RE: McLaren MP4-12C: Spotted
Discussion
I don’t think it’s more sensible than an R8 or 911. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing but I can spend £3k a year maintaining a car but not £10k. I know I can handle a 911, especially from gen 2 997, and would chance an r8 as you’d be unlucky to get a huge bill, but the Macca you have a lot of owners saying £5k warranty, £5k maintenance, or risk £18k gearbox which happened to someone I know, plus you really get hammered if you put miles on and 911s are a bit more suitable for use every day
IMHO the mac is in a different league completely to the 911 maybe with the exception of the gt2rs. And more exotic than a v10 r8. But the r8 gen 1 is the one I would have fwiw as that’s the right balance of sensible and exotic for me
IMHO the mac is in a different league completely to the 911 maybe with the exception of the gt2rs. And more exotic than a v10 r8. But the r8 gen 1 is the one I would have fwiw as that’s the right balance of sensible and exotic for me
Captain Smerc said:
TP321 said:
No proper super car is cheap to run..
What makes this so appealing however is that at £80k its very very cheap... For the same money you can have a F430, California, R8, 911 etc. These cars are not in the same league. Even though I hate to admit it, a 458 will be left for dead. Very few cars on the planet can keep up, and none of them are under £80k. So you have to look at both sides of the coin - you only live once.
I'm not a potential owner sadly , but are you sure a 458 would be left for dead , as you say ? I remember reading the comparison road tests at the time and the Mac was very good , but it weren't the winner .What makes this so appealing however is that at £80k its very very cheap... For the same money you can have a F430, California, R8, 911 etc. These cars are not in the same league. Even though I hate to admit it, a 458 will be left for dead. Very few cars on the planet can keep up, and none of them are under £80k. So you have to look at both sides of the coin - you only live once.
The mp4 was 0.1 sec quicker in the metrics, but Top Gear preferred the 458.
In saying that, the 458 was produced between 2009 - 2015, wheres the Mac was mid 2011 - 2014. Coming 2 years after the 458 against which it was apparently bench-marked, you could arguably say that for all that extra development time by a company invested in F1, and using forced induction versus a naturally aspirated 458, the 0.1 second advantage was not really such a great leap forwards in the whole scheme of things.
If anything, have a look what happened when Ferrari added turbo's to their car:
https://carbuzz.com/news/turbocharging-era-has-beg...
Even so, a GTR will happy run with these (458 / mp4-12c), and if you bought a Litchfield variant with full warranty support, then the GTR would be some way in front.
But back to this car...nah. Its not for investing, its for driving, and for spending big bills on. Go crazy.
big_rob_sydney said:
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/supercar/mclaren-...
The mp4 was 0.1 sec quicker in the metrics, but Top Gear preferred the 458.
In saying that, the 458 was produced between 2009 - 2015, wheres the Mac was mid 2011 - 2014. Coming 2 years after the 458 against which it was apparently bench-marked, you could arguably say that for all that extra development time by a company invested in F1, and using forced induction versus a naturally aspirated 458, the 0.1 second advantage was not really such a great leap forwards in the whole scheme of things.
If anything, have a look what happened when Ferrari added turbo's to their car:
https://carbuzz.com/news/turbocharging-era-has-beg...
Even so, a GTR will happy run with these (458 / mp4-12c), and if you bought a Litchfield variant with full warranty support, then the GTR would be some way in front.
But back to this car...nah. Its not for investing, its for driving, and for spending big bills on. Go crazy.
0.1 second is not a long time and not ‘left for dead’ territory but these cars are so fast that it’s starting to get to the point where tyres and gearboxes and physics are constraining the 0-60 times more so than power, there isn’t really much more performance left to aim for is there when cars are doing 0-60 in 3 secondsThe mp4 was 0.1 sec quicker in the metrics, but Top Gear preferred the 458.
In saying that, the 458 was produced between 2009 - 2015, wheres the Mac was mid 2011 - 2014. Coming 2 years after the 458 against which it was apparently bench-marked, you could arguably say that for all that extra development time by a company invested in F1, and using forced induction versus a naturally aspirated 458, the 0.1 second advantage was not really such a great leap forwards in the whole scheme of things.
If anything, have a look what happened when Ferrari added turbo's to their car:
https://carbuzz.com/news/turbocharging-era-has-beg...
Even so, a GTR will happy run with these (458 / mp4-12c), and if you bought a Litchfield variant with full warranty support, then the GTR would be some way in front.
But back to this car...nah. Its not for investing, its for driving, and for spending big bills on. Go crazy.
We all have different tastes, but for me the 458 was my dream car and I got to a point where I could afford to buy one and subsequently had a test drive...and what a disappointment...what a shame. It looked stunning, the engine made a good noise and it was fast in a straight line, but to me the interior was not cohesive or particularly good and the steering was far too light and nervous. If I`d had the opportunity to track it then I might have found it to be more playful etc. I got back in my Evora to go home and I thought apart from the relative lack of power, it was the better car to drive and a third of the price! I was disappointed although it stopped me spending £170k!
I tried a few other cars, a dealer would not let me drive a GT3 unless I guaranteed to buy it (err?), so eventually I thought I`d try a 12c. Initially with everything set to "normal" I thought oh a bit like a normal car, but then things were switched to sport and then track, and what a transformation. Oh yes, the interior is way better aswell...3 years later and it is still a special car and I cannot see any point in "upgrading" it...to what?
As for leaving a 458 for dead...bit strong I think, but I know from experience it is the faster car overall...both cornering and in a straight line.
Shame McLaren don`t have a long term strategy for supporting the product, which in turn would help their new car sales and brand.
I tried a few other cars, a dealer would not let me drive a GT3 unless I guaranteed to buy it (err?), so eventually I thought I`d try a 12c. Initially with everything set to "normal" I thought oh a bit like a normal car, but then things were switched to sport and then track, and what a transformation. Oh yes, the interior is way better aswell...3 years later and it is still a special car and I cannot see any point in "upgrading" it...to what?
As for leaving a 458 for dead...bit strong I think, but I know from experience it is the faster car overall...both cornering and in a straight line.
Shame McLaren don`t have a long term strategy for supporting the product, which in turn would help their new car sales and brand.
CTE said:
We all have different tastes, but for me the 458 was my dream car and I got to a point where I could afford to buy one and subsequently had a test drive...and what a disappointment...what a shame. It looked stunning, the engine made a good noise and it was fast in a straight line, but to me the interior was not cohesive or particularly good and the steering was far too light and nervous. If I`d had the opportunity to track it then I might have found it to be more playful etc. I got back in my Evora to go home and I thought apart from the relative lack of power, it was the better car to drive and a third of the price! I was disappointed although it stopped me spending £170k!
I tried a few other cars, a dealer would not let me drive a GT3 unless I guaranteed to buy it (err?), so eventually I thought I`d try a 12c. Initially with everything set to "normal" I thought oh a bit like a normal car, but then things were switched to sport and then track, and what a transformation. Oh yes, the interior is way better aswell...3 years later and it is still a special car and I cannot see any point in "upgrading" it...to what?
As for leaving a 458 for dead...bit strong I think, but I know from experience it is the faster car overall...both cornering and in a straight line.
Shame McLaren don`t have a long term strategy for supporting the product, which in turn would help their new car sales and brand.
A few people have made comments on the running costs. How have you found it?I tried a few other cars, a dealer would not let me drive a GT3 unless I guaranteed to buy it (err?), so eventually I thought I`d try a 12c. Initially with everything set to "normal" I thought oh a bit like a normal car, but then things were switched to sport and then track, and what a transformation. Oh yes, the interior is way better aswell...3 years later and it is still a special car and I cannot see any point in "upgrading" it...to what?
As for leaving a 458 for dead...bit strong I think, but I know from experience it is the faster car overall...both cornering and in a straight line.
Shame McLaren don`t have a long term strategy for supporting the product, which in turn would help their new car sales and brand.
Road tax £4/500..cant remember
Insurance £800 with Mannings...could go cheaper
MOT...£40/50 area
Service £1200 plus VAT.
Fuel 20 - 30 MPG...probably low 20`s most of the time!
I just had to have a seat sensor replaced which cost a ludicrous £2200...mostly labour removing and dismantling and replacing seat.
I have swiped off a couple of the plastic vanes from the underside...we have a very undulating drive from the house...the cost £48 each.
I do not subscribe to the extended warranty, but that is my choice. The only benefit is that you will not get an unexpected bill, but it will cost you for the privilege...and you can get the gearbox oil seal fixed, should you be unlucky enough to have an issue, for a lot less than £18k.
All in less than £5k p.a...but it would be wise to be prepared for a bigger bill...having said that I cannot see that if you have a good car and maintain it properly, including warming up and cooling down sensibly why there should be any major issues, if you use it reasonably regularly. Oil leaks and seal problems tend to occur when cars are not used enough. Also most issues will surely have surfaced by now with an older car.
Insurance £800 with Mannings...could go cheaper
MOT...£40/50 area
Service £1200 plus VAT.
Fuel 20 - 30 MPG...probably low 20`s most of the time!
I just had to have a seat sensor replaced which cost a ludicrous £2200...mostly labour removing and dismantling and replacing seat.
I have swiped off a couple of the plastic vanes from the underside...we have a very undulating drive from the house...the cost £48 each.
I do not subscribe to the extended warranty, but that is my choice. The only benefit is that you will not get an unexpected bill, but it will cost you for the privilege...and you can get the gearbox oil seal fixed, should you be unlucky enough to have an issue, for a lot less than £18k.
All in less than £5k p.a...but it would be wise to be prepared for a bigger bill...having said that I cannot see that if you have a good car and maintain it properly, including warming up and cooling down sensibly why there should be any major issues, if you use it reasonably regularly. Oil leaks and seal problems tend to occur when cars are not used enough. Also most issues will surely have surfaced by now with an older car.
CTE said:
Road tax £4/500..cant remember
Insurance £800 with Mannings...could go cheaper
MOT...£40/50 area
Service £1200 plus VAT.
Fuel 20 - 30 MPG...probably low 20`s most of the time!
I just had to have a seat sensor replaced which cost a ludicrous £2200...mostly labour removing and dismantling and replacing seat.
I have swiped off a couple of the plastic vanes from the underside...we have a very undulating drive from the house...the cost £48 each.
I do not subscribe to the extended warranty, but that is my choice. The only benefit is that you will not get an unexpected bill, but it will cost you for the privilege...and you can get the gearbox oil seal fixed, should you be unlucky enough to have an issue, for a lot less than £18k.
All in less than £5k p.a...but it would be wise to be prepared for a bigger bill...having said that I cannot see that if you have a good car and maintain it properly, including warming up and cooling down sensibly why there should be any major issues, if you use it reasonably regularly. Oil leaks and seal problems tend to occur when cars are not used enough. Also most issues will surely have surfaced by now with an older car.
£5k without the extended warranty on a £100k car. I do get that, but at the same time, using a car regularly does not mean materials science transcends to magic; old cars break down.Insurance £800 with Mannings...could go cheaper
MOT...£40/50 area
Service £1200 plus VAT.
Fuel 20 - 30 MPG...probably low 20`s most of the time!
I just had to have a seat sensor replaced which cost a ludicrous £2200...mostly labour removing and dismantling and replacing seat.
I have swiped off a couple of the plastic vanes from the underside...we have a very undulating drive from the house...the cost £48 each.
I do not subscribe to the extended warranty, but that is my choice. The only benefit is that you will not get an unexpected bill, but it will cost you for the privilege...and you can get the gearbox oil seal fixed, should you be unlucky enough to have an issue, for a lot less than £18k.
All in less than £5k p.a...but it would be wise to be prepared for a bigger bill...having said that I cannot see that if you have a good car and maintain it properly, including warming up and cooling down sensibly why there should be any major issues, if you use it reasonably regularly. Oil leaks and seal problems tend to occur when cars are not used enough. Also most issues will surely have surfaced by now with an older car.
You are a braver man that me in this pursuit.
Sorry if covered before, question re unexpected bills. Can live with depreciation and big servicing costs. Goes with territory. What has always worried me is the enormous unexpected bill after an M3 gearbox went and was thankfully covered under warranty, but nonetheless 11K from memory. So the McLaren warranty. Costly but all encompassing inc the gearbox issue people have mentioned?
s2000db said:
Or for twice the price, you can get a brand new top of the range car!!
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Are you getting commission from this?https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
When the gearbox goes pop and the repair costs as much as the car is realistically worth (says a man who's just spent £2k fixing the gearbox on a £600 car), what are the chances of it ending anywhere but a supercar breaker's yard? Turbo failures on these aren't unknown either.
My inclination would be to rip out the whole drivetrain, go to a Mercury SB4 V8 (quad-cam LS7, 750bhp N/A), a 6-speed manual and a proper LSD, even if that means ripping out half the interior and the troublesome hydraulics. You might then have something vaguely usable for track days... but then you might as well have an Ultima.
My inclination would be to rip out the whole drivetrain, go to a Mercury SB4 V8 (quad-cam LS7, 750bhp N/A), a 6-speed manual and a proper LSD, even if that means ripping out half the interior and the troublesome hydraulics. You might then have something vaguely usable for track days... but then you might as well have an Ultima.
RoverP6B said:
When the gearbox goes pop and the repair costs as much as the car is realistically worth (says a man who's just spent £2k fixing the gearbox on a £600 car), what are the chances of it ending anywhere but a supercar breaker's yard? Turbo failures on these aren't unknown either.
My inclination would be to rip out the whole drivetrain, go to a Mercury SB4 V8 (quad-cam LS7, 750bhp N/A), a 6-speed manual and a proper LSD, even if that means ripping out half the interior and the troublesome hydraulics. You might then have something vaguely usable for track days... but then you might as well have an Ultima.
Have you ever driven a McLaren? The engine and gearbox are so so good. Try one and report back. You’ll be finding the warranty costs too. I have never driven an auto flappy box as good as these on ANY car. Ever. Plus, even with a standard tune I bet it would outdrag your theoretical modified version.My inclination would be to rip out the whole drivetrain, go to a Mercury SB4 V8 (quad-cam LS7, 750bhp N/A), a 6-speed manual and a proper LSD, even if that means ripping out half the interior and the troublesome hydraulics. You might then have something vaguely usable for track days... but then you might as well have an Ultima.
RoverP6B said:
When the gearbox goes pop and the repair costs as much as the car is realistically worth (says a man who's just spent £2k fixing the gearbox on a £600 car), what are the chances of it ending anywhere but a supercar breaker's yard? Turbo failures on these aren't unknown either.
The end is neigh punters have been saying this since the early 80s and since the early 80s resourceful specialists have been keeping the complex cars on the road for reasonable money.Except for turbos, obviously once they go you have you scrap the whole thing rather than unbolt it and have it reconditioned by a knowledgeable and reasonably priced specialist...
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