Used cars not selling?
Discussion
SydneySE said:
I didn't know Perth was that different to Sydney & Melbourne. Even way back when I lived in Oz in 2005 I sold my lotus Elise privately for the then princely sum of $79K. I got paid via CBA Netbank same day.
Can be done if you're with the same bank. If not they wont guarantee anything. I've been with United (small credit union) NAB and then Citi. I haven't had an interbank transfer that didn't take overnight.Deep Thought said:
And if all M3s out there were identical and within the same distance of any given prospective buyer but they're not.
They vary by age, miles, condition, history, colour combination, spec, proximity to the buyer, etc.
I guarantee you if the new top price of any M3 out there was deemed to be £5K there'd be some that wont sell immediately due to the above, and someone would come along and say "too dear mate, i'll give you four grand. Cash. In your hand."
I agree with you and Smartypants, M3s are 20% over priced at the moment, maybe even more. They vary by age, miles, condition, history, colour combination, spec, proximity to the buyer, etc.
I guarantee you if the new top price of any M3 out there was deemed to be £5K there'd be some that wont sell immediately due to the above, and someone would come along and say "too dear mate, i'll give you four grand. Cash. In your hand."
They are 20% higher than they were 18 months ago, and they are 18 months older with more miles now too.
Same with many cars.
I paid £13750 for a 2012 E350 estate 2.5 years ago, had 70k miles on it nearly.
I sold that E350 last month for £11750 with 115k miles on it.
I found my mate a E92 M3 2 years ago, 58 plate with 81k mile on it and he paid £15800 for it. He swapped that for a C350 estate a couple of months back and with a smidge under 100k on the clock and he got £14.2k from a dealer.
The dealer had it up for £16950 and sold it for £16500.
The dealer is a customer of mine hence how I know.
He did it on finance for the guy, with £1000 down he said it was £485 a month over 36 months.
Now, that is the same price as some of the deals on a new M3, not a 10 year old 100k mile one.
That to me make the 10 year old one too expensive for most, you will be left with the buyers who simply want to know they own the car after they have finished paying the finance.
I looked at a Melbourne Red E92 with 118k miles on it 3 years ago that was up for £13.5k, it was actually a really nice car and if I could have moved my car on quicker I would have had it, no one wanted it as it was 'rocket ship' mileage, but the thing drove really well and was really tight still.
Used prices don't make sense against finance deals on new, and I reckon that is why sales are stalling. Prices have gone up in the last 2-3 years too, and people are aware of that.
That 10 year old £16k car could, very quickly be a 12 year old £8k car, that is a lot to lose in 2 years on a 10 year old car.
Certain cars do seem to have stopped depreciating, that's for sure.
Been considering changing my E87 130i for an E91 330d because the 32mpg average from the 130i, coupled with a long commute and a 350 mile tank range is making the commute more difficult than it could be.
I had a 2009 E91 325d before. I paid £12k for it 3-4 yrs ago on about 50k miles. I sold it for £10k privately after a year and 15k miles. Thought i'd done quite well on that. But similar 325d/330d are still in the £8k-£12k bracket and don't seem to be shifting down.
130i are really firming up too now. They only drop below £5k if they've got 150k+ miles on them. Anything with sub-80k miles is up for £7k+, yet these are 10-12 year old cars now! Plus you can get an M135i for £14k and that'll be at least 5 yrs newer!
Been considering changing my E87 130i for an E91 330d because the 32mpg average from the 130i, coupled with a long commute and a 350 mile tank range is making the commute more difficult than it could be.
I had a 2009 E91 325d before. I paid £12k for it 3-4 yrs ago on about 50k miles. I sold it for £10k privately after a year and 15k miles. Thought i'd done quite well on that. But similar 325d/330d are still in the £8k-£12k bracket and don't seem to be shifting down.
130i are really firming up too now. They only drop below £5k if they've got 150k+ miles on them. Anything with sub-80k miles is up for £7k+, yet these are 10-12 year old cars now! Plus you can get an M135i for £14k and that'll be at least 5 yrs newer!
gizlaroc said:
I paid £13750 for a 2012 E350 estate 2.5 years ago, had 70k miles on it nearly.
I sold that E350 last month for £11750 with 115k miles on it.
Both those prices seem quite extreme - did you benefit when buying as no-one wanting petrol, and when selling as everyone wanted petrol?I sold that E350 last month for £11750 with 115k miles on it.
I get MCN (motorcycle news) which has just issued it's PCP best summer deals supplement. What is interesting is that in the PCP pro & cons section they are know warning that if the monthly cost is ridiculously low or the guaranteed residual high then the usual deposit for the next purchase from extra residual might not be there. They actually comment on the fact this is happening in instances of PCP deals on cars.
The pack of cards issue with PCP is that once the deposit is needed to be found at renewal in addition to the monthly cost, the cost of change (which is the factor most rely on) becomes less appealing.
I don't know the facts on second hand car pricing generally but BMW 520d estates were a lot cheaper through certain main dealers 6 months ago than similar age A6 avant 2.0 diesel cars when I was looking 4 months ago. Decided to run my 7 year old be a Octavia estate another year as it owes me nothing, has minor repair bills so far certainly not the thousands mentioned by some.
It's always informed choice that should be used when looking at financing anything, zero % or deposit paid PCP can be a great way of going, but always be prepared to fulfil your commitment and then walk away. As far as likening PCP to mortgages it's like an interest only mortgage, except the house is more likely to appreciate overtime but you are responsible for the maintenance and repairs on the house! Both get given back or refinanced at the end of the term, or the keys handed back
The pack of cards issue with PCP is that once the deposit is needed to be found at renewal in addition to the monthly cost, the cost of change (which is the factor most rely on) becomes less appealing.
I don't know the facts on second hand car pricing generally but BMW 520d estates were a lot cheaper through certain main dealers 6 months ago than similar age A6 avant 2.0 diesel cars when I was looking 4 months ago. Decided to run my 7 year old be a Octavia estate another year as it owes me nothing, has minor repair bills so far certainly not the thousands mentioned by some.
It's always informed choice that should be used when looking at financing anything, zero % or deposit paid PCP can be a great way of going, but always be prepared to fulfil your commitment and then walk away. As far as likening PCP to mortgages it's like an interest only mortgage, except the house is more likely to appreciate overtime but you are responsible for the maintenance and repairs on the house! Both get given back or refinanced at the end of the term, or the keys handed back
Sheepshanks said:
Both those prices seem quite extreme - did you benefit when buying as no-one wanting petrol, and when selling as everyone wanted petrol?
Not really, the E350cdi prices are doing similar. Same with BMW F11 5 series.
Just seems that right now used car prices have firmed up, a bit too much.
I have been looking for an F11 to replace my E61, as I said earlier in the thread, many are the same price as 2 years ago for a 2011/12, in fact the majority, but the same cars are sat there from when I was looking 3 months ago. Then you have the ones at £1500-2000 cheaper so the £8-9k price and they go within a day or 2.
That to me tells me that although the market is saying they are worth £12-13k, because the dealers need stock and are over paying at auction, the reality is the consumer doesn't think they are worth that, as they are not selling at these higher prices.
I had looked at another E Class and they seem the same. Expensive ones sit there for months, ones a little cheaper are snapped up.
[quote=buyer&seller]
Look beyond your feet infront of you. We'll have this conversation post Brexit when interest rates have 'changed'. Sa Calobra said:
Wait a year and you'll be able to walk into a dealer and 'make an offer 15-20% under their asking price. It'll become a buyer's power again.
You can do it today, next week, next month or next year, but it'll get you absolutely no where, utter nonsense. When we left the exchange mechanism (black Wednesday etc) things changed. That'll be minor to leaving alot more than then.
gizlaroc said:
That to me tells me that although the market is saying they are worth £12-13k, because the dealers need stock and are over paying at auction, the reality is the consumer doesn't think they are worth that, as they are not selling at these higher prices.
Slightly back to front. It's the market that sets the selling price ( in other words what a buyer is prepared to pay ),and the dealer works out how much to pay for the car from that selling price.If there are cars out there that appear overpriced then the dealer obviously believes that someone out there is prepared to pay that price. If the car isnt selling then the dealer may be wrong. Only time will tell, obviously if you believe that the car is overpriced then you have no obligation to go and view it.
gizlaroc said:
Not really, the E350cdi prices are doing similar.
Same with BMW F11 5 series.
Just seems that right now used car prices have firmed up, a bit too much.
I have been looking for an F11 to replace my E61, as I said earlier in the thread, many are the same price as 2 years ago for a 2011/12, in fact the majority, but the same cars are sat there from when I was looking 3 months ago. Then you have the ones at £1500-2000 cheaper so the £8-9k price and they go within a day or 2.
....
I was looking at the start of the year, found a 2012 520d Msport (touring, medium spec, at a BMW dealership).Same with BMW F11 5 series.
Just seems that right now used car prices have firmed up, a bit too much.
I have been looking for an F11 to replace my E61, as I said earlier in the thread, many are the same price as 2 years ago for a 2011/12, in fact the majority, but the same cars are sat there from when I was looking 3 months ago. Then you have the ones at £1500-2000 cheaper so the £8-9k price and they go within a day or 2.
....
Haggled with the dealer (like a demented beast) and the best I could get off was £150 (on a £12.8k car)
Dealer just refused to budge, saying stock like this was in high demand, guess he must have been right, as I stumped up the price he wanted.
- Having 12 Months BMW warranty, and a fully prepared retail car...was worth the extra £1,500 to £2,000 more than the private cars in Autotrader.
Seems Q2 used car sales were strong in the UK
SMMT used car data said:
Over 2 million used cars sold in Q2, as UK market stays strong, down just -0.4% year on year.
Sales of ultra-low and zero emission cars up 25.3%, with 26,832 changing hands, as diesel demand grows 3.2%.
Superminis still top used buy, with small and medium-sized family cars second and third.
Sales of ultra-low and zero emission cars up 25.3%, with 26,832 changing hands, as diesel demand grows 3.2%.
Superminis still top used buy, with small and medium-sized family cars second and third.
The current state of used car prices is in many ways a result of WBAC.
In the past, the normal practice was that the market determined the value of a car. The problem now is mainly due to stock supply and over-pricing.
Less than five years ago, you could buy just about any car where the traditional value of the vehicle was a lot less than where they are now. I remember cars aged 7-10 years old such as BMW X5's (E53) going for less than 12k, BMW M3's going for less than 15k, a 911 C4S around 20k etc etc. Then, very quickly used car values shot through the roof. I mean, they shot for the stars in some cases.
The better end of the used car market such as the cars mentioned above became unobtainable. An X5 became so expensive you just said no. M3's were going for over £20k for the good cars and then even more. And finally a 911 996 model is now the price of a 997 and even then some are twice or even three times the price they used to be. The 'collective, sought after and very rare' became exactly that.
Every man and his dog was pumping up the price because there source was making them do it. Margins were no longer existent on the old price structure.
Then the mindset kicks in across the board (including the punter) and everyone has the belief there car is worth more. Some cars sold as well at the crazy high prices and some still do, however the market is not in agreement. Things need to change as its not healthy. So who is going to start the ball rolling by reducing there car 5k...
In the past, the normal practice was that the market determined the value of a car. The problem now is mainly due to stock supply and over-pricing.
Less than five years ago, you could buy just about any car where the traditional value of the vehicle was a lot less than where they are now. I remember cars aged 7-10 years old such as BMW X5's (E53) going for less than 12k, BMW M3's going for less than 15k, a 911 C4S around 20k etc etc. Then, very quickly used car values shot through the roof. I mean, they shot for the stars in some cases.
The better end of the used car market such as the cars mentioned above became unobtainable. An X5 became so expensive you just said no. M3's were going for over £20k for the good cars and then even more. And finally a 911 996 model is now the price of a 997 and even then some are twice or even three times the price they used to be. The 'collective, sought after and very rare' became exactly that.
Every man and his dog was pumping up the price because there source was making them do it. Margins were no longer existent on the old price structure.
Then the mindset kicks in across the board (including the punter) and everyone has the belief there car is worth more. Some cars sold as well at the crazy high prices and some still do, however the market is not in agreement. Things need to change as its not healthy. So who is going to start the ball rolling by reducing there car 5k...
I've been looking at used, large family estate cars.
The asking prices for the usual suspects seem surprisingly high for medium and lower powered ones. Given the number of new cars out there, I'd expected supply to be huge. Maybe SUVS are more common now?
5-15 years ago used cars 1-3 years old could be bought quite cheaply and prices didn't appear to rise much over that period.
I do wonder if typical buyers at dealers are becoming blind to total cost and only seeing a monthly payment.
The asking prices for the usual suspects seem surprisingly high for medium and lower powered ones. Given the number of new cars out there, I'd expected supply to be huge. Maybe SUVS are more common now?
5-15 years ago used cars 1-3 years old could be bought quite cheaply and prices didn't appear to rise much over that period.
I do wonder if typical buyers at dealers are becoming blind to total cost and only seeing a monthly payment.
Wooda80 said:
gizlaroc said:
That to me tells me that although the market is saying they are worth £12-13k, because the dealers need stock and are over paying at auction, the reality is the consumer doesn't think they are worth that, as they are not selling at these higher prices.
Slightly back to front. It's the market that sets the selling price ( in other words what a buyer is prepared to pay ),and the dealer works out how much to pay for the car from that selling price.If there are cars out there that appear overpriced then the dealer obviously believes that someone out there is prepared to pay that price. If the car isnt selling then the dealer may be wrong. Only time will tell, obviously if you believe that the car is overpriced then you have no obligation to go and view it.
They are all saying that good stock is hard to get, so prices at auction are high, yet customers don't seem to want to pay what the going rate is. So stock seems to be sitting there for far longer than they would like.
I'm trying to sell my girlfriend's 2007 Toyota Auris at the moment. It's in excellent condition inside out, full Toyota service history, 81k miles, the highest spec trim level. It's up for around £2.5k and has been advertised since Saturday. Not one single bit of interest so far. Do I just need to be patient? Is the only reason cars like this don't sell because they're priced too high?
Howard- said:
I'm trying to sell my girlfriend's 2007 Toyota Auris at the moment. It's in excellent condition inside out, full Toyota service history, 81k miles, the highest spec trim level. It's up for around £2.5k and has been advertised since Saturday. Not one single bit of interest so far. Do I just need to be patient? Is the only reason cars like this don't sell because they're priced too high?
Be patient!Dealers expect that a car may be with them for months before they find a buyer and you are expecting it to be gone within 3 days
If only it was always that easy!
Howard- said:
I'm trying to sell my girlfriend's 2007 Toyota Auris at the moment. It's in excellent condition inside out, full Toyota service history, 81k miles, the highest spec trim level. It's up for around £2.5k and has been advertised since Saturday. Not one single bit of interest so far. Do I just need to be patient? Is the only reason cars like this don't sell because they're priced too high?
Not necessarily too high, more that the pool of people who want an 11-year-old Auris is pretty limited. I suspect if you find the right person, the price won't be the issue, but condition will.The other issue is that as it's a (relatively) cheap old Toyota, people aren't going to travel 250 miles to see it. So you're restricted to a that small pool of people who want an 11-y-o Auris and who live within (probably) 25 miles. Great if you're in London/Manchester etc, not so good if you're in North Wales.
gizlaroc said:
But speaking to dealers locally, they are agreeing.
They are all saying that good stock is hard to get, so prices at auction are high, yet customers don't seem to want to pay what the going rate is. So stock seems to be sitting there for far longer than they would like.
What defines "good stock" and "bad stock"? Why is good stock in short supply?They are all saying that good stock is hard to get, so prices at auction are high, yet customers don't seem to want to pay what the going rate is. So stock seems to be sitting there for far longer than they would like.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff