RE: BMW 330i M Sport prototype: Driven
Discussion
R400TVR said:
A 3 series which is bigger than a 5 of a few years back? Why? If you need the extra space, but a 5. The 3 started as a compact saloon and should stay that way.
I've also given up with BMW being a sports saloon maker. Auto only? Sad. A 4cyl in place of the 6? Sadder. It can't all be down to market demand, surely.
The pinnacle of the 3 was the e46. Right size for the road, sporty in the right way and good looking. I'm still looking for a a good 330i or 330d.
When you say "a few years" do you mean "a quarter of a century ago"?I've also given up with BMW being a sports saloon maker. Auto only? Sad. A 4cyl in place of the 6? Sadder. It can't all be down to market demand, surely.
The pinnacle of the 3 was the e46. Right size for the road, sporty in the right way and good looking. I'm still looking for a a good 330i or 330d.
Does anyone know the dimensions of this new model?
Also, you state "a 4 cyl in place of the 6?" This isn't the case, they have a 340i which is a straight 6.
Edited by E65Ross on Tuesday 21st August 11:10
daveco said:
+1 compare the E46 design to the newest models, granted the F32 is not a bad looking coupe, just overstyled and 'pinched' like most designs these days.
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-1The E46 Coupe to me was always a characterless fat blob, a cross between the lithe E36 Coupe and a fat labrador. The 4 Series Coupe is such a pretty, elegant design and a return to form.
E65Ross said:
R400TVR said:
A 3 series which is bigger than a 5 of a few years back? Why? If you need the extra space, but a 5. The 3 started as a compact saloon and should stay that way.
I've also given up with BMW being a sports saloon maker. Auto only? Sad. A 4cyl in place of the 6? Sadder. It can't all be down to market demand, surely.
The pinnacle of the 3 was the e46. Right size for the road, sporty in the right way and good looking. I'm still looking for a a good 330i or 330d.
When you say "a few years" do you mean "a quarter of a century ago"?I've also given up with BMW being a sports saloon maker. Auto only? Sad. A 4cyl in place of the 6? Sadder. It can't all be down to market demand, surely.
The pinnacle of the 3 was the e46. Right size for the road, sporty in the right way and good looking. I'm still looking for a a good 330i or 330d.
Does anyone know the dimensions of this new model?
Also, you state "a 4 cyl in place of the 6?" This isn't the case, they have a 340i which is a straight 6.
Edited by E65Ross on Tuesday 21st August 11:10
And 6-cyl engines in mid to low models are no more. BMW have arguably hung onto them for longer than most, and still have a number of 6-cyl option available.
Ares said:
E65Ross said:
R400TVR said:
A 3 series which is bigger than a 5 of a few years back? Why? If you need the extra space, but a 5. The 3 started as a compact saloon and should stay that way.
I've also given up with BMW being a sports saloon maker. Auto only? Sad. A 4cyl in place of the 6? Sadder. It can't all be down to market demand, surely.
The pinnacle of the 3 was the e46. Right size for the road, sporty in the right way and good looking. I'm still looking for a a good 330i or 330d.
When you say "a few years" do you mean "a quarter of a century ago"?I've also given up with BMW being a sports saloon maker. Auto only? Sad. A 4cyl in place of the 6? Sadder. It can't all be down to market demand, surely.
The pinnacle of the 3 was the e46. Right size for the road, sporty in the right way and good looking. I'm still looking for a a good 330i or 330d.
Does anyone know the dimensions of this new model?
Also, you state "a 4 cyl in place of the 6?" This isn't the case, they have a 340i which is a straight 6.
Edited by E65Ross on Tuesday 21st August 11:10
And 6-cyl engines in mid to low models are no more. BMW have arguably hung onto them for longer than most, and still have a number of 6-cyl option available.
havoc said:
...surely can't help but see the F80 motor as a clear step backwards in all regards except mpg:-
- sounds a lot worse;
- power delivery is less progressive, leading to real traction issues in anything other than ideal conditions;
- throttle-response isn't as good, nor as linear.
Point-to-point it's a bloody effective thing (traction aside), so the first camp will be happy. But unless you're a car journo on someone else's insurance, or a Troy Queef wannabe, very few buyers enjoy a car that wants to oversteer on a regular basis, certainly not when it's on the car's terms not the driver's.
I can't help but feel the F80 was a bad example for you to use, as to my mind Merc have done a much more effective job in going FI with the new 4.0 V8, which manages to retain much of the character and similar driveability to the outgoing 6.2.
You either haven't driven a Comp Pack M3/4 or have and not understood it. - sounds a lot worse;
- power delivery is less progressive, leading to real traction issues in anything other than ideal conditions;
- throttle-response isn't as good, nor as linear.
Point-to-point it's a bloody effective thing (traction aside), so the first camp will be happy. But unless you're a car journo on someone else's insurance, or a Troy Queef wannabe, very few buyers enjoy a car that wants to oversteer on a regular basis, certainly not when it's on the car's terms not the driver's.
I can't help but feel the F80 was a bad example for you to use, as to my mind Merc have done a much more effective job in going FI with the new 4.0 V8, which manages to retain much of the character and similar driveability to the outgoing 6.2.
The power delivery is progressive, predictable and pretty constant over a wide power band. On road or track wet and dry I haven't had any traction issues over and above what you might expect from a 450bhp rear drive saloon. I'd be more afraid of hitting an NA 'power band' (a la S2000) at a compromised moment than I would the F80 M3 spooling up early doors.
As for throttle response, it's as good as I've experienced from a turbo. B18C or B16 good? Nope, but not any worse than DBW NA straight 6 throttles employed by BMW.
It's a good example to pick, the comparison between V8 NA in the E90 M3 and the straight 6 in the F80, precisely because the only thing the V8 does better than the blown 6 is sound good.
Ares said:
Cars are getting bigger, but most by 1-2% if that as each generation goes by.
Length-wise, agree 100%...it's not as much as people think.But as mentioned above, some of that is disguised by the less-protruding bumpers of the current and prior generation cars, and of course you've got the ever-increasing girth of cars to contend with, as well as (in some cases) increasing height.
So all-told cars ARE taking up more visual space, and more parking space...
PS - just checked - F30 saloon is only 1/3 of the way in length between E46 and E39 (which are ~450mm different)...so even if ~100mm of the difference is the E39's bumpers, there's still ~200mm of extra 'body' in the E39 vs the F30. Interestingly though the F30 is wider (and taller) than the E39...
daveco said:
+1 compare the E46 design to the newest models, granted the F32 is not a bad looking coupe, just overstyled and 'pinched' like most designs these days.
Panels curved in one direction only on the E46 plus terrible difference in shutlines above the headlight? Although at least the grille is part of the bonnet.havoc said:
Ares said:
Cars are getting bigger, but most by 1-2% if that as each generation goes by.
Length-wise, agree 100%...it's not as much as people think.But as mentioned above, some of that is disguised by the less-protruding bumpers of the current and prior generation cars, and of course you've got the ever-increasing girth of cars to contend with, as well as (in some cases) increasing height.
So all-told cars ARE taking up more visual space, and more parking space...
PS - just checked - F30 saloon is only 1/3 of the way in length between E46 and E39 (which are ~450mm different)...so even if ~100mm of the difference is the E39's bumpers, there's still ~200mm of extra 'body' in the E39 vs the F30. Interestingly though the F30 is wider (and taller) than the E39...
janesmith1950 said:
havoc said:
...surely can't help but see the F80 motor as a clear step backwards in all regards except mpg:-
- sounds a lot worse;
- power delivery is less progressive, leading to real traction issues in anything other than ideal conditions;
- throttle-response isn't as good, nor as linear.
Point-to-point it's a bloody effective thing (traction aside), so the first camp will be happy. But unless you're a car journo on someone else's insurance, or a Troy Queef wannabe, very few buyers enjoy a car that wants to oversteer on a regular basis, certainly not when it's on the car's terms not the driver's.
I can't help but feel the F80 was a bad example for you to use, as to my mind Merc have done a much more effective job in going FI with the new 4.0 V8, which manages to retain much of the character and similar driveability to the outgoing 6.2.
You either haven't driven a Comp Pack M3/4 or have and not understood it. - sounds a lot worse;
- power delivery is less progressive, leading to real traction issues in anything other than ideal conditions;
- throttle-response isn't as good, nor as linear.
Point-to-point it's a bloody effective thing (traction aside), so the first camp will be happy. But unless you're a car journo on someone else's insurance, or a Troy Queef wannabe, very few buyers enjoy a car that wants to oversteer on a regular basis, certainly not when it's on the car's terms not the driver's.
I can't help but feel the F80 was a bad example for you to use, as to my mind Merc have done a much more effective job in going FI with the new 4.0 V8, which manages to retain much of the character and similar driveability to the outgoing 6.2.
The power delivery is progressive, predictable and pretty constant over a wide power band. On road or track wet and dry I haven't had any traction issues over and above what you might expect from a 450bhp rear drive saloon. I'd be more afraid of hitting an NA 'power band' (a la S2000) at a compromised moment than I would the F80 M3 spooling up early doors.
As for throttle response, it's as good as I've experienced from a turbo. B18C or B16 good? Nope, but not any worse than DBW NA straight 6 throttles employed by BMW.
It's a good example to pick, the comparison between V8 NA in the E90 M3 and the straight 6 in the F80, precisely because the only thing the V8 does better than the blown 6 is sound good.
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