Are labour antisemitic?
Discussion
Another day, another problem for a Jewish labour mp.
This really is getting quite worrying - I know we can laugh at the loony left, but when they stand a good chance of forming the next government with compo as the figurehead it is surely something that should concern us all?
A labour councillor recently made some comments about Jews drinking human blood.
2 Jewish MPs facing "show trials" in a comparative nano-second (look at how long it took to deliberate the Livingston issue).
Arbeit macht frei posted by another councillor on twitter.
A call for a final solution from yet another....
This really is getting quite worrying - I know we can laugh at the loony left, but when they stand a good chance of forming the next government with compo as the figurehead it is surely something that should concern us all?
A labour councillor recently made some comments about Jews drinking human blood.
2 Jewish MPs facing "show trials" in a comparative nano-second (look at how long it took to deliberate the Livingston issue).
Arbeit macht frei posted by another councillor on twitter.
A call for a final solution from yet another....
irocfan said:
Another day, another problem for a Jewish labour mp.
This really is getting quite worrying - I know we can laugh at the loony left, but when they stand a good chance of forming the next government with compo as the figurehead it is surely something that should concern us all?
A labour councillor recently made some comments about Jews drinking human blood.
2 Jewish MPs facing "show trials" in a comparative nano-second (look at how long it took to deliberate the Livingston issue).
Arbeit macht frei posted by another councillor on twitter.
A call for a final solution from yet another....
Would a fair comparison be to question "Are UKIP racist?"This really is getting quite worrying - I know we can laugh at the loony left, but when they stand a good chance of forming the next government with compo as the figurehead it is surely something that should concern us all?
A labour councillor recently made some comments about Jews drinking human blood.
2 Jewish MPs facing "show trials" in a comparative nano-second (look at how long it took to deliberate the Livingston issue).
Arbeit macht frei posted by another councillor on twitter.
A call for a final solution from yet another....
FWIW I don't think they are. I know quite a few Labour Councillors and Labour members and none have ever said anything or done anything to suggest they're anti-semitic. However that's only anecdotal evidence. Quite a few have made remarks about Israel and especially their policies, something which sometimes gets translated as anti-semitism by those who are pro-Israeli and pro-Settler.
The fundamental leftist ideology "We must protect the oppressed minorities" seems to break own when confronted with a minority whose members, for want of a better word, are in the main quite successful, wealthy and/or influential. They don't know what to do and there is an element of comedy value in watching the saga unfold.
I can't work out if Labour are antisemitic or not... there have been so many meetings, reviews, accusations, tweets, articles, splitting infinities etc it is just a blur. However I wouldn't expect in the event of a Labour government being elected there was any greater threat to any religious or racial group than exists now. I am much more concerned that the worst government anyone can remember are driving the country off a cliff (and not just related to Brexit) without any coherent opposition to call them to account, because they are mired in internal issues. They need to stop the navel gazing and start doing what they were elected to do.
How can they be? They paid for a fully indipendant review by a fuly indiepndnat labour party member, out of their own party funds, who found that no,they are not anti semetic. And they only gave the author a peerage to the house of lords for it.
As john mcdonnal said: we are anti racist and anti semetic
As john mcdonnal said: we are anti racist and anti semetic
t in the woods? Is there really enough Jewish people outside of London to make it worthwhile being anti-Semitic? I've lived in the midlands, northwest and Scotland and while I've come across a fair few Jewish people there's nothing particular about them that would make me think they were a homogenous group to be anti-anythinged. Is this just all about the ones in black hats with the dangly hair?
ScotHill said:
Is there really enough Jewish people outside of London to make it worthwhile being anti-Semitic? I've lived in the midlands, northwest and Scotland and while I've come across a fair few Jewish people there's nothing particular about them that would make me think they were a homogenous group to be anti-anythinged. Is this just all about the ones in black hats with the dangly hair?
It's about appealing to people that are anti-semitic. abzmike said:
I can't work out if Labour are antisemitic or not... there have been so many meetings, reviews, accusations, tweets, articles, splitting infinities etc it is just a blur. However I wouldn't expect in the event of a Labour government being elected there was any greater threat to any religious or racial group than exists now. I am much more concerned that the worst government anyone can remember are driving the country off a cliff (and not just related to Brexit) without any coherent opposition to call them to account, because they are mired in internal issues. They need to stop the navel gazing and start doing what they were elected to do.
Good point, Labour need to stop prating about trying (but failing) to defend their underlying hatred of anybody who has done well in life, and start to behave like an effective opposition. That the Conservatives are in a total mess over Brexit, and yet Labour are unable to make hay in the opinion polls shows Labour have lost their momentum.Momentum and the far left conflate their opposition to the actions of an Israeli government and jeopardises the State of Israel and its right to exist as a Jewish state, especially when they hold court and are empathetic with the likes of Hammas whose aim is to see an end to the State of Israel by violent actions.
There is an antipathy towards Israel that is voiced in strident terms that are anti semitic and repeat old tropes that are anti semitic.
By legitimising these tropes and anti Semitic views it allows those on the extreme left and right to give full rein to their hatred.
It is accepted that one can criticise an Israeli government and many Jews, in Israel and the diaspora do, so that argument of theirs is a red herring.
It is only 80 years ago that 6 million Jews, men, women and children were slaughtered in concentration camps so is it any wonder that for the present generation the spectre of that unspeakable horror still resonates on their psyche.
Israel to them represents a safe haven if such an atrocity should ever become apparent again so it is within that context that the State of Israel provides them with a sense of security.
The Israel/ Palestinian conflict is very complex and I feel no need to extrapolate on it in this post.
The great majority of Jews would embrace a peaceful solution to that problem that gives both the Palestinians and Israelis peace and security.
There is an antipathy towards Israel that is voiced in strident terms that are anti semitic and repeat old tropes that are anti semitic.
By legitimising these tropes and anti Semitic views it allows those on the extreme left and right to give full rein to their hatred.
It is accepted that one can criticise an Israeli government and many Jews, in Israel and the diaspora do, so that argument of theirs is a red herring.
It is only 80 years ago that 6 million Jews, men, women and children were slaughtered in concentration camps so is it any wonder that for the present generation the spectre of that unspeakable horror still resonates on their psyche.
Israel to them represents a safe haven if such an atrocity should ever become apparent again so it is within that context that the State of Israel provides them with a sense of security.
The Israel/ Palestinian conflict is very complex and I feel no need to extrapolate on it in this post.
The great majority of Jews would embrace a peaceful solution to that problem that gives both the Palestinians and Israelis peace and security.
It all comes down to very fine definitions... The IHRA definition has been adopted by the Labour party - but not in full.
The sticking point is whether questioning the legitimacy of the very existence of the Israeli state is anti-semitic or not.
Question the actions of the Israeli government, as you would the actions of any other state? No problem at all within the IHRA definition.
The sticking point is whether questioning the legitimacy of the very existence of the Israeli state is anti-semitic or not.
Question the actions of the Israeli government, as you would the actions of any other state? No problem at all within the IHRA definition.
TooMany2cvs said:
It all comes down to very fine definitions... The IHRA definition has been adopted by the Labour party - but not in full.
This is the bit I don't understand. The definition was presumably thrashed out in a way that is acceptable to all involved, so why can't the labour party sign up like anybody else? The Jewish population in the UK is tiny, so losing their vote will not make much difference in terms of MPs, but why carry on down this path?In Syria circa 350,000 people have been killed in the present conflict.
Libya and Iraq are failed states, many killed or displaced, due to the wars fought by the USA and the West, which has abandoned them to their sorry state.
Egypt is in a politically perilous condition, Saudi Arabia is conducting a vicious war with Yemen, Afghanisthan has terrible problems with the Taliban and a resurgence of ISIS.
However the most, if not all, condemnation and vitriol by Momentum and the far left in that region is directed towards Israel.
Libya and Iraq are failed states, many killed or displaced, due to the wars fought by the USA and the West, which has abandoned them to their sorry state.
Egypt is in a politically perilous condition, Saudi Arabia is conducting a vicious war with Yemen, Afghanisthan has terrible problems with the Taliban and a resurgence of ISIS.
However the most, if not all, condemnation and vitriol by Momentum and the far left in that region is directed towards Israel.
Edited by avinalarf on Monday 30th July 14:39
Biker 1 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
It all comes down to very fine definitions... The IHRA definition has been adopted by the Labour party - but not in full.
This is the bit I don't understand. The definition was presumably thrashed out in a way that is acceptable to all involved, so why can't the labour party sign up like anybody else? The Jewish population in the UK is tiny, so losing their vote will not make much difference in terms of MPs, but why carry on down this path?Biker 1 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
It all comes down to very fine definitions... The IHRA definition has been adopted by the Labour party - but not in full.
This is the bit I don't understand. The definition was presumably thrashed out in a way that is acceptable to all involved, so why can't the labour party sign up like anybody else? The Jewish population in the UK is tiny, so losing their vote will not make much difference in terms of MPs, but why carry on down this path?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff