellus

7,111 posts

218 months

Friday 20th July 2018
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IIRC ADI advice is not to use a handbrake so you keep brake lights on but also if you are "liberaced" then the impact is worse as you are effectively a brick wall, whereas if you're using the footbrake you release and are shunted forward so impact damage from behind is less, the risk of whiplash is less, admittedly you'll damage the front of the car too but as the guy who hit you is paying for it who cares?

Limpet

6,293 posts

160 months

Friday 20th July 2018
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I use P at the lights if I'm going to be there a while. It's a convenient thumb button on the top of the selector, and it doesn't interfere with the stop/start system. The engine restarts as soon as I re-select D.

I must confess for short stops, I just leave it in D.

aeropilot

34,299 posts

226 months

Friday 20th July 2018
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Lozw86 said:
I press P for park when stationary in traffic as this holds the car still. N would allow it to roll on an incline
Suggest you read up on what mechanically is happening when you engage P, and then you might stop engaging it when stationary in traffic.....

0a

23,879 posts

193 months

Friday 20th July 2018
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It for when you want to rev the engine aggressively at traffic lights

Toltec

7,159 posts

222 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
Marcellus said:
IIRC ADI advice is not to use a handbrake so you keep brake lights on but also if you are "liberaced" then the impact is worse as you are effectively a brick wall, whereas if you're using the footbrake you release and are shunted forward so impact damage from behind is less, the risk of whiplash is less, admittedly you'll damage the front of the car too but as the guy who hit you is paying for it who cares?
Whiplash will be a greater risk if you don't have the brake on as the car you are in will accelerate more, then decelerate more violently if you hit the car in front. Better if you have a small hatch or seven seater with rear passengers a few inches from the tailgate though.

hornmeister

809 posts

90 months

Friday 20th July 2018
quotequote all
DCT gearbox on a Merc.

When stopped in traffic the car stays in D but I use the autohold feature which engages the handbrake and switches off the engine if the start stop is charged. Dunno if the brake lights are on as I'm always in my car when doing this. If brake lights are on and dazzling for the person behind then they need an eye test or to clean their windscreen. My suspicion is it isn't an issue it's just something people like to get worked up about becasue they incorrectly think the person in front is doing it to annoy them.

A touch of the accelerator and the engine starts up, electronic handbrake is automatically released and the car starts to move forward.

If I use P whilst stationary, then it switches the engine back on again. So the engine switches off, back on again and stays running unless I manually switch it off. Of course I'll then need to switch it back on again so it's used twice as much battery and more fuel.

Edited by hornmeister on Friday 20th July 13:07

BornRageFree

79 posts

71 months

Saturday 21st July 2018
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I leave it in D, and I put the handbrake on. The manual handbrake holds the car just fine so long as you don't fanny about with it! Means there is no chance of me getting rear-ended, my foot lifting off the brake and the car actively driving into the car in front. I did go through a spate of putting the gearbox in N or P, but found it was a hell of a faff to get my foot onto the brake, select the right gear, get the handbrake off and set off from a green light without some poor salesman trying to drive through me. Plus, as the lovely 'hands-waving american' from EE explained, it actually doesn't create much stress on the gearbox or torque converter, not compared to acceleration!
I refuse to sit at lights or stationary anywhere for an extended period of time of the foot brake. Partly because of the above, partly because I was taught to use the handbrake whenever appropriate by my driving instructor, and partly because it drives me mad sitting behind endless queues of traffic, all of whom have their brake lights blaring back at me. Granted, only the seriously bright LED ones actually dazzle, but (unless the vehicle in question is from the 80's or earlier, and hasn't been upgraded) all brake lights are designed to be bright and eye-catching. And I can't think of a single reason why anyone would want to subject anyone else to extended periods of bright light at close proximity. Personally, I prefer to be keeping my eyes open for for traffic movement, lights changing, or (god forbid) flashing blue lights, from which a sea of lazy oafs and MPV/SUV driving mothers, all sat on their foot brake, definitely distracts me. If anyone refuses to believe the dazzling story (yes, I've had my eyes checked, and I have perfectly natural 20/20 vision, with no issues), at least think about the emergency services.